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Navigation & AudioAudio upgrades, bluetooth, and navigation discussions surrounding the Clubman (R55), Cooper and Cooper S (R56), and Cabrio (R57) MINIs.
I would question whether "more bass and nothing else" is necessarily what most people want, especially in the case of classic rock listeners. And certainly not to the extend that a 10" subwoofer in a separate box, driven by a 500W amp is required. Nor is one forced to choose speakers which are shrill.
As you said, installing an amp (whether for full range speakers or for a subwoofer) is a lot of work and costly. Much easier and more cost effective is replacing the stock speakers. No wring required, no amp, no power wires, much cheaper overall. Speakers come in all sizes and of varying quality. And if volume or bass output is not enough, one can add an amp to drive the full range speakers (this also increases bass output within limits).
I'm still convinced that there would have been better ways for KatGirl to spend this amount of money and get much more in return. And some of these alternatives would not lessen the amount of profit the shop makes out of her.
Yeah, I don't quite agree with the choice of components either. Maybe she can call and ask for other options before she takes it in. At the very least she can ask for a cheaper LOC, I see no benefit to that Wavtech unit with that Zapco amp.
Yeah, I don't quite agree with the choice of components either. Maybe she can call and ask for other options before she takes it in. At the very least she can ask for a cheaper LOC, I see no benefit to that Wavtech unit with that Zapco amp.
The installer told me the wave-tech unit was a must have, to make the system perform properly. I did some reading on the subject, and it seems he is right about that. A DSP makes a big difference in sound quality. I watched a video, where an audio expert did an excellent job thoroughly explaining how it works. My only concern about this install is the size of the subwoofer. I would prefer it smaller, but don’t want to sacrifice sound quality. Since I usually only carry my small dog and an overnight bag in the back, I guess I am worrying too much about the space it will take up. I am surprised sound engineers haven’t figured out a better way to improve bass.
Even if it were the "T" version (which I doubt): the only thing it would add to the rest of the system is time control (individual delay for each channel to make sure signals arrive simultaneously to exactly one listener in the car while potentially making things worse for other passengers). This would make little sense in this case as it would only control the subwoofer and have no effect on the sound coming from the main speakers.
Neither the LinkT nor the LinkQ are classic equalizers to finely tune the sound. Their "sound correction" abilities are not much more than what the Zapco amp (and many others) can already do (and which is enough for adding a subwoofer).
The model listed in the offer (LinkQ) comes without time control. Besides making the selected amp compatible with the high-level speaker output of the radio and suppyling a remote-on signal to it (both of which could have been overome by selecting a different amp), it adds nothing to the system.
There are so many issues with this selection of components (not that any one of them is bad in what it does, not at all) that I have serious doubts as to whether:
- the shop really do know what they are doing (as in "understanding the requirements of the customer and finding a good and effective solution to it") or
- are looking at KatGirl not just as a cash cow but also an opportunity to get rid of stock equipment (instead of ordering different stuff that better suits her Mini) or
- a combination of the above.
In addition I fear that they are also anticipating KatGirl to come back and address those points which would have made sense to address first. As the components chosen here are not scalable (2-channel Line-in-Converter, mono Amp), the "milking" possibilities will remain and be substantial.
Just my 2 cents... To everyone their own.
Edit: Coming from an IT background, I got reminded of this. Many "steps" are not relevant, but I fear the 1st, 5th, 8th and last one do describe what is happening here (disclaimer: in an exaggerated way of course).
Even if it were the "T" version (which I doubt): the only thing it would add to the rest of the system is time control (individual delay for each channel to make sure signals arrive simultaneously to exactly one listener in the car while potentially making things worse for other passengers). This would make little sense in this case as it would only control the subwoofer and have no effect on the sound coming from the main speakers.
Neither the LinkT nor the LinkQ are classic equalizers to finely tune the sound. Their "sound correction" abilities are not much more than what the Zapco amp (and many others) can already do (and which is enough for adding a subwoofer).
The model listed in the offer (LinkQ) comes without time control. Besides making the selected amp compatible with the high-level speaker output of the radio and suppyling a remote-on signal to it (both of which could have been overome by selecting a different amp), it adds nothing to the system.
There are so many issues with this selection of components (not that any one of them is bad in what it does, not at all) that I have serious doubts as to whether:
- the shop really do know what they are doing (as in "understanding the requirements of the customer and finding a good and effective solution to it") or
- are looking at KatGirl not just as a cash cow but also an opportunity to get rid of stock equipment (instead of ordering different stuff that better suits her Mini) or
- a combination of the above.
In addition I fear that they are also anticipating KatGirl to come back and address those points which would have made sense to address first. As the components chosen here are not scalable (2-channel Line-in-Converter, mono Amp), the "milking" possibilities will remain and be substantial.
Just my 2 cents... To everyone their own.
Edit: Coming from an IT background, I got reminded of this. Many "steps" are not relevant, but I fear the 1st, 5th, 8th and last one do describe what is happening here (disclaimer: in an exaggerated way of course).
I don’t have enough technical knowledge about car audio to comment on your thoughts. You have managed to depict me as a victim, a “sucker”, as it were. I can assure you that I made my wants clear, and asked all the pertinent questions. I am not a stupid, or naive consumer. I will ask him to explain, in more detail, why the last item is needed, though he did give me a cursory explanation. As for the one channel amp, that was a cost saving measure. If I never change out the speakers, I won’t need a multichannel amp. The shop owner/installer explained to me that I will notice a vast improvement in sound quality, after he completes the planned install. I did look up that last line item, the wave tech link Q, and found it is used exactly for what he told me: equalization necessary when adding a subwoofer to an OEM head unit. If the stereo does, indeed, sound a lot better, when he is finished, I will be happy.
The following are extracts from the manuals of the proposed amp and line-in-converter:
As can be seen, the "equalizing" capabilities of the LinkQ are exactly the same as those of the amp (selection of one frequency between 30Hz and 80Hz for which the volume can be varied +/- 12dB. The amp also has a subsonic filter, Low Pass Filter and Phase control (the former two are common in most amps). So why does the shop claim that the LinQ is central to this project? There is no additional functionality added by it.
There are plenty, good multichannel amplifiers (with similar adjustability) in the same price range (or lower) as the proposed amp. And bear in mind that the sheer amount of power of this amp and the capabilities of the 10" subwoofer will be way overkill unless the stock speakers are replaced AND an additional amp installed (for the stock speakers) AND sound proofing material is installed (to prohibit boom and vibrations).
If you really must start off by installing a sub and amp to drive it, it would make much more sense to use a high-level compatible 4-channel amp with auto-sense on, 2+1 mode capability and sound filters. It need not cost more (could even cost much less), provide more than enough power to the sub, not require the shielded cable (for crazy $ 49.99 per 6 feet by the way!), do without the line-in-converter and need less work to install (less wires to lay and connect and at least one item less to install).
I apologize if I gave you the impression that it is in any way your responsibility if the shop sees you as a victim. It certainly wasn't and isn't my intention, not at all. I will refrain from further comments and do hope you are happy with whatever is installed.
I apologize if I gave you the impression that it is in any way your responsibility if the shop sees you as a victim. It certainly wasn't and isn't my intention, not at all. I will refrain from further comments and do hope you are happy with whatever is installed.
Don’t be so sensitive, George. I wasn’t criticizing you, or your comments, just standing up for myself. I appreciate you taking the time to respond, especially in such detail. I will ask “Vinnie” what difference the Link Q will make, over the equalizer in the Amp, before he starts the install on Tuesday. I will also inquire about multichannel amps for $250.00. I do know that the same brand, Zapco, multichannel Amp is $500.00. Thank you for your interest, and input, in my thread.
Picked up the car a few hours ago. Having the subwoofer and amplifier make a big difference in sound quality. The sub is vented, which apparently is better than non-vented, or at least my audio guy’s preference. It takes up less room than I thought it would, so I am happy about that. I asked Vinnie if the equalizing capability of the Link Q was the same as that of the amp, as someone had suggested. He said it absolutely was not. The Link Q was a necessary addition. Also, if I do change out the speakers at some point, I can just add a 4 way Amp, so the dual channel one I have will still be utilized. He did tune the system, via the Link Q, so all is good. I will take and upload pics of the sub tomorrow, to show you guys. Both the amp and Link Q are in the deepest part of the boot, out of site. He installed a tuning switch to my dashboard to adjust the amount of bass. Everything is easily removable for when I trade this for an MCS in a few years. He tested the output of the OEM head unit, and was surprised at its power. It is made by Alpine, BTW. So, I am happy for now.
As promised, a pic of my new subwoofer. It makes a world of difference in the sound quality of the music I listen to, which is mostly classic rock and roll. The stainless steel cage around the speaker is purely for protection. Kat
As promised, a pic of my new subwoofer. It makes a world of difference in the sound quality of the music I listen to, which is mostly classic rock and roll. The stainless steel cage around the speaker is purely for protection. Kat
note the vent on the left side. Apparently, a vented speaker guards against blowout, if I understood a Vinnie correctly. I did read that sound quality ma6 be better with a completely enclosed box, but a good audio guy can tune the system toget high quality sound with the vented box.
Glad you are happy with it. It looks way too big for my car. I have a sealed unit beneath a cover in the back of my F56. Pumps out plenty of bass for this tiny little car. People are always looking at that old dude driving by with a booming bass. lol
Glad you are happy with it. It looks way too big for my car. I have a sealed unit beneath a cover in the back of my F56. Pumps out plenty of bass for this tiny little car. People are always looking at that old dude driving by with a booming bass. lol
What "classic rock" are you playing?
It is a little large, but can be easily removed, if I need the storage area, temporarily.
I have Sirius and generally listen to the Classic Vinyl station or The Bridge.
So, I have been listening to it for several days now, and it is a vast improvement. I am hearing the lovely base notes that were totally missing, before the subwoofer was installed. However, I do think it could sound even better/ louder with upgraded speakers, with their own amp. Apparently, the base head unit is more than capable of handling these upgrades. Vinnie also said he could add soundproofing material in the doors. I will have to wait a bit, though, as it is hard to come up with a spare grand, so soon after dropping $1300.00 on what was just done. I am retired, so have to watch my pennies.
Was clicking thru this forum to do something else, this thread caught my eye and just had to respond. A couple things:
That LinkQ was not needed. If your installer needed it, it is because he doesn't understand the vehicle's system.
Your installer is telling you things that a) aren't true, and b) demonstrate that he isn't even remotely as knowledgeable as he'd like you to believe he is.
We are finally, after many many delays, finishing up a new product line for the F5x 3rd gen MINIs (had an F55 in all last week for development work in fact). We also supply some of the best installers in the country. If you can wait for our new SoundstageDSP for the MINI F5x, I can promise you there will be nothing better available even at 5 times the price. Depending on where you are in CA, I may have an installer to recommend for whatever you choose to do next. But FWIW I would not recommend going back to that shop.
Thanks for your input, Kevin. I can only assure you that my music sounds great. I will, however, show this to the owner of Audio Xperts in Vacaville, CA, and allow him to respond.
The information was for you. I thought it might be helpful to confirm what the others had suggested above, and that there seemed to be some question about. I don't need a response, I am not uncertain .
The information was for you. I thought it might be helpful to confirm what the others had suggested above, and that there seemed to be some question about. I don't need a response, I am not uncertain .
Hi Kevin, long time no see/hear. I was the guy that bought your very last subwoofer along with the Soundstage and I can assure everyone here, Kevin is the man. He knows what he is doing and not just taking wild shots in the dark. The systems he creates are specific for our MINIs and you will not find anything close to its quality in an reasonably close price point. The clarity of this system is world class and the bass is very distinct, not muddied at all, no distortion. I for one could not imagine hauling around a big old wooden block in the back on my MINI. To each his/her own.
note the vent on the left side. Apparently, a vented speaker guards against blowout, if I understood a Vinnie correctly. I did read that sound quality ma6 be better with a completely enclosed box, but a good audio guy can tune the system toget high quality sound with the vented box.
Kat
I hope for your sake and that of your passengers, that you have that thing bolted down.
I hope for your sake and that of your passengers, that you have that thing bolted down.
Not bolted down, but doesn’t move, at all, under normal circumstances. I suppose there is a chance of it becoming a projectile in an accident, but I am not overly worried about it. Anything we have in the car is a potential projectile, I suppose. Something to think about, though.
Hi Kevin, long time no see/hear. I was the guy that bought your very last subwoofer along with the Soundstage and I can assure everyone here, Kevin is the man. He knows what he is doing and not just taking wild shots in the dark. The systems he creates are specific for our MINIs and you will not find anything close to its quality in an reasonably close price point. The clarity of this system is world class and the bass is very distinct, not muddied at all, no distortion. I for one could not imagine hauling around a big old wooden block in the back on my MINI. To each his/her own.
I don’t mind the size. Pic makes it look bigger than it is. Also, I can just unplug the wires and remove it, if I need the space. The only things I carry are my dog and a backpack, on alternate weeks, to travel 60 miles to my guy’s place. I leave the backseats down, by default. So plenty of room.
I listened to Integrals system in a 2nd gen car and it was pretty darn good. However for whatever reason he still hasn't released the 3rd gen ones and I moved on. I would have loved to have a fully configured system that just fit my car.
Kat you really should go back and make them put in a screw down mounting point for that sub. Non normal circumstances happen every day to unsuspecting drivers when someone smashes into them.
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