None of you has mentioned one key factor: insurance. All normal insurance policies have exlusions for what what used to be generally referred to as "competitive or timed events" (the actual language varies).

In case of a claim you are likely to be on very shaky ground if lap timing has been allowed, which is one of the reasons that many organizers, including the BMW CCA, for whom I instruct, do not allow organized timing. Obviously there's no chronometer police, so we can't control individual in-car timing with a stopwatch. But the organizers renting out timing transponders would be a GIANT red flag to any insurance company. At those weekends featuring both a Club Race and a Driver School we have separate staff and entirely different rules for each.

A number of insurance companies now exclude coverage for any form of driving on a race track, timed/competitive or not. Have you read your policy?

I suggest that before making plans for track days you ask yourself the following questions:
1) What does your insurance policy exclude?
2) What are the safety procedures and history of the organizer?
3) Does the organizer allow any activities which might adversely affect your insurance coverage?
4) Can you afford to replace/repair your car at your own expense if you stuff it?
5) Who has more lawyers, you or your insurance company?

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3 - Track car

 

The very first track day I ever did was with a NSX group. I was asking them all the novice questions, and one guy leaned over and said "if you cant afford to leave it here and ride home with someone else, you should go home"

harsh, but honest advice...

 

That is because this is a thread about who goes to which track days. :impatient
There are plenty of considerations that would warrant their own thread.

 

Thanks for the info. I'm thinking about doing an autocross (had 0 previous experience) first, since this one looks really close,
http://www.motorsportreg.com/calenda...7875D816AD604A

What do you think? BMWCCA also requires a yearly membership. Is it a good club to join in to get started?

 

Then you've missed the point: your choice of whose track days you go to may determine whether your car has any insurance coverage or not.

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

It seems more that the consideration would be which insurance company to choose. There is no reason to buy from a company that tries to exclude coverage for trackdays and changing companies is easy enough.

There are plenty of other considerations that one could take in to account that one might start a thread about. We could talk about health insurance and warrenty coverage and who knows what?

The point of this thread is which track days are the Minis on NAM going to.

So do many Minis show up at BMW CCS?

 

Yes, quite a few these days. They range from bone stock to heavily modded and arriving by trailer. Current BMW's seem to be getting too large, too heavy and too expensive for track use.

Once you get over the fact that a Mini likely won't have the straight line speed of some of the other cars, you can have a lot of fun catching them up in the twisties.

Neil
05 MCS - Not track car (but who knows...?)
96 M3 - Track car

 

^^ got any pics of your bm?

 

Here we are at Putnam Park last year. My student seems to be having fun!

Neil

PS: So how do I get an inline graphic rather than and attached thumbnail?

 

You do it like this. You click on the link in the upload window and it opens the picture in a new window and you copy and paste the url here using the picture icon above. So which one is you? Those M3's sure are big. That one can't seem keep the front tire on the ground either.

 

Ah, thanks.

I'm in the full-face helmet, driving. The pic was taken by a professional photog at Putnam Park, near Indianapolis during a BMW school.

Just trying to economize on tire wear...

Neil
05 MCS
96 M3

 

I have signed up for GGC BMWCCA's autocross on this Sunday, I checked their past results and only located a couple of Minis, but almost none for the recent months, anyway looking forward to seeing more this time.

 

In my somewhat limited experience, not a lot of Bay Area Minis show up at autocrosses, 3-4 show up with any regularity at SFR SCCA events, American Auto-X series seems to be 1, Sacramento SCCA hard to say, rounds 1 and 2 were 3 and 2 respectively. Norcal UFO I was the only Mini there for the ones I've been to. The Fresno SCCA chapter seems to have a decent amount show up. The Calendar at the SFR SCCA site shows most of the Autocrosses in the area (just uncheck the Show SFR SCCA Events ONLY box).

This weekend is the American Autocross Series rounds 9 and 10 in Atwater at Castle Airport, Sacramento SCCA rounds 3 and 4 at Mather Airfield near Sacramento, and the BMWCCA thing in Marina.

-Carl

URL references:

http://www.sfrscca.org/solo2/
http://www.americanauto-x.com/
http://www.norcalufo.org/

 

Carl thanks for the links, they make my bookmarks messier than ever, I'm looking forward to meeting another Purple. Any particular reasons you chose those runs? Why do ppl seem to ignore the one closest to home?

 

I tend to go to the SFR Events more than the others. Different venues offer different challenges and more seat time is always nice as well. For me the SFR events are normally the closests (Oakland Coliseum, Monster Park and occasionally Marina), with the Sacramento rounds being next closest (normally in Stockton, this weekend is a special charity event). After that.. Marina and Atwater are both equidistant from me Atwater events have more room to work with than Marina, so that lends itself to faster courses, while Marina ones (that I've experienced so far) have been more technical.


Since this is my first season autocrossing, I'm running around doing a whole lot of them, just to get more experience. Next year I will probably be more focused and sane

 

Well I'm signed up for the Willow Springs big track event with Speedventures on July 1. It should be fun. Hope it isn't to hot or windy.

www.speedventures.com

 

See you there MCLeonard. Come set up camp next to us. I'll be in the dark silver MCS, next to a white Sentra SE-R, white 911, and silver 911.

 

Sounds good. I'll be looking for you.

 

McLeonard -- glad you had a good time at Buttonwillow. I must admit, however, that has to be the worst event I've run. I was unhappy with the flagger situation (I paid for a better crew to show up, who went to Pahrump at the last minute and I was not informed -- plus, there was a flagger missing!) and with the general management of the track. That started my whole day off wrong and I'm sure it showed. But our events at Thunderhill are top notch, so I hope you can make it to one of those (Sept. 1st and November 17th). We've only had one event (a weekender) at Reno so far, but it turned out well, I know the track personnel from racing there, and I have hired a great flagger team. It should be awesome.

As far as what Neil said about insurance -- VERY good points when deciding on a track day venue. We won't rent out transponders specifically because then we would be in a nutshell promoting a timed event. Most insurance policies exclude timed / competition events, including sedate autocrosses (by comparison). We had a Honda Civic eat some tire wall at Buttonwillow a couple of months ago. I had to talk extensively to his insurance company, but he wound up being covered for the damage because this was an untimed event and he had an instructor in the car with him. So yes, by all means, be careful of your selection. But even if you know you are insured, still keep that thing in mind about 'if you can't afford to stuff it, don't bring it.' I hope this never happens to any of us, but it is a reality that must be faced with any track event -- timed or not.

BW

 

Hey Bonni nice to hear from you. I remember that you were hustleing to get the show going at Buttonwillow. I think it turned out well after all. I am looking forward to Fernley in August.

Thanks for the info on insurance. It's good that you were able to help the guy out. I don't put a timer in the Mini for the reasons you mention but I did have one on my track only motorcycle which couldn't be insured anyway.

 

MCLeonard -- you can have a timer in your Mini, so long as YOU (or a friend, for that matter) supply the timer and the receiver. This would still cover you in an accident. But if *I* were to supply a timer, or even a receiver, the insurance company would look at it as a timed event. This is why I don't rent out timers.

BW