What's better than a Sky/Solstice with an LS2? A Sky/Solstice w/ an LS7. Some people are just silly. Why wouldn't you just get the Corvette in either case? It's about the same weight and not some crazy frankenstein job, plus you probably have enough room to stick on a couple of turbos.

 

I know this might be a little off topic but my dad ordered a Chevy Tahoe this morning so he won't screw up the Spur in the winter. It's not a bad vehicle I like the looks of it the most, it looks beefy and very maculine.

 

Yes, VERY off topic You ruined my thread.

 

I don't know if I'm the first to admit it here, but I'm just gonna say I AM a GM fan. Maybe it's mostly nostalgia though, because I know they've made some VERY stupid decisions the past few years (decades maybe). But my family always owned GM vehicles and ONLY GM vehicles, as a matter of fact only Chevys til about 3 years ago. My sister (bought an Altima) and I last year were the first to go "import".

So with that bias out there, I have to say:

1. The Chevy Impala gets a bad reputation. It is the #3 selling car, behind Camry and Accord. Sure that's a lot of fleet sales or whatever, but still there are plenty of people who buy these cars and like them. My mom has an 06 Impala SS with the 5.3L 303 HP V8. She didn't care for the plain Camcords, so for a "boring" transporation appliance, this Imp is very nice. And it looks much better in person in SS form than it does in a picture in base LS form. She got one of the first run cars, and there have been no quality issues, no problems.


2. GM has invested a lot in these new large SUVs that I know so many of you loathe, but they are selling very well. So SOMEBODY out there still wants them, and for those people GM has the absolute best full-size body-on-frame SUVs on the market now.


3. I don't think GM will disappear. Probably a bankruptcy filing, restructuring, and a new much smaller GM, but not a disappearance.


4. If Saturn brings the Opel Astra OPC here as a Saturn Astra Red Line (and it looks like they might) I would definitely think long and hard about trading for one. (Opel is pictured below)

 

1) The current Impala is a "good" car but it doesn't excel in any areas, specially against its Japanese competitors. This years refreshining was a welcome start in making this car more appealing, specially the interior which prior to 2006 was a convuluted mess of cheap plastics, fisher price buttons and poor fitting trim. My biggest beef with this Impala is that this is supposed to be not only one of the best Chevy full size family sedans but the best and most value packed GM sedan, period. This car for starters, should be RWD, not FWD. Not even the SS version can make up for this blatant deficiency. All Impalas made from 1959 until 1996 were strictly RWD cars. The 2000-2006 Impala is the first FWD ever for the lineup.

The Impala gives a lot of car for the money but it can't compete with the vastly superior Chrysler RWD sedans and even the lackluster Ford Five Hundred sedans leaves it in the dust when it comes to interior room.

Before I came into the MINI world, I owned 2 Impalas...a 2000 Impala LS and a 2001 Impala LS. Good cars for the most part and the 3800 Series II V6 was a bulletproof engine. But the cars had fit and finish issues and generally speaking they were pretty mundane to drive. Whenever I pulled up to a '94-'96 RWD V8 Impala SS, it made me feel like I had a "counterfeit" not a real Impala. Kept the cars for a couple of years and sold them after I discovered the MINI fever.

2)The SUV market is already dead. Detroit knows it, the Japanese knows it. It is no secret that the "Honeymoon" with these overhyped and overrrated trucks is over. The American consumer is finally wising up, sicj and tired of paying $65-$85 gas fill ups to kep these behemoths running, have re-discovered smaller, better packaged, more fuel efficient cars. The only reason these vehicles sell, is because of all the incentive, rebates and discounts built into the deal. If anyone wants a full size GM/Ford or DCX SUV this is the best time to get one, because these behemoths are piling up in dealer's lots. No one in their right mind will ever pay MSRP for a full size V8 SUV, not even a brand new version of a specific model. If gas hits the $4/gallon mark, these things will dissapear as quickly as the dinosaurs did. Last I heard, Hummer dealers have a 102+ day supply of H2 Hummers in dealers lots... No one wants them!

3) Rick Wagonner (GM CEO) needs to step down. The man as an executive is a disaster. And as much as the media may be trumphing all his latest "measures" to save the company from the brink of bankruptcy, most critics in the industry agree that the moves are 1) Not agressive enough 2) Come too late into the game.

GM needs some fresh blood at the top and they also need to bring HOME RUN or GRAND SLAM products to the market. GM can't longer afford to bring "Good enough" cars. GM needs to bring "Gotta have" products and they know it.

4) Don't hold your breath. The bone heads at GM's USA headquarters will never EVER bring any of their competitive Opel products to the US. If they do, they will "americanize them" (Read: Saturn) so to strip them of any Germanic genes or Germanic driving behavior. The Opel Astra (Or any other Opel) will never come to these shores.

 

As for SUVs, I was referring to the new GMT900 Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade, not the GMT800 H2. The 900's may be overstocked in some areas, but overall they're definitely not piling up on dealer lots. I think there's a totally different market for the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade trio because they are not totally image-driven status symbol vehicles. (Although playing around at the auto show I found that the Nissan Armada was far roomier with just as many features and in my opinion more style for the same money.)

And Lutz has already said Saturns will (besides large vehicles) be Opels. They have trademarked the name "Astra" in the US. They canceled the next ION (Evoke). The SKY is identical to the Opel GT. The Aura has the Opel design themes (headlight shape, grille bar, chrome trunk edge, etc.). The Opel Antara concept was brought to New York as the Saturn Prevue. If the Opels are brought here as Saturns and only "Americanized" to the extent the SKY was, then I think it might work out for them.

 

Remember that GM does market a European brand in America, Saab. Ok, so they've done everything in their power to eliminate it's unique, quirky personality and turn it into a Swedish Opel/Vauxhall/Chevy. I'd love to see a decent Euro-version of some of the hot Opels or Vauxhalls rather than some Americanized (read detuned, softly sprung, landau roofed) version sold as a Cadillac to your grandmother's hairdresser. Oh, how I hate GM! Not a decent vehicle since 1972. Except the Cadillac CTS-V that is! Fix the interior with some upscale wood and leather and GM may have an Audi/BMW/Merc buster!

 

I have owned 3 corvettes over the past 7 years... Two of them have been Z06's.
I can tell you from experience that these are amazing performance machines!
Sure.. they may have had some interior bits that weren't up to Euro par... but all is forgiven when you plant your right foot or throw the thing into a corner..
The instant torque and those wondeful V8 sounds were some of the best thrills on the planet.. Only had it back to the dealer once for a power window issue... totally reliable. I got 16 mpg in the city even when pushing it... and 29 on the Hwy! This is on a car that rips to 60 in under 4 seconds and does the 1320 in 12.2 @ 117mph.
These cars are bullet proof and can handle performance runs all day long... they were designed for it... lacking in refinement.. but not by much... I'm talking about the C5's and up.... the older ones don't compare...
GM is full of car guys... they make cars that others won't even dare try.. I sure hope they survive... and I am looking forward to the next beast they create.

 

Must be something wrong with them if you went through 3 in 7 years!

My GMC full size pickup, on the other hand, is still strokin' after 16 years.

 

Maybe, but he does have an XB, maybe something is wrong with him.

 

Haha.. it would seem that way... My 99 was the first and it was a fixed roof coupe...
Had it for 5 years and sold it for the Z06... Then was diagnosed with cancer... I flipped out and sold the Z not knowing what my fate was...
Then surgery, radiation treatments... I made it! So I went out and bought another Z06 to celebrate...

 

Perfect way to celebrate

 

I needed a beater car that could handle the home depot trips... also wanted an automatic for the city jams... It's ugly and slow... but also cheap to buy, own and its pretty roomy. Might be selling it soon... too many cars..

 

The Corvette is the best car GM makes. Too bad they are doing such a poor job of marketing it. (And that includes all its recent motorsports accolades).

 

The C6 is a very well designed car with incredible performance. While the cars generally sell themselves, it's still easy to 'forget' it's out there. It should be promoted more.

 

What do you mean? You can't even buy a C6 because they're sold out for months. Unless you mean they're doing a lousy job of capitalizing on the success of the car. Trickle-down doesn't really work anyhow -- most people realize the only similarities between a Cobalt and a Corvette is the badge and a paint color.

 

Really? I just went throught the Vette site and it showed me 8 Z06s within 30 miles. Did the same search on a C6 coupe and six PAGES of references came up ... maybe 40 cars?

Maybe its a CA thing?

 

Hmmm, maybe it is a California thing. I talk to the guys at the Chevy dealer down the street all the time and they tell me supply isn't even close to demand for the C6. Searching their inventory online turns up one, but I don't see any on their lot.

Then there's this:

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/14/g...e-selling-out/

 

Bob Lutz just doesn't have a grasp of reality. Maybe that's why GM is in so much trouble.

[edit] I searched for corvettes in the 77478 area (Houston area) and there are 7 ZO6s, 36 Convertibles, and 42 Coupes.

 

Actually, I have a great deal of respect for Bob Lutz as he was instrumental in the success BMW enjoys today. Lutz worked for BMW in the 1960's.

Lutz is a "real" car guy. The same can not be said for Richard Wagoneer, the current GM CEO.

I think Lutz has done as much as he can considering the retrograd and recalcitrant GM culture down at the "tubes".

If it weren't for Lutz, the Solstice, Sky, The GTO (Yes it was a failure in the end but at least he got the guts to bring over a high performing V8 RWD from the land down under) and some other cars would not have seen the light of day.

Lutz was on the Solstice project since 2002. It took 27 months to bring the car from concept to production a first for GM.

 

Oh, I don't doubt for a minute the Corvette sells practically by itself, after all, it is a well established car and has a following like our beloved cars.

Rather, I think GM is not capitalizing enough on the success of one of their best products on the road today. For some reason GM seems to "downplay" the achievements of this car, specially in the motorsports arena.

The Corvette is proof positive that within the convoluted and misguided GM compound, there is a team of engineers, designers that are true car fanatics capable of unleashing a truly world class automobile without the restrictions and the corporate culture BS that plague so many GM products.

It is been said that the Corvette design/engineering team is the one that enjoys the most freedom and suffers from the most envy from other product/design development teams within GM. It shows.

 

A little excerpt on how Bob Lutz helped mastermind the success of BMW back in the 1970's:

Together, von Kuenheim and Lutz would show the world that BMW had never been anything but the most admired automobile brand in the world. Von Kuenheim's 23 years in command was the longest span of power by any post-World War II auto CEO who did not own the company. Under von Kuenheim, BMW's sales revenues grew from 1.5 billion deutsche marks in 1970 to over 30 billion marks in 1993, the year he retired.
"I came in 1970 when BMW was selling 140,000 cars a year," said von Kuenheim. "The year before had turnover of one billion deutsch marks. That was a fixed point. Quandt wondered what to do with BMW, because it was very small. The experts said you could only succeed if you produce 500,000. We didn't have enough money, capacity, research or development people. When you are small you have only one chance - to produce more expensive cars. Higher turnover or higher volume. We went for the premium sector.
"How do you come out of that mousetrap to become bigger or go in a special sector niche? You go someplace where there is more or less no competition. We had a luxury sporty car. Good engine, good handling, and we got as high a price as possible. The VW Beetle sold for 4,500 to 5,000 marks in those days. I remember the BMW management board said, 'let's take 1,000 more, 20 percent more.' We had a fight on the board and decided 1,000 was not enough. We decided in 1970 to take 3,000 more," von Kuenheim said.
"It didn't work so well. It was a very bumpy road. The idea was right to go in that direction. But it was a company guided and controlled by engineers. We had excellent technical content. We had the best chassis, best engine, best handling. But we had no sales organization. And we were very provincial. Not a European company, not even a German company. It was a Bavarian company."

BMW began to make its first strides toward the top rank of world automotive brands when von Kuenheim and Bob Lutz decided in 1972 to take control of the company's national importers around the world. This was an unprecedented move that was tremendously taxing in time and energy. But the two men decided that it had to be done. The small Bavarian company had been flogging its motorcycles in overseas markets, but the car business was mainly focused on

 

(It got cut off, here goes again):

Together, von Kuenheim and Lutz would show the world that BMW had never been anything but the most admired automobile brand in the world. Von Kuenheim's 23 years in command was the longest span of power by any post-World War II auto CEO who did not own the company. Under von Kuenheim, BMW's sales revenues grew from 1.5 billion deutsche marks in 1970 to over 30 billion marks in 1993, the year he retired.
"I came in 1970 when BMW was selling 140,000 cars a year," said von Kuenheim. "The year before had turnover of one billion deutsch marks. That was a fixed point. Quandt wondered what to do with BMW, because it was very small. The experts said you could only succeed if you produce 500,000. We didn't have enough money, capacity, research or development people. When you are small you have only one chance - to produce more expensive cars. Higher turnover or higher volume. We went for the premium sector.
"How do you come out of that mousetrap to become bigger or go in a special sector niche? You go someplace where there is more or less no competition. We had a luxury sporty car. Good engine, good handling, and we got as high a price as possible. The VW Beetle sold for 4,500 to 5,000 marks in those days. I remember the BMW management board said, 'let's take 1,000 more, 20 percent more.' We had a fight on the board and decided 1,000 was not enough. We decided in 1970 to take 3,000 more," von Kuenheim said.
"It didn't work so well. It was a very bumpy road. The idea was right to go in that direction. But it was a company guided and controlled by engineers. We had excellent technical content. We had the best chassis, best engine, best handling. But we had no sales organization. And we were very provincial. Not a European company, not even a German company. It was a Bavarian company."

BMW began to make its first strides toward the top rank of world automotive brands when von Kuenheim and Bob Lutz decided in 1972 to take control of the company's national importers around the world. This was an unprecedented move that was tremendously taxing in time and energy. But the two men decided that it had to be done. The small Bavarian company had been flogging its motorcycles in overseas markets, but the car business was mainly focused on

 

The article seems to be too long to be posted here.

Here is a link to the article (A very good read):

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enth...205.A8615.html

 

Aren't Corvettes sort of hand built, as in not the regular assembly line? Helps make them exclusive.

AutoWeek April 17 issue has a two page article about the Americanized Opel Sky Line, er Red Sky, er Red Line (like the oil) introductions. Hate to admit it, the PreVue/ Antara is almost as neat as the Sky.