During the first year to year and a half I owned my MINI I went on a lot of group drives. Now, they scare me.

The group drives I've seen and read about concern me because of the mix of people trying to keep up with the group on public roads. Some people have autocrossed or have track time, others are brand new to driving in a "spirited" way. There are people who just got their MINIs who haven't driven a car this capable before (raising my own hand here). In the group, there are people who recognized they don't know their limits and hang back, and those that are (over?) confident in their abilities. The group inevitably gets separated and people get antsy to catch-up. Now mix in weekend traffic on curvy mountain roads with limited sight visibility. I have seen some very dangerous attempts at passing (crossing the double yellow line in a blind corner ) and there has also been a lot of tailgating (both MINIs on the drive tailgating the general public, and MINI drivers tailgating other MINI drivers).

All in all, it's a dangerous mix, and unfortunately I think we're going to have a situation soon where someone gets killed or severely injured at a MINI meet.

Based on my experience (both what I've seen and what I've read about on the forum), I don't plan to attend another group drive. Sad to say that I just don't feel comfortable being on group drives any more.

Anyone else have concerns like this?

Dave

 

That's a valid concern Dave. I am usually one of the spirited drivers but I still drive with respect. Tailgating is a BIG no-no, as is blind passing. Club events are easier to control but open drives like the dragon are kinda a come as you are event. Some people drive like maniacs and others much less so. I still enjoy participating in group drives and will continue to do so but I always remember what my father always said, "drive defensively."

 

Oh my. That is scary. I think I'm with ya on that. No group drives for me!
*Note* just spoke to Mini of The Hamptons and we are working on getting me my Lucy!

 

I've only been on one group drive (Litchfield, CT), and it was definitely spirited, and probably the most aggressively that I've driven my car, at least for a sustained period. It was ridiculously fun, but in retrospect, there's at least one section that I would slow up for just a bit. I definitely wouldn't hesitate to do another run, although the guilt by association factor would be interesting if someone else did get injured or worse.
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group drives are dangerous imo too. too many people trying to show-off or
for the first time taking the car to his/her (not the car's) limit.

I don't mind attending as long as people follow rules or it is more of a
scenic drive thing... or even a BBQ get together or something non-moving.

:smile:

 

I like group drives however I see your concern. It only takes one incident to turn some part of the community away, be it MINI or where you are driving. Regardless of group drive or not, you will have people outdriving both their cars and their cars' limits. Generally though, you know that the people in a group drive care about thier car...whereas on the road you can't be so sure...

 

I enjoy group rides and drives but you do need to be aware of what is going on around you. Even more important is what is going on inside you. Be honest with yourself. If you are hanging on for dear life with your cheeks(lower cheeks) you are in over your head. The track is the place for a ride like that. I ride with a group that uses a technique called "The Pace." Nothing eliminates all the risk but you can certainly take steps to reduce it. I will paste a link to an article on "The Pace"

I hope you will find it interesting. http://www.ridehsta.com/html/safety.htm#pace

 

I've been on group drives for 20-some years now, and you certainly can't predict how every driver is going to act, so you have to set an example yourself sometimes. I usually try to lead at least some of the way, and generally I drive at a moderate, but spirited pace. Admitedly, I've gotten a little of the hot-shoe sometimes, and in a MINI it's AWFUL hard not to go fast, so I try not to judge other people too harshly. In the old days with the 1275S, I would just let the other guys go on ahead - it wasn't worth it to try and catch 'em, and they didn't give a damn about what was on the road ahead, no matter what you said. They WERE scary, and although none of 'em croaked, their Minis needed a LOT of rebuilds.

That being said, there are some new MINI drivers who are just squirrelly regardless of who they drive with, and they worry me the most. Most other drivers of other vehicles have no idea how fast a MINI can be in the twisties, and this is when an error of judgement on their part collides with the arrogant driving of some MINI driver some day. I was out on the backroads alone recently, and even tho I wasn't driving fast, the MINI is just way faster than an SUV, or the idiot trying to stay ahead of me in a fully loded minivan, who almost lost it twice - and I wasn't even trying hard. Go figure.

Most of the drives I've been on have been fairly sedate for a MINI most of the time, and usually there are sections that you can go fast without guilt. Maybe the groups I've driven with in Brooksie are more careful. I noticed the worst seems to happen with combined marque drives - who's got more macho, or something along those lines. Don't be worried about a group drive - be yourself and be careful, that's all. Give it whirl.

BCNU,
Rob in Dago

 

I've been on a couple of drives as a co-pilot and the biggest problem I see is a lack of pre-drive instruction and misconceptions. More tentative drivers "hanging-back" is the WORST thing they can do. The slower, or less "enthusiastic" drivers need to be up front, the faster/crazier drivers in the rear. Why? Because the leader of the drive will usually keep a relatively steady pace of a few mph above the speed limit - spirited, but not crazy in my experience. The faster drivers will want to go way faster - like double the limit or more. Therefore, the faster drivers will hang back approaching a set of twisties to let the front group get ahead, then charge through the curves to catch up. BUT, if you get a more sedate driver in the middle of them, things get all out of whack and spread out, not to mention frustrated drivers and a ton of tailgating.

This sort of thing needs to be talked about at the beginning of the drive and talked about during each stop. If you find yourself getting dropped because you don't want to drive as fast as the guys in front and behind you, try to get as close to the leader as you can.

Likewise, when organizing a run, your "sweep" driver should be a fairly aggressive driver so they won't get dropped, providing everything goes right.

 

This is a important topic that really needs to be discussed - thanks Dave or bringing it up.

In our Chicago club I'd like to think we've set a good precedent on what to do and what not to do on the group drives. This coupled with long and boring reminders (usually by me :smile on why we all don't need to get through the same red light seems to help as well.

 

I have read at least one horror story regarding an M3 driver that was killed on a spirited group drive. I would say some of the more "insane" driving occurs when the meet is done, and we're all racing home (and some speeding tickets issued as well) I've been on a few drives here in the NY/NJ/PA metro area, they seemed pretty controlled for the most part. But I suspect some get caught up in the spirit of seeing what our cars can do.

I would like to see more events where we pop open the hoods and check out mods and talk shop. Take some cool pics and stuff like that.

 

Dan,

Weren't you one of the people that got a ticket on the Palisades Parkway. (LOL)

 

There was already a group drive where someone drove (does that work imply control?) their Dark Silver MINI down a hillside. I remember seeing the post on Roadfly about a year or so ago. Anyone remember the circumstances a little better?

 

Dave,

I remember that story. The driver was taking a turn too fast, had to correct for an oncoming vehicle that came over the line, I think, and he went over the side and down an embankment, saved by the trees and brush, when he lost control. His MINI was wrecked, but he was able to climb out of it. And, thankfully, someone witnessed the incident and let the group know. The part I cannot remember, though, was whether or not he had his DSC on. I know that Donna of Donna/Mike was on that run. She'll know the facts.

As for group drives: I've been on quite a few, now. I actually prefer smaller, more private runs of 3-5 cars, and recommend that in the big Meets, the organizers send out pods of drivers of no larger than 5 MINIs per pod at a time, every 3 minutes or so. That way, y'all can usually make it through traffic signals in your little pod. However, I am really uncomfortable with the amount of tail-gating I see by MINI-drivers. We really need to leave a little safety gap, people!

Also, I cannot stress enough how important the radios are (always set on 7:21)! Great for relaying traffic conditions and keeping the stragglers connected to the peppier drivers.


Clo/Wanda

 

IMO there are two ideal sizes for group drives:

3-5 cars: fun and small enough that you don't get strung out, plus there is a good chance to figure out who wants to lead, follow, and be the end of the train.

50+ cars: large enough that no one really expects to go fast

The most dangerous size in my experience is 20-25 cars. It's large enough to be dangeous and small enough that some members still want to go fast.

as I have said before: You Can't Have A Fast Parade

Dave

 

Not I...but I can think of a few that got nailed on the Taconic and the Palisades.

 

I've been on some drives with 2 or 3 MINI's, and they are definitely fun and manageable.

 

Dan,

I wask joking as I know you obey the laws, but some of us didn't and they were subject to law inforcement! (lol)

 

They could have nailed me on the Taconic (Law Inforcement that is) Depends on what they see as excessive, I guess. C'mon, I speed when the traffic allows. I think it's when they clock you alone going 107 that might cause a problem.

The setup of Ocktcooperfest in NJ was nice - I missed the auto-x, but saw the car show. Good way for folks to get to meet each other for a bit. On the group drives, it's tougher because of scheduling and such. The Bucks County Run was the last drive I was on - seemed nicely planned, and the cars were split in 2 groups. Most people had 2 - way radios (as MINIclo stated - helps alot)

 

To Counterpoint - not all group drives consist of Motorers that feel the itch to violate speed limits or go beyond what may be considered "normal" daily driving. Of the handful of drives I've coordinated with Michigan MINI, we have always emphasized your own personal pace; it is why we have Talkabouts. Because of the nature of long trains of vehicles (and how the caboose always has to catch up), I always integrate regular rest stops to allow the backmarkers to regroup if they've gotten behind the main pack.

 

I was on a group drive of sorts with about 100 trucks. The group was led by a guy with aftermarket nav being that nobody knew where we were headed.

After about 40 trucks had pulled out, the lead guy came to intersection and didnt know which way to go, so he stopped, causing the whole group to stop. A young kid partially showing off and partially trying to play catchup pulled out of the lot and floored it, crested the hill and saw 40 trucks there. He stepped on the brakes but it wasnt enough.

Nobody was seriously injurred but there was an ambulance needed and both trucks were total losses. Adding to mess, the guy that got rearended was from California and we were in Michigan and the guy that did the rearending was 17 and from Indiana but was being chaparoned by a family friend.

I still go on an occasional group drive but I'll always be the tailgunner.

--
Cheese

 

Hey guys,

72.5 hours till delivery I did go on a few drives with the MI Corvette Club, and we used talkabout radios. For the most part, the drives were pretty calm. Quick (sometimes exceeding the limit by say 5-10MPH), but generally smooth.
Also, a meticously planned route and planned stop points/approx times helps quite a bit.

However, we had to call one off because two guys decided to show everyone their new NOS setup on the highways. When one cut me off merging on 696 (demonstrating NOS) I was forced onto the shoulder. I stopped going to their events. The group stopped drives for a while...

Please everyone, a nice quick drive is fine- but don't do stupid & blatantly illegal sh$%. Do you want your car and others ruined? All it takes is one person screwing it up, and thats it... Damaged cars, no more drives.

Flipside, tho, get familiar with your car, how it drives, controls, etc. Also know YOUR limits, knowing that the car can do helps- what what are YOU comfortable with?

 

Pre-Drive Driver's Meeting ephasising safety and reviewing the route: Check
Radios (7 sub 21): Check
Maps and Directions: Check
Stated Regroup Points: Check
Divide into Small Groups: Check

I've been on drives with all of those and still had problems with members on the drive that were tailgating other MINIs and other drivers, passing on double yellow in corners, and excessively speeding (even 15 over I don't have a problem with, but 25mph+ over in a group, that's a problem).

 

>>Pre-Drive Driver's Meeting ephasising safety and reviewing the route: Check
>>Radios (7 sub 21): Check
>>Maps and Directions: Check
>>Stated Regroup Points: Check
>>Divide into Small Groups: Check
>>
>>I've been on drives with all of those and still had problems with members on the drive that were tailgating other MINIs and other drivers, passing on double yellow in corners, and excessively speeding (even 15 over I don't have a problem with, but 25mph+ over in a group, that's a problem).
>>

Those are great points, I think the more radios the better. Each group needs 1 or 2 radios would be best; for the front of the group and back of the group.

It might be good to also keep MCS's and MC grouped. No need to make all the MC's floor it to keep up with the S's

 

hahahahahahaha....as much as I wanted to hold my thoughts on this statement...




I'm sure I was holding up things...surprised there was no double line passing to get around the snail like Cooper...

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