On the web site when you navigate to the R53 order page and access the pdf installation instructions the link takes you to R56 installation instructions. Are there separate instructions for the R53?

http://www.integralaudio.com/index.p...er-system.html

 

You will need a TON of processing power to do a pillar install. Without it all of your sound is going to be locked onto your driver's side a-pillar. Without a ton of processing, the doors are a far better option.

 

Possibly. I know with all the installs we've done, mounting the tweeter and mid up high has usually resulted in a better stage height. Also messing with on-axis/off-axis has helped in reducing some of the processing. But the PLDs have always remained an issue. And getting a good full range mid installed up there is challenging. The door mounting we've experienced drags the stage down and also required tons of processing due to PLD issues as well. The best place we've found is kick panels for PLD concerns but they have their own issues. It's always a compromise. Even the guys with deep dashes that have custom rebuilt the dash have issues. And the closer to perfection you try to get it becomes exponentially more expensive.

Lately I go for the 80% awesomeness as it usually costs me a lot less!!!

 

Tweeters work up high because TA is almost useless up there. Well, to define a stage it is. It's useful for phase coherancy, but for making a good stage, tweeter level is a lot more important. Mids, on the other hand, WILL need TA if you go in the pillars.

 

Agreed.

These concerns area still present with the location of the mid in the Mini door. Measure the PLDs in that location versus the bottom of the a-pillar to the drivers seating position. The other concern with that door location is vocals can be drawn downward. My years of messing this with this stuff have taught me that the mid is the most critical and the hardest driver to get right. In the lower frequencies, PLDs (path length differences) are more critical. In the higher frequencies it s about angles and location. The mid mixes both together. It's a tough thing to get perfect in my opinion. Many have disagreed with me in the past and thats cool too. Audio is a very emotional and personal thing. And I will never claim to know it all

Anyways, this is really not on topic. In a situation like this, stock locations are very reasonable as anything else is going to get you into money. But to setup a nice L-C-R sound stage with depth and width using factory locations will require you to process the signal. Being able to integrate something off the shelf like an MS8 processor would add a new dimension to the project, if it can be made to work that justifies the cost. Of note, I have a new MS8 in the box sitting on the shelf in the garage waiting

 

quality_sound & tominizer,

Just to give you guys a little preview, we're in the early stages of looking at a higher-price point DSP version of the Soundstage with time alignment and vehicle-specific processing. The new IC's and DSP can do some amazing things**, as I'm sure you both know, and with programming done based on our vehicle-specific measurement and modeling can far exceed what the "black box" processors can achieve. It's a long way off at best, at worst it may never come to the MINI (would just be done for some of the other vehicles we're developing for). No idea on pricing or availability, but just thought I'd mention it since it's relevant to your discussion. For anyone who's reading this and considering the current Soundstage, don't let this discussion deter you from purchase - if the DSP version does come the MINI we'll offer an upgrade option.

**If either of you are AES members take a look at some of the array DSP papers from the last conference. Unbelievable what is possible these days.

 

That would be something A three way front stage tailored to the car's environment for near perfect SQ. That's a pile of in-car measurements and TIME to nail down right. Would be interesting to be able to have a processor that's standard for any install and it would just be the parameters you upload into to it depending on the vehicle and the speaker setup

Regardless, it looks like the current package uses good equipment and has been well thought out. It's always easy to talk about custom installations but the reality is that solution is one off most times and a lot of dough. And usually involves cutting up parts of your ride. Being able to bolt stuff up and not ruin the car has always held a high degree of merit for me. Get 80% of perfection an being able to put everything back to stock for only the cost of our time is great. When selling cars I've owned, a lot of people shy away from cars that are not stock.

 

Well, the DSP version would just be MORE tailored to the vehicle. The current Soundstage is already tailored to the car far more than you are probably imagining. The in-car, in-place measured response of the individual drivers is used to design the crossovers so that crossover freqs, slopes, phase are as perfect as they can be. Off-axis response is already accounted for (for others following this: every speaker's response changes as the angle from the listener to the speaker changes. Since every car is different, and placement of speakers is different, the actual response of typical aftermarket systems will vary WIDELY from one vehicle to the next because the placement of the speakers determines the angle to the listener and has a dramatic effect on the effectiveness of the crossover [the crossover is what divides the frequencies up among the different speakers]). The drivers, crossover, and system have been tailored to the vehicle acoustic response and other factors - for example, taking into account the extra series resistance presented by the smaller gauge factory wiring and still delivering a system Q that gives a good balance between accuracy and efficiency. As you know, these are things that can't be controlled and are a total shot in the dark with even the best of traditional aftermarket systems.

It is, but we've already done them! Our test and measurement suite of tools and software cost more than the average MINI, and we're about to add some amazing new bits as well. The real tough part is the knowledge and experience required to use them properly. This isn't something that can be done with an RTA and a test CD.

That's the basic idea. This is not and never will be one of the "black box" field-configurable setups, though. The programming would be based on our testing, measurement, and modeling.

It does, but the primary benefit of this system is the vehicle-specific acoustic design. The perfect-fit, easy installation, and tremendous value for the quality of components are all secondary benefits.

This is true, and one of my to-do items is to collect some data on this for vehicles with our systems. Anecdotally I already know that we are adding value to the vehicles.

 

That would be pretty awesome, Kevin. Now we just need a simple HU upgrade option. I just spent almost a month waiting on the HU I want and now the friggin' thing might not even be able to be used because it's a flip-out. Ugh...

 

One thing that's nice to now about that has always bugged me about these cars is that it is now possible to change the head unit and maintain the existing functions required by the car. Putting the unit up in behind the speedo cluster was awesome news to hear about.

 

I thought so too... then I ordered a 40-pin cable and found out my 2012 has a 50-pin cable. Because of that I can't get the OEM unit tucked in there until I'm back in the US and my car shows up. Frick and frack!!!!!

Plus, I can't figure out how to separate the cd drive face from the chassis so i can put it up there anyway. I'm sure once I figure it out I'll feel stupid for not getting it sooner. lol

 

This thread is from way back, but got a full, brand new install from Kevin this past Thursday. I had a fan issue which Kevin wanted to look at, but instead of just replacing the amp, he had a nice Integral Audio box waiting for me. Kevin had offered at least 2 other times to come back for the final product (I had perfectly sounding prototype stuff so I saw no need) but he truly wanted me to see and hear the differences now that the system has undergone multiple improvements in the past 5 years...

So the car was gutted. Old crossovers under seat replaced with new Integral Audio crossovers that fit in the door armrests, new tweeters, mid-ranges and woofers and a new amp. Old sub still in place.




Gutted interior

We worked together for about 6 hours - Kevin took care of the new harness, amp, tweeters and probably a million other things I didn't notice while I took care of the mounting the new mid-range and woofers and crossovers.




New crossovers

Quick summary: It's unreal the difference in sound. I loved this system before. Mid-ranges in this system are much more involved and it's crazy how the sound is elevated as if it's coming from the windshield. Bass is rich from the woofers and the balance between the sub and the woofers make for a more even sound, i.e. not bass coming just from the sub if that makes sense. And the clarity of the new mid-ranges and tweeter - just ridiculous!

Kevin shared that he's working on a full system for the 3-series only to find out that someone hijacked his Integral Audio name and put out some real garbage. So if you've heard that the 3-series system is out there and it's not so good... trust me - it's not Kevin's stuff. He does nothing badly and is the most stand-up guy I've met in this industry.

 

I'm really feeling this integral setup.