I have spent a lot of time looking at posts on the HK upgrade here and elsewhere, and have not come across any conclusive answers regarding quality of the system. I live 70+ miles from my nearest dealer, and have not yet had time to audition the system. I am hoping to do so this weekend.

My question is directed at anyone considering themselves an audiophile, or coming from expeience with better equipment. I like to listen to just about anything, but I am not into 'bumping'. My last few systems have been with Nakamichi head units/amps and MB quart speakers, and they have sounded great with classical and/or jazz. Can I expect anything close to this from the HK if tweaked correctly? Also for those that have it, have you been happy long term, or did you later upgrade?

The pluses for HK for me are that it is already done/installed, and that it is stock (for warranty, insurance, etc...). However, for the ~$1100 for the HK and Sirrius package, I could get a good start on an upgraded system. Any thoughts on my situation would be appreciated. Hopefully, I'll get to audition the HK this weekend.

 

The HK is great for a "from the factory" system but you won't find any "audiophile" quality system for $550. Look towards a VERY expensive aftermarket setup to get near audiophile quality.

However, you MUST audition an HK system to see if it's good enough for you as sounds are very subjective (and do it on a test drive!). That being said, it's more than good enough for most people. Expect clean sound but you won't get ear-bleeding volumes.

 

Exactly

 

To answer your questions from one audiophile to the next (I've got Forte pre/power amp, Nakamichi MB1 CD player, Aerial Acoustics 5B spkrs, Tara Labs cable, etc.) the HK upgraded system is.... all right IF you want to do a few tweaks yourself. I've got an 2005 MCS with the HK upgraded stereo that I've had since December and I had the same dilemma you're having right now. So far I've had to install Hush Mat and felt inside my door panel, which has done wonders for improving audio quality and the famous speaker rattle. I also burn my car audio disks a little hotter with iTunes to achieve a little more headroom on the HK volume (or lack there of). I also have a pair of JL Audio component speakers that I'm going to replace my fronts with this weekend. So in answering your question(s), you probably will have to spend at least eight hundred plus on aftermarket stereo equipment (including install) for a significant improvement over the stock HK. BUT... if you get the HK, YOU WILL (most likely) have to tweak/modify the system speakers yourself as well. For what it's worth, taking the front door panel off now takes me a whole two minutes and is very, very easy. By the way, all of the above tweaks/fixes/mods listed above I found first on this forum. Thanks all you other MINI freaks out there.

 

I used to work at a 24 track recording studio as an engineer (still have my golden ears) so here is my two cents:

Is it "audiophile" quality, uhhh, no not quite. Is it very good, yes.

First of all, volume. If loud rap music and winning contests on who can crank it the loudest is your thing. Forget it. Plenty loud for me, and plenty of power to play loud without distortion, but no way near winning contests type loud. But I'll assume that's probably not your thing.

I agree with Mobster, the right (passenger) door rattles. Must fix it, but seems to only be sticking some felt in the door (http://www.jwardell.com/mini/hkdoor.html for nice instructions on the fix). I'm planning on doing that next week.

The bass is a little muddled. They do make that Stealthbox subwoofer for the MINI that can work with the H/K, but I can not say how that works. The biggest thing to me is lack of any fine tuning of the eq. You have bass and treble, that's it. I'm going to try to see if I can stick a passive eq in there somewhere. I think I'd be pretty happy with it if I did.

Overall, it's not as good as the about $1200 system I have in my Jeep Liberty, but at $500 it's really, really good. And with the MINI (and the Alta CAI) I find myself often turning the stereo off and listening to the beautiful music of the car! Seriously, just try it out, while driving, with the music/talk radio you like. If you don't like it get the stock system and gut it, as it's supposedly really hard to use the H/K amp and speakers with a different head unit.

- John Connor

PS - If you get the H/K, do NOT order the AUX in for $200 installed. Buy it as a seperate part for $40. All you do if open the access panel under the steering wheel (it just pops open) and plug the AUX cable into the back of the H/K unit. Takes 10 seconds, no kidding. Then you have the option of mounting the jack where ever you want to, not where the installer decides to put it.

 

Mobster, once you get them in, I would definitely like to hear your opinion on JL Audio front speakers you are going to be installing as to how they compare to the original H/K setup.

As far as Bass goes, with the H/K, it was too much for me (too muddy) so I have actually turned the bass down a few clicks and have the fader biased to the front. I can still feel it in my chest with the right music if I really get on it, but it sounds tighter and more realistic.

Edit: Also, I would advise purchasing the Sirius module direct from Classic Mini as it is about $200 and the install is not worth what they wnat for it by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Remember that audio is subjective, and none of us can decide for you what 'good enough' really is. Try to hear the HK system and aftermarket stuff in the shops the same day, so the systems are fresh in your mind. Bring your favorite cds with you, especially mp3s so you can judge playback of noncommercial stuff. I like to audition with symphonic music, because if I can hear certain instruments jumping out at me, the system goes on my short list. And if a system handles a 65 piece symphonic orchestra well, it's going to do my small jazz and vocals and 60,70,80s rock just fine!

The ones I've heard in stereo shops blew the HK away. Primarily clarity and a fuller presence, and the bass sounded clean, not processed like the HK. Like you, I'm into classical and jazz and do not have to be heard thumping down the street 3 blocks away! Needless to say, a sub-woofer is not in my aftermarket plans.

Internet buying is the way to save $$$. For $600 or $700, you can buy excellent speakers, head unit and amplifier. Of course, if you're not doing the install yourself, add at least another few hundred $$$ to your internet prices, depending on how much they get where you live..IF you can find a shop with MINI experience that will do the install without insisting on selling you the equipment. Here in NJ, I was able to. They say they'll do the hu, amp, front and rear speakers for around $300.

I believe that if you're willing to double the cost of the HK, you will more than double your listening enjoyment.

I'm glad I opted out of the HK and limping along with the standard system until my bank account recovers from MINI purchase isn't all that bad. And from what I undertand, my head unit will be marketable to pre 05 owners because it plays mp3s.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

 

I've been in some form of pro audio all my working life and unlike most in pro audio also have a high end home system-Revel Studios, Audio Research Pre, SACD, VPI table, etc...

I've never spent much money in car audio with the exception of trying to do a fairly nice system in my wife's 240 wagon which ended up with disappointing results due in part to the less than great acoustic environment for a wagon designed originally designed in the 70s.. anyhow i digress..

The HK system in the Mini is OK. In my book it should be a lot better even though it probably is close to being worth the price paid. That said I would have been willing to pay more to get more.

The biggest issue to me with it is the bloated, boomy mid bass. To my ear it sounds like somewhere from 120Hz to 200Hz, it would be interesting to do some measurements and see exactly what the frequency response is in the car, but I have to imagine it would should a definite bump somewhere under 200Hz. I spent a good chunk of time checking to make sure nothing was wrong and that there was no special mode engaged. I ended up doing what others have done and rolled quite a bit of the bass out using the the tone control and biasing towards the front speakers.

I've found sort of a similar tonal quality to HK systems I've had in a few rentals and a friends lower end Land Rover, so my guess is that somewhere in their market research and testing (which they do spend a lot of time doing) that consumers prefer this sort of sound and the systems are intentionally voiced this way.

My other problem with the system is dynamics. It seems to play fairly loud, but it seems to me to have a slightly compressed quality about it. My gut says that you're probably running through some sort of DSP the whole time regardless of whether you're in any of the different mode options and this may have something to do with what I'm hearing. I think the audiophilism term for what's missing might be pace or boogie.. I don't think that most would notice and as with subjective things like this I could also be totally off my rocker.

If you decide that you're going to try and carve out your own system and/or modify the factory system you're probably much better off purchasing the basic stereo package as i believe it's less of a hassle to muck around with, not to mention cheaper.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions after hearing it for yourself.

 

I mostly agree with the statements said so far. However, as I've stated in the past, I'm not an audiophile. I know good music when I hear it, or at least I think I do.

The bass is much too loud (unless cruising on the freeway with windows down).

I can hear digital artifacts in the music (much like you can see JPG artifacts in digital pix when JPGs are compressed too much) when the music is played very loud. I suppose the DSP doesn't have the good of electronics in it. Sure the various modes are fun to play around with, but I'd much prefer either better electronics so the digital artifacts wouldn't be so apparent.

I'd like to have a graphic equalizer, than the joke of treble and bass adjustments. I say joke, because when I raise the treble, the treble stays put and the bass levels lower. When I raise the bass, the treble lowers. Most systems I have played with, when you raise the bass, the treble stays put, the mid-range mostly stays put and the bass gets louder. If I raise the treble, the bass stays put, the mid-range mostly stays put and the treble gets louder. :smile:

Does the HK get loud? Yes! Its loud enough to hear cruising down the freeway at 75MPH with the windows down. This is the first car stereo I've had that does it. The bass, too loud with the windows up, now comes thru nicely over the road noise.

I doubt I'd buy one again (I know, this is different that what I've said before about the HK). I'd save up the extra 1000 (on top of the 550 JK) to get a decent aftermarket unit, amp, crossovers and speakers. Better yet, I haven't spent any money on my home entertainment stereo since 1991. I think I'd go out and get a new home stereo and speakers.

 

Yes, you are always using through the *DSP*. There is no off, all the HK settings are processed. It would be nice if you could select an *off* mode sometimes.

Steve

 

I used to be into competition systems, and coming from $10,000 SPL and then SQ systems, the H/K is an incredible bargain for what it delivers. Nope, not loud enough for all situations, but 90% of my driving. Our new Beetle is much louder, but not as clean, I enjoy getting back into the Mini everytime, even though it's quieter (god I'm getting old, damnit). The only actual complaint with the system I have is the lack of soundstage - there is none. Yea it's clear, yeah it sounds very good...but there is absolutely no image. That's the only thing that I really miss - but no WAY do I miss it enough to invest the money needed to change it all out like my other cars. This car just isn't for a high powered, custom kick/door/dash panel system to begin with.

 

One thing that I think has been missed above is the fact that the MINI HK system is quite well suited to the interior of our MINIs. I'm consistently impressed with the soundstaging, in general, but the driver mode in the HK system is quite handy at moving the stage to in front of the driver when necessary.

Yes, the mid-bass is a bit boomy at times, but I believe that is more a function of perception [there is too little sub-bass due to woofer size/material] and muddiness [again, a function of speaker size/material and sound deadening- MINI added more insulation to my right door, and the bass sounds better now than it first did]. The high frequencies, though, are quite nice. Jazz sounds sweeeeet.

As with any system, to us audiophiles, the tuning of the system largely determines how we appreciate it. Playing with the different eq modes will drastically change the system's behavior. I personally appreciate staging and high frequency clarity, both of which I like very much given the system's relatively low price. I also like the HK system's nice mid-range, which sounds really sweet with some good ol' fashioned trip hop or dnb blasting, using the ELECTRONIC eq.

In other words, I'm more than happy with the HK for what it is. If I change anything, it will be to add an 8" sub someday.

 

I am an avid audiophile and have way too much money invested in my home audio system. When it comes to automobiles, I just go with what the manufacturer offers. You just can't get the acoustics right in a car. You can compromise and equalize all you want, but it still won't be "right".
I also prefer to drive! and half listen when in the car.
Besides, everyone knows you need tubes to get it right. I haven't seen tube equipment in cars since the early 60's
mike

 

Speaking of which, how sweet would it be to get a tube amped MINI system? That would be the ultimate nostalgia-mobile!

 

If I could figure out how to power it in a MINI, I would use this as my Sub Amp.

http://www.pitt.edu/AFShome/t/t/ttr2...html/Mcintosh/

Steve

 

Thanks for all of the responses so far, especially hugh and tom. I think I am getting a good idea that I may want to go aftermarket, however, I'll still give the system a listen this weekend.

I have been buying my gear over the internet for a while now, and installing it myself. I'm sure that I can do this with the Mini, I'll just have to do some research on installation proceedures. In the past, I've been very happy with Nakamichi Head units (purity of sound, especially from CD's), and MB Quart separates for speakers (classical music, especially strings and horns sounds sublime). However, no integral support for Sirrius satellite is yet available for Nak head units.

Also, if I take out the HK/Sirrius option, I'll probably drop the MFSW and cruise control as well. I can't see having the audio controls on the steering wheel if they won't have any function. Conversely, this is one of the plusses of the factory HK system (gadget/cool factor.)

Decisions, decisions...

 

A few things to note. The multi-function steering wheel can control either a base system or HK system. They use the same head unit, which connects to the MFSW. Also, some aftermarket head units can be controlled by the MFSW (some require an adapter). See this: http://www.mini2.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36156

My impression from NAM and Mini2 forums is that HK is a good choice if you want something better than standard and don't plan to mod it. The HK system is problematic to mod successfully because it is an integrated proprietary system, and you can't simply mix and match aftermarket components as with a "normal" stereo system. For example, the output of the HK amp is equalized specifically for the response of the HK speakers, and could sound bad if you want to upgrade only the speakers. The base system is a better choice for modding. See here for information about adapting aftermarket components: https://www.newministuff.com/new/index.php?section=9

 

I got a chance to swing by one of the 'local' mini dealerships yesterday and play with the HK system (among other things...:smile::smile::smile. It did not help that it did sound very good to my ears, even though far from perfect. The sound was very clean and clear, although the dynamics did seem a lttle compressed, and I could here some distortion at higher volume levels. However, this is picking at small stuff, and I know I could live with the system. Listening to my Nakamichi/MB Quart system on the way home made me appreciate that as well. So I am still stuck, but leaning towards the HK for stock appearance, warranty, and the fact that it will be good to go from mile 1 with the car.

One thing I did notice that was irratating was that when I ejected a CD, the volume level for the radio was SIGNIFICANTLY louder. Is this adjustable in any way, or are different sources playing at greatly different volume levels normal with this system?

BTW, 'local' for me is a minimum of 65 miles away for Santa Ana, Crevier Mini. Also, they had markups as high as $6000 on some of their Minis! (I think these were MCS convertibles with steptronic)

 

That is the way the system is, regarding volume differential between CD sources and radio. The CD source not as amped, for whatever reason. The radio source is pretty downsampled, too, in comparison. However, I am not sure if this is an antenna thing or a head unit thing, or both. I'm 100% sure that the antenna has nowhere near the signal to noise, for obvious reasons. So, it's amplified, just don't know where.

 

'Compressed' is exactly the word I'd use to describe the HK system. It's what made me glad I declined it. I have a feeling that if you went with Nakamichi and MB Quarts in your MINI, you'd be quite staisfied.

Enter 'Nakamichi' into NAM's search engine and see who's using a Nakamichi head unit and how they like them.! Minihuni and Foko, for example. You mentiond 'looks'. IMO, the Nakamichi looks more OEM than any other hu I've seen.

Those west coast dealer/stealer markups are another issue. Find threads re: out of state purchase.

Stay in touch with us !!!

Hugh

 

Out here, Ian (GBMINI) was looking for similar things and did this tweak to the sound system of his recently delivered '05...http://www.gbmini.net/mtblog/archive...erkins_t.shtml

Saw him this weekend at MOT and he is very happy w/ the setup. I'd also order one of his auto up circuits while you're on his site to be prepared for when yours arrives

Re: the advice to look eastward, to avoid the $6k markup, I've seen many of your brethren do well by purchasing at MINI of the Hamptons and either driving it back or shipping it (reliably), definately give them a call. And much lower lead times as well.

 

I think the H/K sounds great, at least for a $500 factory job. And face it - the MINI is not a car where you're going to get top-notch audio anyway.

I like an OEM look (hate the bling-bling neon of most HUs these days), and the best part of all - plug in an IceLink Plus, pop the iPod in the glovebox loaded with 30G of lossless audio, and enjoy iPod control (and text!) from the stock HU and steering wheel. Can't beat that with a stick.

 

So, I spent a couple of hours last weekend lining my doors with Dynamat and adding felt to the speaker bezels to get rid of the annoying sympathetic vibrations of the H/K and the system went from pretty good to really impressive. It's no IASCA competitor, but wow, what a difference. Tighter low end and nore definition. And best of all, none of that annoying buzzing and distortion-like crackling that many complain about with the H/K.

Mandatory mod in my opinion.

Steve

 

Dynamat on the doors is my next weekend project, it could certainly use it, and I'm glad to see a report of a nice audio boost as well!