Today's news:

DETROIT (Reuters) - Shares of General Motors Corp. (NYSE:GM - news) fell to a new 23-year low on Tuesday as news of a new incentive program spread amid concerns about a possible bankruptcy filing at the world's largest automaker...

Another incentive program, Delphi's pension is apparently 10 billion underfunded, selling the money-spinner GMAC....what do you think, will GM make it?

Bob Lutz and some other GM execs are making promises and excuses at their blog . Thanks to a link from Jalopnik for turning me on to that little corporate/marketing gem.

C'mon, GM, build some market-driven cars, put in no-haggle pricing, and give 'em a warranty that says "I ain't afraid of you, Hyundai."

 

More than likely, GM will eventually stop production of Pontiac and Buick afew years down the road, leaving just Chevy and Caddy. Ford will stop the Mercury, leaving Ford and Lincoln. Maybe they'll both unload some of the other car manufacturers they bought, Saab, Volvo, Jag etc. Tough times.

 

I also wouldn't be surprised if GM only had a "GM" brand.

man, I hope they recover.

 

They're GM, maybe they just need to put some of the cash they have been stashing for the last 80 years or so back out from the vault and put it into the company.

It's kind of like me feeling sorry for insurance co.'s after they collect premiums for 50 or 60 years and finally have to pay off on a natural disaster one year.

I wouldn't worry about GM going belly up, I think they'll make it. They will use whatever they can to stiff the unions and the retirees, if a BK will do it they might try, but they'll still be around.

 

The fact that we drive MINIs says a lot about GM's problem. They don't build exciting, affordable, practical, economical cars. Sure I'd love a Caddy CTS-V, until I had to fill it up with gas; likewise a Z06 'Vette, or Holden/Pontiac GTO. However, none of those vehicles is as kewl as my MCS, ergo Sorry GM, no sale. Lets face it, Detroit hasn't been where its at for thirty-five years. Tokyo and Munich have been.

 

Agreed, I can get employee pricing (on top of all the other rebates and stuff they offer to everyone) and we have 3 cars, but none of them are GM...or even built in the US (Japan-Japan-and of course UK) They simply don't offer cars for enthusiasts that don't cost $50,000 ('Vette, CTS-V). My husband grew up driving 'Vettes as his dad was the final line manager there for many years, but at this point he would rather have his EVO. At first his dad gave us the evil eye for our cars, but he now agrees that GM just doesn't have what we're looking for

 

dang, 30,000 jobs and 9 plants...

 

Yeah I hope they can pull it together. It would be a sad thing to see GM go under. And 30K people out of work isn't good either, but hopefully that's all that will have to go. My MINI is the only non-GM car in my family, and I'll probably go back to an 08 Silverado.

 

It seems I see quite a few seniors driving Buick's. Or, the Lincoln Town Car, or the big Caddys and last but not least the Ford Crown Vic.

I was at a car show a few years back in California....nobody was looking at the new Buicks, or at the time, the new Oldsmobiles.

Almost all were checking out the new cars from Europe, or Japan and then I noticed that most of the people checking out the cars were in the age group of 18 to 50 somethings me being in the latter group.

But most of the american iron was just kinda plain looking...just dull...

Yeah the Vette looked good and the new T-Bird but for the most part, the cars from across the pond stole the show.

 

Its all about benefits and pension liabilities. Over $2000 in cost of each car is for benefits. Many of the legacy companies are having problems related to underfunded pension plans.

Its a long discussion, but wonder why no one does defined benefit pension plans any more? With people living longer, actuaries are having to include that in their estimate of years after retirement, meaning liabilities go up.

In my opinion, GM is toast. The Feds will need to bail them out, like they did Chrysler in the 80s I think it was.

 

Maybe this is an attempt to dump the unions.
I mean, really, how many semi-literate monkeys with air wrenches can the industry support at $25-30 hour?

<flame suit on>

 

I think the key point is they just cant seem to get it right.I have tried to support them in my business but its always been the same problem.Quality and lack of excitement.Up here the GM plant is the highest rating for initial quality but it builds the old dull front wheel drives.Seniors and fleet rentals buy these cars.There customer base is dying off, anything new suffers the same old problem,bring out something sharp looking and put an anemic engine in it.Just so you know GM put me through college 30 years ago,and yes we have a GM 04 Colorado which has had problems, 04 mitsu endevour which is bullet proof,03 Mini s in for clutch flywheel and throw out bearing,and an 05 mcsc which has had no problems with 20 k miles.The Mini though is exciting to drive and fun to modify and they even have enthusiast clubs and websites.The bottom line is that GM continues to live in the past and havnt adapted to the changes in the marketplace.Global competition and free trade is killing them.Just my thoughts on all the latest news.

 

You can read about the closing and timing at Wikipedia.

this is very sad news...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors

 

GM may be on the right track again, at least as far as enthusiasts go. The Solstice intro and next year's Sky show they understand part of the problem. While the union pay scales may be hurting them, I imagine the paychecks and benefits the top 3% of the company get cut into the profits worse.

 

I agree that the solistice looks great but if you read car reveiws they all come back and complain about the car being to heavy for the engine,the top being complicated when it could be simple like the Miata and various other comments.Then there List price is below the price of the miata,how can they compete when they are selling at that price when 2000 of the price goes to pension overhead.Its a vallant effort but I am sure Gm has had enough years to disect enough Miatas to know what makes them tick.I think they assume that out of loyality everyone is going to run to the dealer to order one.If its like the Feiro experience of the 80"s by the time they figure it out the bean counters will have killed the car.

 

I came of age in the horror years of the X-car (Chevy Citation, et al), V8-6-4, 180hp Corvettes, and Vegas that you could watch rust (starting on the showroom floor). No for me GM was, is, and always shall be all that is wrong with American automobiles.

I used to subscribe to the theory that no post-1972 GM product was ever worth owning. I've revised it slightly to cover some of the newer 'Vette powered homeboys: C5 and C6 Corvette, Holden/Pontiac GTO and Cadillac CTS-V, but as for the bread and butter cars from GM, well I'd be satisfied to see them shape up or go the way of Nash, Packard, Studebaker, DeSoto, Oldsmobile, Plymouth, AMC, ******, Edsel, Hudson, Kaiser, Overland, Graham, and countless other American made automobiles that couldn't compete with the rest of the world.

All these years and what's GM been up to? Larger and larger SUVs, Pickups and that monstrosity known as Hummer. Pad the bottom line with 1950s designs (push rod small block V8, body on frame pickups and SUVs, etc.); when the rest of the world was "adding lightness" going to small displacement multi-valve dohc alloy engines, DSG, SMG manu-matic gearboxes, hybrid power sources, etc. I understand GM has some if not all of these technologies available and even in production, but it sure has never done a decent job of promoting these vehicles. Case in point: GM's German brand, Opel. Some damn fine cars are currently produced by Opel, and GM tries to rebrand the Opel for the US market as a Cadillac?!! What were they thinking??!!

eor

 

Agreed -- it seems to me that GM is really in big trouble. The financial crisis surrounding their pension plans is really serious. Having to spend $2k from the purchase of each vehicle for pension means they are having to increase profit margins by cheaping out on components and development. They cannot afford to build something like the MINI, with the same quality for the same price. As MINI enthusiasts, there is probably nothing from GM that is appealing to us (except maybe a truck to tow one's track prepped MINI to and from the track). If you wanted a 4 door people mover, are you buying a Cobalt or a Civic? Coblat is a little less expensive -- but then if all you wanted was low price, check out Kia or Hyundai. The Korean manufacturers cornered the market on bargain price, the Japanese have the market for perceived quality and value. GM is trying to both and failing.

Have any of you driven a GM product lately? I haven't driven the new CTS-V, or Holden GTO, but those are not at my price point. Most consumers willing to spend in the mid-$20k range, and want a car (not SUV), will be wanting something that is comfortable, reliable, and stylish.

http://www.gmbuypower.com/vehicleList.bp?year=2006&makeId=all&modelId=na&sty leId=11&make=all&model=all&identifyThumbnail=
showAllMakeBodyStyle&fromModule=NVS&lowerPrice=180 00&higherPrice=29999

This should show you everything in GM's bin for 18-30k. Not including the Saaburus, new Buicks, and the Solstice, I've driven just about every one of the rest of those choices (cars only). None of them entice me to take my money to the nearest dealer. The new Pontiac G6 seems really nice when it is brand new, but if it ages as well as the previous Grand Prix, Grand spAm, et al, no thank you. If I wanted a small runabout with 4 doors, I'm going to Toyota (Corolla) or Honda (Civic). The Ion interior is too 'quirky' for my preference, not to mention it feels cheap and is uncomfortable. Same for the Cobalt. Plus, the Japanese choices have better fuel economy ratings. Pontiac Vibe? Not on your life (nor the toyota Matrix either) -- if I wanted a wagon, I would consider the 9-2x if it is indeed more refined that the WRX wagon. The Monte Carlo? It is a big FWD boat that doesn't go fast, nor does it handle particularly well. I think the only reason it sells at all is the NASCAR people who think it brings them closer to Earndhart (the dead one, or the alive one).
My parents have recently returned to Buicks and I suspect they'll always be popular for the AARP crowd. I'm not meaning that as a dig on anyone, but Buicks feel like you are driving in your overstuffed sofa which seems to appeal to an older segment of the consumer market. But I have digressed...