Hey all,

Just replaced my mini's speakers ( I previously had the HiFi system and wasnt impressed with it) with a top spec audio system consisting of a Kenwood KAC 7404 amp, Infinity 67.5 16.5cm components and Infinity 693.7i 6x9s in the rear positions. This audio system is pretty high spec and the bits werent cheap but I bought them because I wanted the best.
The Infinity speakers run at 2ohm, and as such are 90w rms and 110 w rms respectively. The amp is delivering 90w rms x 4 at 2 ohm...

Now onto the sound...

Although the speakers go a LOT louder than the stock ones, I am now lacking a lot of the bass I previously had. For comparison, my settings used to be +1 on the bass which I found to be about right with the hifi system... I am now on +6 and am getting no where near the bass output I was with the hifi system... The problem doesnt seem to be the speakers, it isnt as if they are distorting and cant handle the bass, the louder you turn them up they just keep going and even at ridiculous ear splitting levels the speakers are 100% distortion free and sound fantastic. The problem is that at low volumes there is just hardly any bass at all... I will add at this point that I am not one of these guys who you hear coming from miles away with 10,000 watts running through 100 different subwoofers, I am someone who likes music to sound good but not so that everyone outside the car can hear it! So when I say there is no bass, I quite physically mean there is no bass, not that I need to add a few subs so that my car is rattling to pieces

Now I dont think the speakers are the problem because when they are played very loud ( 5 x louder than you would normally listen to them ) they are actually quite bassy, much more so than the Hifi system could ever have handled, and they handle the bass fine (ie no crackling, popping, distortion etc)

Has anyone any ideas what the problem could be?
I have tried everything I can think of including messing around with the fader settings on the HU, adjusting treble/bass etc, playing with the Kenwood KAC 7404 amplifier to make sure there are no effects turned on, high pass filters and low pass filters are both set to off... as far as I can see there is nothing wrong

The system has been installed by tapping the original speaker wires and using a high level input on the Kenwood amplifier

Thanks for any help!

 

There is really no such thing as "top spec" when it comes to speaker drivers. Different speakers work better in different sizes and kinds of enclosure. Some require a larger or smaller enclosure, sealed or vented, to play low. Some won't play low at all and require an additional subwoofer. Sticking a random speaker in a door without any prep is kind of a crapshoot and it is very common that the result will have worse bass than the stock speakers.

One thing to check is that the phase is correct on all the speakers. Otherwise your options are trying different speakers, getting an equalizer and playing with that, or getting a sub.

 

Reverse the connections on ONE of your woofers. See if that makes a difference.

 

I'd look at phasing, as oldsbear suggests. I'd also try running ALL the speakers from the front feeds to the amplifier (not the speakers), as my testing (tentatively) tells me that those channels on the hifi system have the best signal available.

 

The deck makes a huge difference...the amp is just making the signal from the deck louder and hopfully cleaning it up....made a night and day swapping from my stock mazda3 deck into an Eclipse 8v preout deck...problem is, this car isn't HU friendly. The mazda has CDT EF 6.5" seps up front and infinity reference in the rear just for fill, but each door handles 125 watts RMS not even pushing the amp...they sing...but there isn't much low end, a sub would clear that up. Not talking boom boom boom stuff, just something to make the low end jump around.

The speakers in your current setup aren't really going to dig deep into the lower end of the musical range. The stock speakers were/are tuned as far as they can be in the car they are going into. The HiFi sound system actually doesn't sound too bad when you get it going with the right music. Have to remember, they aren't aftermarket amped to make them rattle the doors off, just to make the $500 worth it to them. The key is going to be making sure you are covering all the ranges..highs mids and lows. Don't think the 6.5" driver in the door is going to dig deep into the lower range, you're going to need a sub-driver for those musical notes. Also think about sound deadening the doors down and maybe a baffle behind the speakers to create a "box".

A sub and a new deck is what it really going to make you happy, Infinity is great, but there are other companies out there that offer a much better sound...sound is relative. What sounds good to me, may sound like shyte for you. Key is to listen to lots of setups before you go all out.

 

Hi,

As others have stated check the phasing of your speakers. This is the biggest thing that can cause low bass response, especially if you are turning the bass control up that much.

As for Infinity speakers they are okay but they definatley do not do bass as well as many others. They usually require a larger volume of air in a door than what can be found to get the lower notes, i.e. larger cavity.

As for replacing the deck as has been suggested that is no easy feat.

The deck that comes in the mini is actually an alpine deck and is a rathrer good one IMHO.

The only way to add an after market deck to a 07/08 Mini cost effectively is to mount it in the secret compartment. there is space there to do this.

As for putting a new deck in the center console i t will take all new palstics around the center console and moving of the heat/ac controls. Also moving the main deck of the Mini also messes with all the onther funcitons a that show up on the dispaly screen.

 

Well after playing around the settings a lot more, I have found a slightly better set up but it is still no where near what I had hoped for :(
I am now running it on +6 to the rears, +5 bass (I found + 6 didnt make any noticeable difference) and treble -2. IMO its still quite a tinny sound, although the rear speakers do sound a lot better than the front ones

I have already begun looking into getting subwoofers - does anyone have any advice so I dont screw things up again?!
I was looking at this set up, what do yopu guys make of this - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kenwood-12-120...742.m153.l1262
it works out at about $199 for comparison of £s to $s.
Also I might consider changing the Kenwood sub for the Sony Xplod... any comments on this?

Thanks for the feedback guys - I will check phasing as soon as it is light again although a professional garage did the install so I would be suprised if they got something as simple as that wrong (or am I just too naive!? lol)

Cheers

 

My personal opinion -- a 12 inch sub and 1200 watt amp are complete overkill for something the size of the Mini -- unless your goal is to cruise slowly down the street leaving a trail of blaring car alarms and puddles from terrified little old ladies and small dogs.

My selection was the boss audio bass600, an 8 inch cone and a (supposedly) 200 watt amp. Fits in the boot nicely, doesn't require exotic wiring (steal the signal from the FRONT channels, BEFORE the amp), and won't break the bank:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Boss-Audio-BAS...em380057228108

May not make small dogs pee, but it will probably make them tremble...

And I'd have the professional installers look over some of the threads in this forum -- the sound system in the Mini is pretty weird. You'll find a number of reports where folks have hooked up subs to the rear speakers, and complained bitterly of the (lack of) results. Move the taps to the fronts, and lots of bass! Similarly, folks naturally want to dig out signals at the back of the radio, perhaps the most difficult place to access in the Mini interior. Either the X9331 connector (ahead of the driver's door) or the connector on the amp if you have the HiFi are far easier, and pinouts/colour codes are readily available.

 

futureal33

Have you tried to check or change the polarity of one of the current speakers to see if that helps?

If just one driver is out of phase then it will cause a big big big big problem in the base response.

 

Hi Schatzy,

No I have not tried this yet, unfortauntely due to living in the UK I leave work in the morning and it is dark and return home and it is dark - and due to having no garage I am a bit stuck really, and due to the weather we're having at the moment its not ideal to be outside doing electrical work either!!

As soon as I can I will try this (probably tomorrow night if I finish early enough!!)

Would you just simply reccommend changing the +ve and -ve signals at the amplifier end?

 

Yes but just for one output.

I understand the darkness problem you are having. I lived in Banbury Oxfordshire for 4 years. During the winter months there seemed to be only about 4 hours of sunlight but then during the summer months the sun went down at 10 pm but came back up at 3am. Or that is how i remember it any way from 20+ years ago.

 

Where did you pick up the signal to run the new amp? If you picked it up from leads out of the standard head unit, they don't get much bass. You have to pick it up from the front speakers.

 

They got the signal at the speakers, basically by tapping into the speaker wire. They used the standard signals (so front left is still front left etc)
So they tapped all 4 speaker wires (FL, FR, RL, RR) and then fed these to the high level input on the amp

 

Perhaps a dumb question, but have you checked the amp's built-in filters? Page 4 of the owner's manual shows their location. In particular, I'm wondering if the "A Channel Filter" (switch #1 in the diagram) might not have accidentally been switched to the "high-pass" setting. Of course, this would only really kill your bass if the installer used the "A" channels for the rear speakers.

 

What would happen if you put an amp in and you only
tapped the two front speaker leads for your input, then
ran the amp to all 4 (I guess 6 really) speakers?

You would have the "good" sound on all four speakers it seems
????????????????

 

Unfortunately, I have checked all the settings and everything is turned to off :( It seems the amp is delivering a full signal to the speakers but either the speakers just aren't bassy or the input to the amp has a weak bass signal... I am fitting a subwoofer this weekend which will hopefully sort the problem - although it is a shame I have had to take this route as ideally I didnt want a sub, I had hoped the 6x9s would provide me ample bass and the fronts would do the rest... unfortunately this isnt the case

 

didnt read ur entire thread but where did your installer pick up the signal

 

I think that is your problem. The rear speakers in the MINI don't get much bass. So, they are feeding a poor signal into the amp for the rear speakers.

If you have the HIFI upgrade, you can pull the signals from all speaker connections in the X9331 connector. If you have the standard system, you can only get a good signal from the front speakers.

Read this thread for more details.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=151132