I would say it would be better to group off experience or how comfortable the drivers are with certain speeds etc. I no many drivers that in a cooper could smoke many of us in a M3...the driver is a bigger factor then the car they drive.

 

There's no reasom to exclude all group drives from your future. One of the first things to be set out when the drive is getting organized is what type of drive it's going to be. If the people who put it on don't mention it, then you should ask. This should solve most of the problem before it starts. Never join a run without finding this out first!

Secondly, the organizers should give everyone a route map. Everyone will know where they're going and incidents like Macncheese described could be avoided. As mentioned also, larger groups should be split down to avoid seperation at intersections as much as possible. Also, the lead car needs to be aware of what's going on with their particular group. This is one of the good uses of the radios.

You can also use the radios to ask the leader to slacken the pace a bit if they get motivating faster than agreed upon for the run. If this doesn't slow them down, then take it up with them, in a group discussion, at the next rest stop reminding them of the guidelines laid out for the run. At this point, if a compromise can't be reached, you can split the group and continue the run at your own pace.

Out and out wreckless driving (blind corner passing, etc..) should never be allowed! If the person has a radio, they should immediately warned. If not, then it needs to be brought up at the next stop. Second infraction, they need to be sent home, or wherever. You neither need nor want an idiot riding in your group.

Common sense and asking a few questions before the drive can make for a really enjoyable day. As I said at the beggining of this, the most important thing is to verify that it's going to be a run that you want to participate in.

 

This will sound like some sort of "the birds and the bees" talk but if you find yourself in an uncomfortable situation during a group drive just say no and back off. Being on a group drive is no different than driving to your local grocery store, some people are going to want to go faster, others slower. Just be honest about with yourself about the speed you want to take things and don't feel like you need to apologize for not doing what everyone else is.

 

Just completed a group drive with 12 MINIs yesterday and it was an absolute joy to coordinate and be a part of. It's just been very nice to have several group events here in AZ with around 10-15 MINIs and we all walk in with the understanding that we're here to motor, have fun, and get to know each other better.

We pick challenging drives b/c that's where the demand seems to lie but thankfully we're fortunate to have an extremely large network of desolte twisty highways out here where we can let loose and have fun.

The majority of our drives have been under the insurance umbrella for added safety and we soon hope to have every group drive event protected at no cost to the drivers.

Some things I think that have helped us out along the way are:

- plenty of communication beforehand (mostly via NAM :smile regarding the drive, who's coming, what to expect....we discuss safety beforehand and at the meet. one MINI yesterday had twins strapped in the back in their matching baby seats! These guys are going to be born moterers I tell ya! My point though is that all ages and situations needs to be anticipated for so we want everyone to feel safe and certainly not alienated.

- multiple stops in a concerted effort to keep the group together. so generally we seem to have about a total drive of 400 miles and we'll stop about six times or more. This means within the short bursts of 20-50 mile ranges....those who want to take off can, and those who want to relax may also do so. We who like to drive a little on the more aggressive side have no problem discussing the last 20 mins of joy we just had while waiting for our fellow counterparts who may go slower. to be honest though, the aggressive drivers stay with the group....i'll explain why later.

- the aggressive drivers also like to mix it up. we don't ALWAYS want to be at the front. we like to stay at the back sometimes and ride with others. i love seeing a lineup of 13 MINIs in front of me whisking through curves.

- we enjoy staying as a group. we do a fun run about once every 6-8 weeks but sometimes if we just want to do a fast run, we'll round up one or two other MINIs in between those times for a different route. in addition though, it's not uncommon for us to do the same stretch of road a couple of times so those who are more leisurely enjoy hanging out at a scenic spot while the others go pretend they're on the Lombard RAC Rally for a half hour. the aggressive drivers get their fix, and those who don't feel like it can sit back, relax, and enjoy some amazing scenery in the remote parts of the state that we visit and chat with others and take pictures.

- we have at least six two way radios and plenty of cell phones to communicate with. just yesterday 13 MINIs are driving through Nogales looking for a Mexican restaurant some of us had been to before but couldn't remember where. Not exactly an easy task but we instinctively communicated to others that we'd break up into little group so that each group had a navigator with a radio and the other drivers could follow that leader till we all found the place we wanted.

- we enjoy each other's company. we like to take most of the day to plan events like this so this normally means we meet early for breakfast, and plan a lunch and we can all be home by dinner time. we all love to drive it and get along so well we really do have fun and motor.

maybe we're just lucky to have such a solid group of enthusiasts out here? i'm certainly not complaining. i highly enjoy hanging out with these guys and it's even more fun to do it on a fun run.

haf :smile:


_________________
GO NAKED! - Debadge :smile:

 

Group drives can be a lot of fun. But they can also be dangerous and frustrating at times. I've been in group drives where the leader definitely tended to speed, especially on the twisties.

As mentioned by some on this thread it is vitally important for the group drive leader to explain the route and any special parts of the route that need to be described for safety reasons, emphasize road safety and courtesy. The drive leader should also designate someone to bring up the rear to accompany the stragglers, especially if those stragglers are not familiar with the route, or if they have mechanical problems.

Road maps and a FRS radio is a must for the leader, vanguard and others. The problem that I've encountered is that, often groups are separated in urban areas due to traffic lights and traffic in general. There should be a re-assembly area in case of group separation.

As a leader, you don't just drive at 65-70 mph unaware of the rest of the group cars behind you and whether or not they are keeping up. THAT is the mark of a poor leader.

 

Being a club president, this is something that concerns me greatly.

On all the group drives I've done except for the dealer-run one (where we did 55 in a 65 blocking up traffic on a busy, rainy night in Cleveland, ) there has been a strong penchant for speeding. I'm guilty first and foremost, as I'm usually the one leading the pack.

To cite one example, I took the club out to West Virginia to blast around in the mountains there and in PA. There was me in my Cooper S, my friends Tim & Carol in Tim's Cooper (Carol left hers at home), as well as the Roberts' in their MCS. In addition to our 3-mini group, we had my brother (who is the worst driver I know, I won't ride with him) in his PT Turbo. To put it into perspective, I was the second fastest running car, but nowhere close to the limits of the car. My brother was almost a mile ahead of us the whole time because he was speeding so much, I'm amazed he didn't fly off a cliff.

Having this experience, as well as being on a number of other Mini rallies, makes it tough to plan events for my club. Everyone is getting antsy, they're tired of restaurant and movie meets... they want a drive.

On one of my drives I made everyone sign a release form stating that Mini NEO (and now Classic MINI the dealer, as they're our sponsor) accepts NO responsibility for the actions of the driver, and any consequences are in the hands of the driver themselves. I'm going to set strick speeding rules... no more than 5 mph over. If people want to drive nuts they can do it on their own time. I was at a Mid-Atlantic meet in a string of 19 Minis... there were times that we were doing 80-90-100 on backroads in Amish country.

So, here's my idea for a release form for my club, feel free to copy it for yours.

---------

Mini NEO Road Rally release form
[To be signed by every club member, and everyone planning on driving in an event MUST sign or they will not be able to participate in the drive, thank you! This will be kept filed by Jeremy and will accompany him on every driving meet.]



I, ______________________ of __________________________ as a driver of a participating vehicle do readily acknowledge that any action I make during this event is my responsibility and my responsibility alone. I hereby disavow Mini NEO and Classic MINI of any responsibility over my presence at this meet, and understand that any negative consequences of my actions are of no responsibility to them or their organizers. Furthermore, I take full responsibility for the well being of my passengers and those vehicles around me.

By signing this form I agree to keep my driving speed no more than 5 miles per hour above the posted speed limit, and to keep a safe distance away from the vehicle in front of me. Should I be separated from the rest of the group, I understand that the event organizers will have pre-set meeting places along the route, and that I do not need to drive aggressively in order to catch up with the rest of the group.

Date: _________

Note for drivers and passengers: Mini NEO highly recommends the use of a 2-way radio or CB radio for driving events, as it makes things a ton easier for everyone to stay together. The channels we usually use as a club are 8 for the 2-way and 3 for the CB. CB radios can be purchased at Best Buy; antennae for them are available at Radio Shack. 2-way radios can be purchased at Wal-Mart for pretty cheap. I recommend Cobra or Motorola FRS/GMRS radios.

 

Oh, and before anyone says anything, the reason I use channel 8 is because some of my club members with radios don't get subchannels - 8 seems to come in the clearest.

 

I was at a Mid-Atlantic meet in a string of 19 Minis... there were times that we were doing 80-90-100 on backroads in Amish country.
_____________________

Those people should be told to observe the "rules" or don't come back. Simple as that. Their behavior makes a bad impression of MINI drivers.

 

I agree with Dave 100%. I am too getting a bit uncomfortable with group drives because of those drivers that want to "show off" and break the laws of the road for the heck of it.

This is an universal problem and something that needs to be frequently brought up in clubs and meets.

My concept of motoring is driving at leisure enjoying the car, scenery and other MINIs but when these drives turn into the Grand Prix, then you won't see me coming back.


I guess the older you get the more fraid you become when it comes to these things!

 

This photo was taken at The Dragon!

NOTE: The driver is on the wrong side of the road going into a corner!






Morons like this are not limited to any particular make or model of car. I heard from a friend that she saw someone pull something similar to this on a MINI drive (She was mid group. I was leading, actually at the time going slower than the speed limit stuck in traffic). So let's not pretend that MINI doesn't have owners like this. We do.


My prediction: This Summer we're going to have a very serious accident on a MINI drive, due to someone pushing the envelope on public roads. The victim(s) may be in the MINI, or a member of the public, not associated with the drive, that gets forced into the situation by a MINI that is pushing the envelope. Unfortunately, I believe the result will be someone getting killed or very seriously injured.



_________________
:: David Bunting :: North American Motoring :: Send me a PM ::

 

Is that passenger waving or trying to escape?

 

>>Is that passenger waving or trying to escape?

I think trying to avoid being ID'd...Of course I am wondering who is taking the picture, hopefully not the driver......but for that to be probable, it would have to be RHD????? Unless some poor unfortunate sould got to ride in the BACK of the Mini at the Dragon........

 

To me it's partly who you choose to motor with. Remember, you get to pick where and who you go with. If you feel uncomfortable with the way someone else is driving, then you can go elsewhere. If the group as a whole feels uncomfortable with an individual, that individual should be ostracized (sp?) from the group. I know some people have felt uncomfortable on some of my fun-runs, and they themselves choose not to come back. So it's time to stand up and act like adults and make the grown-up decisions on how, with who and where you motor.

 

>>To me it's partly who you choose to motor with. Remember, you get to pick where and who you go with. If you feel uncomfortable with the way someone else is driving, then you can go elsewhere. If the group as a whole feels uncomfortable with an individual, that individual should be ostracized (sp?) from the group. I know some people have felt uncomfortable on some of my fun-runs, and they themselves choose not to come back. So it's time to stand up and act like adults and make the grown-up decisions on how, with who and where you motor.


Hey, if someone left your fun runs, I need to join them!! Only drives I like are "spirited" ones......and yes, its like bad TV.....there ain't any if you don't watch it.....

 

>>>>To me it's partly who you choose to motor with. Remember, you get to pick where and who you go with. If you feel uncomfortable with the way someone else is driving, then you can go elsewhere. If the group as a whole feels uncomfortable with an individual, that individual should be ostracized (sp?) from the group. I know some people have felt uncomfortable on some of my fun-runs, and they themselves choose not to come back. So it's time to stand up and act like adults and make the grown-up decisions on how, with who and where you motor.
>>
>>Hey, if someone left your fun runs, I need to join them!! Only drives I like are "spirited" ones......

Hmmmm.... I think the people who motored with me on my fun-runs here in AZ would find your statement intriguing.

 

>>>>>>To me it's partly who you choose to motor with. Remember, you get to pick where and who you go with. If you feel uncomfortable with the way someone else is driving, then you can go elsewhere. If the group as a whole feels uncomfortable with an individual, that individual should be ostracized (sp?) from the group. I know some people have felt uncomfortable on some of my fun-runs, and they themselves choose not to come back. So it's time to stand up and act like adults and make the grown-up decisions on how, with who and where you motor.
>>>>
>>>>Hey, if someone left your fun runs, I need to join them!! Only drives I like are "spirited" ones......
>>
>>Hmmmm.... I think the people who motored with me on my fun-runs here in AZ would find your statement intriguing.

i am definetely a scoff law of the first degree when it comes to speeding in deserted back country roads........the Painted Desert, for instance ROCKS!!!! did it in a Suburban and it was awesome.......

 

Good discussions.
I don't like fast frantic driving. Every drive I have attended (except one post drive with less than the full group) was sensible speeds.

I was extremely impressed with the organization of the recent Reservoir Dogs Run which had around 90 MINIs. They split into three groups, each with a lead and a tail; sorted MINIs into slower at the front, quicker at the back; led us through amazing countryside and I have not heard anyone complain ...
I took my place between the middle and the front of a group, and had no problem with speed, overtaking or anything else.

Praise to Gene and the other organizers.

 

>>

Just yesterday there was a SPEED channel show that showed the hosts testing some 350Z cars. They drove across the yellow line just like this. Geez!!! Don't these cars have good suspension packages so they can stay on their own side of the road?!?!?!

 

I still want to know who took the picture.....the driver???? Sure looks like it to me....which takes the matter to a whole other level of "scofflawing" over talking on a cell phone.........
So now not only do we have people who talk on the phone, read books, put on mascara, lipstick, zip up their pants.....we also have people shooting pictures while driving down highly dangerous two lane roads with people passing them!!! Wow!!! Brilliant.......

 

The picture was taken by someone standing on the shoulder, not from another motorist in a car heading the other direction.

 

So the Subaru isn't really passing anyone he is just being a dammed fool by being on the wrong side of the road as oppossed to being and imbecile passing into a turn across a double yellow line? That's a relief???? Or maybe he got spooked by the photographer standing on the side of the road and moved over to be away from a pedestrian on a small shoulder? The thick plottens.......more info is needed to decipher this dark deed.......

 

No shame in putting your turn signal on and moving over....happens all the time in Endurance racing..........letting people pass you safely is part of any motoring experience.......

 

There ARE times when we are required to pass, going on the wrong side of the road, but that's not really "supposed" to mean over the solid double line! Broken lines are cool to cross over, but not the solid ones! Just my .02! LOL!


Clo/Wanda

 

>>So the Subaru isn't really passing anyone he is just being a dammed fool by being on the wrong side of the road as oppossed to being and imbecile passing into a turn across a double yellow line? That's a relief???? Or maybe he got spooked by the photographer standing on the side of the road and moved over to be away from a pedestrian on a small shoulder? The thick plottens.......more info is needed to decipher this dark deed.......


Unless I've gone blind that photo was made on Hwy 129, lovingly known as The Dragon. This particular car was probably apexing the curve in a most reckless fashion, being that this curve is in fact a blind curve and the scoobie could not possibly know what is coming from the other direction. I have made photos from the exact same spot this photographer is standing. Bad scoobie, no bisket.

 

Totally agree it is a moronic move....what is good is that at least it is not the ultimate moronic move and the guy is doing what he is doing AND passing someone!! :smile: Them subaru drivers....they are all alike......