I don't really know the answers to your questions. I suspect the HIFI amp is set up to compensate for the crap OEM speakers. So, it produces an odd frequency response curve with good speakers. There is a thread here somewhere about a guy who got Infinity Kappas and did some analysis. He found that the amp really did bad things with them. Kappas are bright speakers, as are Focals, so you may be getting the same effect. I'm just speculating.

There is an app for the iPhone called RTA that will measure the spectral response. Download some pink noise mp3, burn a CD, and see what you get with RTA compared to how it plays on a good quality home system. Might give you a clue about what's happening. On the other hand, it might be a pointless excercise.

I chose Image Dynamics speakers because they have silk tweeters and are reputed to be more mellow than Focals. I didn't like the overly bright results I got with Kappas & the HIFI amp. So, shied away from Focals. However, I installed an Image Dynamics amp at the same time, so can't really make a comparison. Too many variables changed.

I suspect you are going to want to install an amp. I suffered with the HIFI amp and Kappas for quite awhile before I made the decision. The ID setup is great, and I enjoyed the project.

 

So the bottom line would be: Replacing the stock speakers with aftermarket will just screw the HiFi system even more? Ive been wanting to do the change and was thinking of Infinnity since they are 2ohm speakers. Now I really dont know what to do I definetely dont want to replace the stock amp. Any other 2ohm speaker suggestions?

 

You can use 4 ohm speakers if their efficiency rating is above 91 db. Such as the Focal http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_10613.html
or the Hertz 163, of which I bought a set but have yet to install. Another member has them installed. They are about 92 or 93db and should be plenty loud with the stock amp. Can be found on eBay or else local car stereo store. Others have noted the stock amp has the same power at 4 ohms as 2 ohms. Note that a 3db difference in efficiency rating makes the speaker twice as loud!

 

I wouldn't say that. The Kappas with the HIFI amp were clearer than the muddy stock speakers, but they were probably not nearly as good as the Kappas would be with a better amp. Too harsh for my ears.

You could look through the Crutchfield web page for 6.5" and matching 4" speakers. They don't have to be 2 ohm if they are 92 db in sensitivity at 1 watt. Polk Audio db401, and db6501 might be good. I haven't heard them, but Polk speakers have a reputation for being on the mellow side. So, might go better with the HIFI than the Kappas did.

 

Regarding Focals, there are counterfeits as well as greay market Focals around, and Focal is very picky about who sells them, and at what price. I would worry about ebay sources having counterfeits.

Woofersetc.com, where I got my Image Dynamics stuff, has Focals, but they are grey market and Focal will not warranty them.

I've not heard Focals with a HIFI amp. Some people seem to like them a lot, but Focals are noted for being bright. So, I went with Image Dynamics instead.

 

Hi MINI MX...
Don't take my experience and comments as your guide.

I >thought< the focal 165A3's would be ok as some people had mentioned them as ok (wrong!), and I didn't want to stump up for $850 for the 'official' 165vr3s... I took a leap and 'failed'.

That said...

a) my 165A3s still go up way higher volume than the stock before experiencing the problem I have noted (and all the way, they still sound way better!)

b) the install of the speakers is pretty easy for anyone half tech-savvy. (it's easier and less nerve wracking than the simple subwoofer (Boss600) install, which still isn't too bad). If I had installed the front speakers first, then I probably wouldn't even have gone for the subwoofer.

c) I may even live with my current setup. It's ok at lower volumes (still louder than old speakers) and I can't get a clear answer on whether there is a 'simple' amplifier swap out.

So, bottom line...I still think you're ok if you go with some speakers that those guys are recommending, and I think you'll find it very worthwhile

 

Thanks for the input Clutchless, Robin and Paul.

I will tell you what I would like to achieve and Im still digging through threads trying to solve the puzzle:

- I hate the muddy sound of the stock speakers.

- I have the volume cranked up all the way and still on some songs I feel I need more volume (most of the time I use my ipod, if I try to turn up the aux volume music gets way way too distorted)

- The stock twitters are very harsh. If I turn down the trebble the music sounds dull.

Im no sound expert. So if you guys tell me that with any aftermarket speaker (infinity, polk, etc) I could just get a little bit more volume, more clarity and less distortion, then I will go for it

Thanks for your help..!!

 

"Less mud, a bit o' bass, and a tad more volume without distortion!"

That's why most of us are here!

I'm not going to recommend speakers... (I clearly don't have a track record in that dept).
I recommend that you specify the price-range you have in mind and whether you're comfortable with going with 'unauthorized' (but still seemingly kosher companies) or only with 'manufacturer approved' internet dealers.

I did notice your comment about 'aux volume'... on the ipod side you are using the 'apple' connector, right?? (and not the 'headphone jack'). If this isn't the case... get one of the 'y-cables'... I believe they are a jump up in sound quality (note: I put the USB end of the y into a cig-lighter usb port; the USB port built in to the MINIs isn't powerful enough for an iphone 3GS... it may be ok for an ipod).

 

Hi Paul,

I think I will go with the Infinity Reference series (cheapest, renowned brand option). Component for both 6.5" and 4". The speakers on the lowers should get only bass from the HiFi from what Ive read. The uppers will get full range. Hope the extra twitters dont mess things up.

I use Ipod. I have the OEM Y-cable. I cant turn the aux vol over the middle since music starts to get distorted. All my music is over 160kpbs. I dont know if it has something to do with the stock amp or the lousy stock speakers.

Same as you I will take a leap of faith. Hopefully I will achieve a little bit more volume, less distortion and more clarity.

 

I think one of the secrets to success in getting the most out of the Mini's sound system is just what you're doing -- using the Y cable, and getting the input level as high as you can without clipping the front-end electronics.

I also think one of the other secrets is enjoying the sound of the engine, and the sounds of happy, squealing tires!

Have fun--

 

Make sure your iPod has the volume limiter turned off in the iPod settings. I ran mine at maximum volume. Otherwise, I couldn't get decent volume out of the HIFI amp (before I upgraded to a better amp).

After-market speakers will not increase the volume you can get through the HIFI amp. When I first installed the Kappas, I did the rear first, and the Kappas had less volume than the stock speakers. The difference was so great it was difficult to run them together. Front-to-back balance had to be adjusted almost all the way. So, don't look to speakers to solve your volume problem.

If your volume problem is not with the settings on your iPod, you will need an aftermarket amp to get the volume that you want. However, I suspect it is with the iPod. My HIFI amp would produce ear damaging levels with the factory speakers or the Kappas.

Infinity speakers are known to be on the bright side. If you don't like the harshness of the OEM tweeters, you wont like the Infinity tweeters. If you want more mellow highs, look for silk tweeters.

Almost anything will be less muddy than the OEM speakers.

 

The Polk MM6501 are 2.7 ohms and a component set with a 6.5 woofer and separate tweeter: http://signature.crutchfield.com/s_1...501.html?tp=95 Available for less elsewhere.
Not sure what to use for the 3.5 inch upper doors as Polk does not make one that size in the MM series.

 

I found 3.5" to be too small for the upper speaker location. I used 4" Kappas and they fit fine. Currently, I have the tweeters for the Image Dynamics CXS64 V.2 in the upper location.

 

Robin, I just tried this. My Ipod (dont know what version) doesnt have the option to turn the volume limiter off. You can adjust a bar up or down. Played with it for a while with the same results. I just left it at maximum on the ipod and midway on the aux volume.
I will give it a try with the infinity reference series. Can get both sets for around $150, no biggie.

 

Good day to all,

I would like to improove the quality of the sound in my Cooper S (R6) without amplificator. I hesitate between :
-FOCAL ACCESS 1 165A3 (3 ways kit)
-FOCAL POLYGLAS 165VR (2 ways kit)

The price is quite similar but the quality is better with the Polyglqss series and the sensitivity is about 94dB !!! Do you think that the power is enought to use the 3 ways kit ?

Please advise

 

You might want to search for threads about these speakers. I believe people here have used both. If you can find a report on the 165A3 and HIFI amp, it might have info about whether there was enough power for them.

I would gravitate towards the 3 way kit for the HIFI amp so there was something to handle the midrange. I don't recall seeing a good analysis of what frequencies are sent to the lower door speaker, but my impression is that it mostly gets bass. So, if you put in just a 2-way system, you might lose the midrange. This is just my concern. I don't have hard data.

The other thing you could do is ask a tech at Crutchfield whether the Focal Polyglass 100 CVX would work with the 165VR

 

Do NOT do the 165A3. I have just installed them. I get 'static' when I crank it up high with some material (especially from my iphone). Apparently this is 'clipping' from the amplifier because it is underpowered for those speakers with 90db sensitivity.

The amp is only >just< underpowered. (much material is ok, and the problem is better after 20 minutes or so, i'm assuming because the amp gets warm and more efficient). But enough to say "Don't do it!".
I'm looking to see if I can do a straight replace for the amp with something, but haven't found a good thread yet.

 

The Focal Polyglass 100 CVX is only 90 db sensitivity and is probably too deep. I will add that on the Hertz HSK 163 that I got the middle speaker is only 3 inches. However it is will fit in the www.urbanmini.com mounting plate, or make your own. http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/default_en.htm
http://www.audison.de/hertz/high_energy/hsk163.htm

Or the DLS C36 3 way system may fit (94db sensitivity) but the mid may be too deep. http://www.dls.se/en/car/prod.html?produkt=en_57 Found for sale here: http://www.mobiletronicsusa.com/Prod...roductCode=C36 and here http://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/performancec36.aspx

They make several other 3 way systems higher in price, http://www.dealercostcaraudio.com/reference63.aspx.

 

Thank to all for your replies.

For your information, I have not the Hifi system, just BOOST CD. If I well understood, I have to choose the solution which have the best sensitivity (polyglass 165VR with 94dB). Is it true ?

 

I think you need to consider adding an amp.

 

I see you reference Dealer Cost Audio in your post. As a fellow NAM'er, I just want you to know that several of us have had VERY bad experiences with this company (see here). Just wanted to warn you - this was a while ago and maybe they have gotten their sh*t together since, but I will never order from them again. Just FYI - order at your own risk.

 

Thanks. I bought a set of Hertz HSK163 speakers new in the box from a guy at the do it yourself audio forum. A steal at $165 delivered! When it warms up in March or April I will install them.

 

Glad it worked out for you. Good luck on the install!

 

Robin speaks the truth when he says "don't look to (replacement) speakers to solve your volume problems". I just replaced my front speakers with aftermarkets (no amp, non-hifi stereo system) and the stock speakers were "louder". To my ear, they were tweaked to the high end to make them seem louder, when they really are just brighter. The stock speakers lack depth. With the aftermarket speakers (and I didn't spend a lot, Image Dynamics CTX4 and CTX6), the music is much fuller and I can hear parts of the music now that I couldn't hear before. I look forward to swapping the rears at some point. The new speakers get pretty loud, but at a given volume setting, they don't seem as loud. With the car sealed (windows up, sunroof closed), I can get it as loud as I can stand, even without an amp. The reproduced music in the car, without an amp, lacks the "punch" of a live performance however.

if you want better sound and you want the music to have some punch....you'll need new speakers, amp(s) and probably a sub. There just isn't any getting around it.