Do you really get a digital music connection with the iPod adapter? There was none with the R50/R53 iPod adapters (either OEM or aftermarket). iPod does not have streaming digital audio output -- neither Toslink optical nor wired (S/PDIF). This was very deliberately designed to prevent digital copying. The iPod adapters used the analog line out from the dock port, effectively the same quality as using the aux input. I suspect it is the same with the new R56 iPod adapter but haven't heard of details.

The only way to get digital music from an iPod is to retrieve the music files directly and decode externally. The USB option is able to do this for files encoded in MP3. The Apple encoded files (default format for iTunes) would need an Apple license and maybe even a hardware decoder chip. I know of one aftermarket headunit that actually does this (Alpine IDA-X001). It is possible that the R56 iPod adapter takes this approach, but I'm skeptical because it would be easier and cheaper to use the analog output.

I'm not so sure how much of this will make a difference in sound quality. Any portable music player will have a D-to-A converter geared more for low power and cost than sound. However, I wouldn't expect the D/A chip in a Bluetooth or iPod option to be high quality either.

 

Maybe so. I don't really know. I just assumed that it was digital with the adapter itself was doing the encoding (hence the crazy price and the reported better sound quality). If not, then it does indeed appear that using the USB port with a thumb drive would produce the best results since the MINI head unit (or the Bluettoth module???) would have to do the decoding of the actual digital music files. Which is fine by me as I'm not an iPod fan one bit (although I doubt my R56 will have the USB port which is a bummer).

I guess none of it really matters as long as you're happy with the sound coming from your unit. I simply found it to be interesting and thought that I'd post it for everyone here to consume.

 

I would hazard a guess that part of the issues is ensuring that the processor (the thing that turns the digital signal into an analogue one) can cope with the various formats that are in use.

My understanding is that the module contains the electronics to decode mp3 and wav files - as you would find on the majority of players.

However.

Once you get into a DRM work, you have to be able to handle many the time-bombed MP3's and the itunes protected content.

Oh and you have to make it work for 5-10 years.

Much better to receive the analogue signal from the unit than the file directly.

Again, the jack on the iPod is capable out outputting sound, however the limitaion is that there is no protocol for sound transmission over USB, or at least there is not one that does not call for re-encoding and transmission. So you take one lossy source and re-encode it, using another lossy format then de-encode it and you are lucky if you can hear anything at all.

Much better to take the lossy source and use the iPods decoding to procude a fairly high quality analogue source and pipe that pretty much direct to the amps.

In all of this, sound quality is argueable, unless you are using a lossless format, it is never going to be as acurate as it would be if you stuck a CD in the player.

 

Just for the record.. there has never been an iPod that outputs digital sound..

 

Correct me if I'm assuming too much - I think we're confusing sound quality with output sound levels. If you're using the headphone output you're going to have an output limiting factor because of the headphone jack.

If you use the ipod jack at the base of any ipod, then you're have higher sound output levels - no? yes?

 

erm, no, sorry.

The iPod has a built in amplifier, the headphone socket is amplified.

As to getting a digital output - well the way that the USB adapter seems to work is that it looks at the FAT32 filesytem on the thumb drive and using its own decoder, converts the file (MP3) to analog and then amplifies it.

As I said earlier, this is all well and good until you encounter DRM or a file format that the electronics cannot decode.

Technically the fielsystem on the iPod is probably accessible, but the various supported formats are not - especially the protected content - Apple hold the keys to that one extremely closely.

Hence they use the rather good decoder on the iPod to play everything.

 

It is indeed. Here is what I wrote back in post #55:

 

iTunes can also use AIFF, the format of most CDs. So, with the huge storage capabilities of recent iPods, you can store maintain the CD quality.

 

CDs don't use AIFF to store the songs. They're stored in what's called "CD-DA", for "Compact Disc Digital Audio". It's usually just called "Redbook Audio", named for the colour of the cover of the book that gives the specifications for the standard.

Like Redbook audio, AIFF *is* lossless and uncompressed, so you're correct that it can be used to store full-fidelity recordings on iPods and other devices, but the song still has to be converted to AIFF after being read from the disc.

 

I disagree. While the dock connector may be analog, the quality is better than using the headphone port to drive the aux input (assuming this is what you mean). The headphone port is inherently noisy because of the amplifier needed to drive a headphone load (and in comparison, is a huge load). The dock connector is a line-level output (so you never want to hook up headphones to the "Line Out" port of the dock or you'll blow your ears out).

Yes and no. The DACs are definitely geared towards power savings, especially on a PMP like an iPod, but don't think they'll throw just any crap in there. The quantitative performance of these things are quite good (the 5G Wolfson iPods apparantly being better than the new Cirrus iPod Classic!).

But, honestly, when you're driving in a car, audio quality doesn't have to be that spectacular, unless you're really listening while at a complete stop. Wind noise, road noise, engine noise, etc. all contribute to masking the audio anyway.

 

I think you're assuming that aux input must be connected to the headphone port. You can connect aux input to the line out with a cable that costs less than $10. The point I was making was that you can do this and get the same sound quality as an iPod adapter.

 

Normally line out is much lower voltage than that for the headphones. Hook headphones up to it and you'll barely hear anything. Perhaps it's different for the ipod but unlikely.

Some would disagree =) That's why you get a system that will sound great at high volumes Can't hear a siren next to you much less road noise. (flame suit on for the "safety" rebuttals )

 

Well, judging by the photo of the connector it looks like the Mini supplied cable uses the line out anyways. So, if the previous Mini-provided iPod adapter was using the line out and not doing digital decoding, it's safe to say we'll see the same audio quality.



Besides, whenever I'm doing studio audio work in the car, I find that the mixing board gets in the way of the 5-6 shift anyways. It's just easier to keep the reference monitors in the studio.

 

I have one of these and the man is correct. When I connect via my $8 dock-aux wire the sound is louder and much clearer than when I then connect my headphone-aux wire right after. No comparison. Best $8 I ever spent.

 

Got a link where one might also be able to purchase one of these $8 wonders? I too would like to spent the best eight dollars ever.

 

Originally Posted by rkw
I think you're assuming that aux input must be connected to the headphone port. You can connect aux input to the line out with a cable that costs less than $10. The point I was making was that you can do this and get the same sound quality as an iPod adapter.

 

Arguing sound quality on MP3 file compression is a little pointless since the signal is less quality by desgin.

The DA converter on the iPod goes to to the aux port and then out the speakers via amplifier, there is not other converter occuring...if you had a digital out you would need to do a conversion to send it to the speakers anyway.

 

Anybody have a pic of the USB port? I believe it's at the bottom of the center console, next to the aux port.

 

I saw a pic of it posted by the guy in Europe that started this whole thread when he got a US Mini delivered to his military base (I think) with the usb installed. It's right next to the aux jack.
rks's link is just what I got on ebay minus the logo and mine is black. From Hong Kong shipped for $8 total in like 4 days.

 

Do you mean 'EUROKOKE'? I've pawed through his posts, did not find any pics. I know I've seen it somewhere too, just can't remember where. Looked on the mini2 forum as well - no luck.

 

My post had a link. Actually I have two of these cables now.
The white one I've had for several years now is this: http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/...%20Accessories
I've been wanting a black one (leaving any white cable visible in a car is asking for trouble) and never found one until recently on eBay -- actually it was a post by TheBigNewt where I discovered it: http://cgi.ebay.com/3-5-3-5mm-AUX-CA...QQcmdZViewItem

FWIW the white ZipLinq version makes an impression of being higher qualitiy in materials and construction, but the retraction mechanism is more awkward to use. But at these prices it's hard to complain.

 

Yeah, the black one I got is really thin wire. But it lays down flat nicely unlike the headphone/aux one I got at Radioshack, and that was grey so I had to Sharpie it black.

 

I totally missed the link in your post, oops. I'm planning on getting a black iPod Classic 160GB, so that black one will coordinate better with the iPod and the Mini interior.

Unfortunately it looks like I'll be getting the iPod before the Mini, so I'm going to have to get a cassette adapter to use in my current car too. I used to have one, but I gave it away two months ago thinking I'd never need it again. Doh! (I'm kicking myself over that now. Maybe I'll go down to Goodwill and buy it back.)

 

Just a quick bump on this thread--has anyone who has recently taken delivery of a car found a USB port? Are there any confirmed sightings of USB ports in US delivered cars?

 

I have a Mini with Bluetooth and HiFi arriving in 3 weeks. I'll update then.