Thanks, mb.

I did an autocross in Hawaii this past summer and I drove a buddy's '03 MCS. He had PSS9s on it and some other goodies. That car was very nice to drive!

Where in LA are you?

Edit: Sorry, I thought you were in LA. Now I see that you are in NJ!

 

Gus,

IMO, you may end up regretting selling your 933 for an MCS. The 993 is a special 911. Although it doesn't have the pure rawness of an earlier 911, like an SC or Carrera, it still has enough to keep that pure 911 feel to it. It's also a wonderfully built car, too. Good luck.

Rich

 

I have never owned or driven a Porsche. I feel intrigued about them, but those cars are outside of my reach. To me the R53 is as close as you can get to get a little taste of the Porsche driving experience for thousands and thousands less.

I personally never cared for the Boxster or Cayman. Those cars, visually, don't do anything for me. If I ever decide to bite the bullet and get a Porsche, I'll get the real article and get a 911 derivative.

But honestly I might find myself behind the wheel of a Lotus Esprit if that ever happens.

 

I originally bought my '04 MCS to be my daily driver to save the miles on my '97 993. I have driven the new Porsches (refined appliances) that do not in my opinion have the character (shortcomings and all) of the aircooled Porsches of the past. The 1st Gen MCS has that rawness and character that I enjoy in my 993 that I believe has been compromised on the newest generation of more refined MINI's. It's intereseting to see how many of us have similary automotive focus/interests...as I am also waiting in the wings to sample the BMW 135i as a suitable substitute for both the Porsche and the MINI if my deposit toward an M3 sedan is withdrawn after I test drive one. By the time that the must have options are added to a 135i, the car will be at $42K + fees. At that price a reasonably discounted 335i can be had similarly equipped with a higher level of interior quality.

 

It's interesting that you're considering BMW products. They have even more gratuitous automation and GT-type refinements than Porsches.

Edit: Hopefully the M3 will be an exception!

 

Agreed on both comments. It's also interesting how upset people get when this sentiment is portrayed in the various R56 vs. R53 threads. Yes, I get it, we're all Mini owners, and that is great, but to a lot of us, the cars offer different experiences. I never knew the same discussion was being had on the porsche front, too.

I drove a 993 turbo once. Whoa!

mb

 

They are out of my reach too, very far, as are most all cars I lust after ...with the exception of the MCS. For me, this is a big part of what makes the R53 so special ...it offers so much for so little.

I'm not one for dreams that are unlikely to come true ...that's why I dreampt about an MCS from for 5 years..

dean.

 

mb,

Yeah, you'd be surprised at the division between the Porsche ranks, too. I think one of the biggest ones is between 993 & 996 owners - last generation of the aircooled 911s versus the waterpumpers, raw versus refined, etc. For me, I never cared for the 996s except for the second generation of the 996 GT3 (2004 & 2005). In fact, I wouldn't hesitate at all to trade my 993 for that one.

I see a similar thing here between the R53 & R56. Personally, even though the R56 may be a better car on paper, I prefer the look & soul of the R53.

Cheers.

 

the sound and feel (and bulletproof reliability) of the 993 make it a much better car than the 996!!! fun to drive, raw experience, driver skill required - you name it!!!! even though the 997, 987 and c7 are more refined cars, they are amazing and can be pushed to crazy limits (but with nice creature comforts).

as mentioned above, and i completely agree - bmw has a much more appeal to every man feel, even in their sports cars (m3, 330, z series) the luxury, ultimate driving machine, component outweighs the pure sports car feel. you get into a porsche and you feel like you're in a cockpit. you get into a bmw and you feel like you're in a really nice car that can you can push to amazing limits (trust me - i've schooled a fuddy in his 996 c4s down the California mountain roads before getting rid of my 346 330ci zhp - he should have killed me in the corners and the straights). i haven't quite decided what the MCS feels like when i get into it (not quite a cockpit - certainly not a refined vehicle) - but it definitely has abilities!

i believe that an MCS with the proper suspension tuning, drivetrain and engine mods and better seats could achieve a feel that rivals the pure and raw appeal of a 993.

 

I love my 993 and would never consider a 996 as an alternative. The BMW M3 sedan or used M5 has 3 seats in the back that I will put to frequent use with my big family. That said, the BMW products will never have the provenance that comes through in the driving experience of the most thoughly engineered air/oil cooled roadgoing Porsches (993 & deriviatives).

I actually enjoy driving my R53 more than the 993 as I believe very few if any cars come close to the stock, out of the box driving dynamics that the R53 possesses (at least for similar money).

 

This is a great thread. I'm happy to hear that the visceral MCS experience can be as enjoyable (though different) as Caymans & other higher-tier toys. I've always loved Porsches (except for 924 and 928 models), but keep my distance because of maintenance costs.

The way I figure it, if you can have tons of fun driving a car that feels and sounds fast, why shell out tons more money for one that truly goes fast, but doesn't feel like it? I guess I'm a cheap thrills junky.

 

Changing gears a little bit, I think the worrisome developing pattern in these conversations is that people seem to grow 'bored' of the R56 and decide to abandon ship to re-connect with the hallmark visceral driving experience of the R53.

We are not talking about a 115HP bare bones R56 MC here.... These are $40K fully loaded JCW stage 1 R56 MCS.

Did BMW missed the boat with gen II of these cars?

 

I doubt it. Most people seem to prefer boulevard cruisers. After Porsche went mainstream and dumbed things down, its sales went through the roof. I bet the same thing will happen with the R56 and its progeny, though I haven't seen any sales figures yet.

Everything is heavily market-researched and focus-grouped these days so they make these changes for a reason.

 

I don't think 911 fan meant to say his opinion to hurt the status of p-cars now, just that they have been more refined down the road. I don't think you can really blame him either; have you driven a 993?

It's so hard to take these comments in because I have driven 911's and 986 boxster, 987 caymans and boxsters and I can say I've had one of the most exhilarating experiences in those cars. On a side note, I have had the most seat time in a 997 c2s vert. and a 986 boxster non-s and refinement, at least for the 997, is very on point. I can say I favor the boxster drive more over the 997 by far. You can tell me its not a porsche, but aside the power factor, the car is just as good as a cayman and more fun to drive than that of the 911 non turbos (excluding the gt3) and the cayman. Also, I have to believe if you think this, then you probably have never driven a porsche, the new ones at least.

So this is where I'm lost.. cause i've never had seat time in the 993's but the most rawest car I have driven to date is the 986 non s and the subaru wrx sti (previous gen). I have also driven the mcs r53 and the r56 and can tell you straight off the bat that the r53 is much more of a savored experience than the r56. I just think that nowadays, you have to have enough money to own two cars to have the most rawest experience. Cause that one raw car won't be able to dd. Also, I believe cars have evolved to cater to consumers with safety than experience. It's the thing now..

 

I can half agree on this. BMW's are great, for daily driving. But for the feel and driving experience they are the best, by far, for the most electronically induced cars on the road. However completely different than a ford, they do have very well engineered, tight, safe feel for consumers. But rawness, I don't think even a e46 m3 can touch this. Maybe previous gen.s but the cars out now are great but some of the useless technology the car can be without. The one series will be a peppy car, no doubt, but it will not be raw.

 

It seems that people who like the R53 aren't the "target audience" for a company to really make money. Sure we like the product, but many many more will probably like it as it becomes refined. People like us will hang on to our R53s, 993s, e30s, etc...hell, even the e30 is way refined compared to the 2002 and even e21.

It's funny to me that people will still deny the fact that the Mini is in fact a BMW, when all you have to do is drive a newer bimmer and the R56 to be able to tell that they're the same. The journey the 3 series is on seems to equate to the journey the Mini is on - better for many, but not for all.

ClubmanS - above you ask whether or not BMW missed the mark with the R56 because some people are switching back. I think it's the opposite - while some may switch back, a lot more will like it better, and people who'd never consider the R53 might end up in a 56. Don't think the sales numbers show that yet, but time will tell. All this is hogwash if the sales for the R56 go down the tubes. Methinks a few people will snicker at their computer screens if that happens.

mb

 

I had the same thoughts to your "target audience" statement as well. To relate it to porsche, when the die hard air cooled 993 fans can care less about the newer 911's, the consumers who buy the 911's have come to liking the new technological advancements to the 911. Money talks and thats why many car manufacturers create changes to cars like 997 carreras, because they know it will sell well. However, I do think some car manufacturers leave some of their fleet to the likings of enthusiasts like the 997 gt3 or something like the evo xi mr or the subaru's wrx tr edition. They make these cars in small amounts to those who are interested in these type of cars therefore leaving the other small portion of the market happy. There are alternatives out there for us enthusiasts who love the true feel but there are limited amounts because they don't sell as well.