This is a philosophical disagreement with no answer. In general, the marketplace serves its purpose to buy, sell, or trade for whatever ... Vendors pay a fee to make profit. Usually, items sold are not for profit.

If you sell something you owned on eBay for less a price than you bought ... no tax. If you make a profit, you are required to pay US Income tax on that profit. Hence, for example, if this person made $4K profit, which it appears he has done, he owes Uncle Sam tax money on the profit. Most ppl selling stuff do not make profit. I just don't think profit making should be in the marketplace without paying a vendor fee.

 

No one has YET to answer my question, what happens if we all go in and buy a future MINI "place in line" with a fully refundable deposit, not an actually MINI, and then tell the dealer we want to re-sell it? Answer that question, please.

This slot is sold according to E-Bay, I would be very interested to see the actual final sales paperwork to see if it is anything even close to the MSRP.

A car Dealer that waived a 4 to 10 thousand dollar profit margin for a speculator? I don't think he will be working this car line very much longer.

 

The eBay agreement is between the buyer and seller. Seller must produce the goods, in this case, a place in ine.

However, the Dealer has no obligation whatsoever to sell the car to someone else other than the original person who put down the deposit.

It would seem to me that the dealer could force the issue and force the "Seller" to actually buy the car (including taxes) and then the car can be resold to the "buyer" ... in which case the Seller is screwed because of taxes.

 

earlier in the thread, the original poster has said that they had talked to the dealer, and it was OK to bring a new buyer to take the place in line.....

Matt

And Chow, where do you find that private party sales SHOULD be profitless? Really, I thought that as long as the buyer and seller were happy with the price then the deal happens. One could make an argument that by NAM allowing private party sales without a commission is a way that NAM provides more value to the membership, making posting and participating a better value. Either way, the notion that marketplace sales should be profitless is a notion that doesn't exist anywhere on the boards as a rule for participation. Seems like your trying to supplant what the real rules are with some subjective sense of what ought to be and that dont' fly with me. And for what it's worth, I have sold parts at a profit here. I don't see why if I take the time and effort to find a really good deal that I'm obliged to pass on the results of my work to others that couldn't have bothered to take the time to find the deal. No, it hasn't happened often, but once or twice.... So if the world you want isn't relflected here, do something about making a change. See if the powers that be like the notion of supervising the marketplace to make sure no one charges too much, or stipulating limits to profit. I can guess how far that will go....


Now CD, how do you really expect anyone here to answer for all Mini dealers? If you want to place a deposit on a car with a dealer, you should make sure that it's 1) refundible and 2) that they're OK with you bringing another buyer in if you change your mind. If you do that then go ahead and buy a place in line! More power to ya!

For the most part, private party sales are the closest thing we have to free market action. The corrective force for screwing the market is to not make a sale. The item sold. The buyer, seller and dealer are all happy. Where's the problem?

Matt

 

Its a matter of philosophy. Most stuff is used parts or whatever. If you make a few bucks, thats fine. Nobody cares. Philosophically, making $4K profit on a place in a line isn't quite the same. No good or services even exchange hands in the transaction ... its all paper.

Since this is just a philosophical arguement, we will never come to agreement.

Do I want to change the guidelines? No, why bother, as far as I can see, its never come up before nor is it worth any hassle. I'll say for the last time that I do no "philosophically" agree with the concept of selling a place in a line for $4K profit and necessarily a good thing here. eBay is fine.

Let's put it this way. Surely say the 08 JCWs may be something desired. Why not speculate on the market? Drop 10 - 20 deposits down (refundable of course) at different dealers across the country. As the cars are built, now you got a virtual inventory of JCW cars for sale ... Sell at a profit to those who don't want to wait! Can't sell a car and the deadline approaches for deliver? Well the deposit was refundable!

In fact, I'm surprised people haven't tried this already ... you could become a virtual dealer in the new model JCWs, corner the market. Maybe put down a deposit at every dealer (70+ dealers) ... Speculate

 

chows4us -- actually, there are high-line leasing companies that do EXACTLY what you're describing with moderate success on high $ or "hot" cars. Normally, they have enough of a "volume" relationship with the dealer(s) they work with, that this is seen as beneficial to both parties.

 

I think through all this soapbox talking, bottom line is, it comes down to the buyer. Obviously, those who think it is not fair to make a buck on a high demand product, then that's YOUR deal, no one else. Those of us that are argueing the point that no harm is done in buyin a spot in line, is to in a way, protect the future buyer of appearing stupid of paying more than what the dealer is selling it for. Chow and CD might think he's dumb, but I don't and I think the future buyer would agree that he's an ok guy for buying.

Call it scalping a Mini, I don't care, but those who buy a car aren't breaking the law like the folks who sit outside a playoff game stadium. Like it or not, no laws were broken and all parties are happy. Live with it.

 

Jesus H. Christ! You people have one hell of a lot of time on your hands. Shouldn't you be armor plating Humvees or something? We're a nation at war.

 

But which one?
The war in Iraq?
The war in Afganistan?
The war aginst terror?
The war against drugs?
The war against heart desease?
The war against tooth decay?
The war against obesity?
The war against cancer?
The war on illiteracy?

On the NPR radio show "wait wait don't tell me" one of the participants pointed out that with our success record on "wars" we ought to do things like declare war on the spotted owl.... Then it's sure to flourish!

Matt

 

Very PI, Matt!

 

A quick pause; does anyone know what the H. stands for? I've just heard the expression so many times and nevered wondered until seeing it written down . One of the many idiosyncrasies of electronic communication.

 

"Horatio" but I don't know for sure!

Matt

 

Actually, I understand its done all the time with Ferraris. I've read you just can't go buy a new Ferrari from the factory if you just hit Lotto but have had to buy in the past, maybe a used one. Catch-22.

So previous owners buy an Envo and immediately resell at twice the price. Must be nice

 

the guy across the street was interested in a 430. Would get rid of his 355 and Testarossa for it. Price was high and wait was long. Now he could buy a used one for less than a new one would cost, and have less of a wait..... Not all Ferrari owners have instant profit. I've also heard that if you abuse your special status and re-sell very rare cars, you may not get to keep your very special status that long.... But who knows for sure...

Matt

 

The Discovery Channel had a piece on Ferrari owners and their owners in NE. They were doing track days at Lime Rock and explaining how you just can't order one from the factory without having some kind of "in".

Interesting piece and some of those guys DO use their Ferraris as daily drivers ... whats the point of owning it if you dont use it

 

if the weather is good, I hear one fire up at about 6:30 am for a drive to Capitola. So it's not a daily driver... But it logs a good amount of miles. I just get to live vicariously....

Matt

 

Wow... I can't believe the course this thread has taken.

Thanks to the OP for posting a shot at a GP here on NAM for cheaper than anyone else not on the list could get one.

 

Oh, and I was taught that the H, if it stood for anything (its not like it says this in the Bible since its pretty much used when taking the Lord's name in vain), stood for Holy or maybe Hallowed.

 

Matt

Congrats on the sale! See ya next season. :-)