I want to run E-85, not because it's 110, or cheaper than 91, but because it's the right thing to do. I hate being tied to the oil tit of the mid east. Has anyone run E-85 for any length of time. The E-85 site says there are additives that prevent the alcohol from wasting the rubber and fuel pumps.

 

The additives in E85 might prevent deterioration in the seals and gaskets **of cars that are designed to use it**, but you're asking for a world of hurt if you try to use E85 on a regular basis on a car that's not designed for it, or converted for E85 use. That's why automakers make "flex-fuel" cars that are specifically designed to be able to run E85.

Also, the specific energy (energy per gram) of E85 is much lower than the specific energy of gasoline, so the car has to be "E85 aware" so that it can detect that you're using E85 and modify the fuel injector duty cycle accordingly. (If you've ever seen carburetors for race cars designed to run on alcohol, that's why the carburetor jets are approximately the size of a small sewer pipe - you have to pump a LOT more E85 through the engine for a given amount of power, compared to gasoline).

 

Relax, from what I have heard it takes more oil to make the E in the E-85 than if you had just bought 100% gasoline. We need a better idea.

 

My advice, DON'T!!!!!!!

First, the engine's gaskets and seals are not designed for it,nor is the fuel pump.
Second, I have heard from the dealer that the ECU will shut down and not let the car run.

You will get WAY less MPG using it, off setting both the cost, and any benefit to the environment, well that's till the car shuts down, and you risk voiding your warranty.

Mark

 

I have not used it for all the reasons posted. All I can say is shame on BMW for not having "Flex-fuel" cars. I did run it in a little Daihatsu...sure made it pass smog test 'clean'.

 

E85 isn't a drop and swap fuel. You'll have to remap the ECU and most likely increase injector size among many other things...
It'd probably be easier to convert to propane, which is a common swap in the UK for petrol cars.

 

According to Motor Trend TV, just about everything from the nozzle forward has to be swapped. Pump, lines, filter, injectors, ECU all that goes to a flex fuel compatible parts.

 

I'm not positive that using E-85 is "the right thing to do". Although it may feel good to use an alternative fuel without actually giving up the addiction to dead dinosaurs, ethanol might be the worst of the alternative/renewable energy sources.

Check this out: http://www.energybulletin.net/5062.html

 

I have tried a few tank fulls of E-85. The result was sluggish performance, and about a 15% drop in gas mileage. Considering that it takes more energy to make ethanol than what you get out of it, and that you have to burn more of it to get around with poorer performance, E-85 seems like a real bad idea.

 

sounds mucho complicado
and very lacking in any benefits, but if all youre concerned about is american dependence on foreign oil and you got the green,
go for it

 

Well if I was perfectly honest about all this I'd still be driving the Diahatsu that got 40 mpg, but the Mini is way more fun, an 27 mpg is still better than any SUV!!! So I should stay off the high horse and just change the pulley and add a few up grades to make it more fun! Till there is a better solution, I'm going to enjoy these little guys.

So what do I need to do to it to keep up with my boy's WRX STi?

 

There is lots of misinformation about E-85, including the "Uses more fuel" argument. It is a change in the staus quo. It is just an interim solution but please, please recognize the twisted status quo media!

the power loss of E-85 is partially made up for by the increased octane. . . less btus by greater engine efficiency.

The, uses more fuel argument is based on not having any fuel consumption in refining gasoline but having the farm transportation and every other fuel consumption counted in producing E-85. It also assumes the fuel used is gasoline and not E-85.

I blend E-85 with either premium (If I'm going to do a club thing) or the mid grade (for commuting). I use approximate 10% alcohol and get an octane of 91 to 93.

Can't notice any loss of gas mileage.

 

ok good job stepping off the high horse, but if you want to be keeping up with an STI the last thing you are going to be thinking about is gas mileage

the people that get the best mileage drive as slow as a geo metro, those are the people saving the environment so pick a side, and stick with it, stop hopping the fence

 

higher octane ratings do not increase engine efficiency...they are simply needed in higher performance engines. Octane additives are detonation inhibitors - basically, they keep your fuel/air mixture from pre-detonating in a high compression engine (or boosted cylinder as may be the case with a SC) before the spark plug fires.

Gasoline (and other petro distilates) can be transported via pipeline whereas ethanol cannot - hence the uses much more fuel to produce the same amount of end product argument.

So basically, you're ending up with the same mix that we're forced to use around the big cities in the Midwest.

As more and more Ethanol (corn) is being forced upon us, keep your eyes on the prices of other things you need in life - from beef to tortillas to soft drinks. It's just another case of shortsighted feel-good policies.

 

In the straights, sell it and buy an STi.


+1 on dubious benefit of corn derived ethanol.
If you want to be less depended on foreign oil, drive less.

 

+1

 

Maybe I was a bit misunderstood...I'm not a tree hugging left wing liberal that thinks we all should be driving high mileage vehicles...I'm simply for some fuel alternative...if we were aloud to drill for our own resources and could tell the middle east to KOA, I'd be fine with that. But till then, I would just like something we can use, WE produce. E-85 is only one area that we could become self sufficient...it's time we work on other areas.

I hope that clears up the "hopping" the fence issue...I love gas guzzling V8's...I just prefer small cars...as for keeping up with the my boy's stage 2 WRX STi, probably not going to happen in the near future...his plans are to make his even nastier! I'm into paying off the house before I work on the Mini, (well the pulley may come first.)

 

i'm one or at least left wing liberal, on the left coast

but e-85 is not a viable alternative fuel. it's a bit of a propaganda that it's an alternative fuel when in fact it takes more energy to produce than it's worth. i'm all for alternative fuel 'cuz objectively we are quickly running out of oil, but just 'cuz i'm dying of dehydration doesn't mean i'm gonna drink sand. even hybrids are not really the answer; they're so complex and costly to produce, and their batteries are terrible for the environment, both to manufacture and to dispose. what's the best alternative fuel? i don't think they've figured it out yet. what's the best solution right now? i think diesels. case in point: the new diesel mini gets better gas mileage than and is as clean as the prius. i think that's the best and most cost-effective way to conserve fuel right now. vw and mb has that bluetec diesel, and they're excellent. out the door w/ e-85 and hybrids, bring on the new diesels

and i have no shame in driving down the street in a crappy old mercedes farting out french fries smell out the exhaust. don't have one, but i'd takeo one of those, too

 

Hey I'd get on the Diesel wagon, but we're a bit slow here in the states, we could learn a thing from the Europe, on that matter. Audi proved they can go fast...I'd be happy with the french fryer.

 

Have you guys checked the price of beef lately? All because of the ethanol fad. And it IS a fad, IMO.

 

Well, against the flow: I won't try to convince anyone of anything. I blend with E-85 because I believe it to be both environmentally and socially responsible. I also hold the opinion than many of the negative views of E-85 has to do with oil industry propaganda and "Purchased Science." It is also true for me that a car built to use E-85, with all other elements being identical, will produce more horsepower. But why argue. After all, better we eat tortillas together while we can still afford them.

 

Agriculture Secretary Says Oil, Weather Drive Food Prices, Not Ethanol
- Source: National Corn Growers Association (NCGA), Oct. 10, 2007
Acting U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Chuck Conner said last week that higher corn prices are only a small factor behind higher food prices. In a speech to the Renewable Fuels Association, Conner said, “The data that has been presented to me shows that the higher price of corn prices has been assigned far more than its fair share of blame for what is happening in our grocery store aisles.”
Conner noted that droughts in Europe, Asia and Australia have reduced yields in those areas, while demand for milk and dairy products in Asia has increased. The rising cost of oil, he added, affects processing, packaging, distribution and marketing costs. “A much, much greater impact than higher grain prices as a result of ethanol,” he said.
Conner’s remarks bear out other food price studies, said NCGA President Ron Litterer. “It’s good the secretary is talking about this,” he commented. “Numerous independent studies show there is only a slight link between what corn growers receive for their crops and what consumers pay for their food. We’ll have a record harvest this year, and there’s plenty of corn to meet the demand for both food and fuel.”
In his speech, Conner pointed out that the amount of corn being fed to livestock has actually increased, despite the growing demand for corn-based ethanol. “In addition to meeting all of our demands for ethanol, the corn farmers in this country put out enough to actually increase the number of bushels of corn available for feed,” he said.
U.S. Department of Agriculture economists predict food prices will moderate to a more normal rate of increase in 2008. “That would be in keeping with the historical patterns that we had seen prior to (increased demand for ethanol),” Conner said

 

One of the big problems with corn based fuels is the economic impact on those with very little financial means. As already noted, higher corn prices result in higher prices for milk, beef, cereal, etc. Everyone needs to eat and the extra cost for such common groceries can be very difficult for some families to deal with. Yes, rising oil prices can also drive up food prices, but a large portion of that paid at the pump by people who can afford a car and groceries and the rest is spread across the entire spectrum of consumer goods, not just corn related.

 

I was trying to see what would happen if I was to use E85 as a octane booster in my car like 3/4 of 91 octane gas and 1/4 e85 will it still be bad? Would I gain any octane? I have a ECU map for 110 but it is like almost 8.50 a gallon, that is not happening . Would the E85 help me ?

 

The main issue is ethanol doesn't have the same energy output as gasoline. While it may be over 100 octane, it only has around 80k BTU energy output compared to ~125k BTU for gasoline. That means you need to inject more of it resulting in low mileage and a lower stoichiometric A/F ratio (meaning a new ecu tune at the minimum, bigger injectors otherwise). The positive is that with higher octane, you can bring up the boost (not very easy with a supercharger) and bring up the timing (ecu tune).

Compounding this is the fact that ethanol isn't very nice on rubber hoses and the like. Even older cars have issues with the current 10% ethanol in modern gas.

It's a big risk.