At the 2300 mile mark on my 07' MCS I have had several extended outings on some remote, fast & challenging serpentine backroads in N. Texas (very familar to folks in the N. Texas Metroplex Mini community.)
-I have observed an odd & potentially disturbing suspension issue: At high speeds when encountering an relatively minor road surface irregularity like an asphalt patch or a surface seam, the car skips & scoots across the road as it's loosing traction. This "Skipping" problem or upsetting of the suspension is a concern to me.
-At fast(er) speeds mid-way through a sweeping corner such road surface irregularities cause the car to skip, drift and loose traction rather violently, making it a serious control issue. This happens with or w/o the DSG engaged but it is less pronounced sans DSG. My car has the sports suspension, R90's and the better of the 17" Dunlop "sport" 9000 RF's.
-Compared to either of my former R53 MCS Works car's (both w/ H. Sports springs ,Koni yellows, H.sport R.sway, 17" SSR Comps & very sticky tires) on the same roads at the same speeds the R56 seems to be easier to upset & unsettle.
Initally I blamed the "skipping" on the OE RF's & the heavy OE wheels but after a lot of driving & note taking I think there is more to the story.
Any thoughts?
Thanks
PS. It is & was my intention to do suspension work to the car anyway so the issues may be solveable. My 1st goal is non-RF's and light weight 17 wheels (most likely BBS RV-F's)

 

I'd be interested to hear whether this happens with the standard suspension. I thought I had read a review saying that handling on rough surfaces was quite good. Can't recall whether it was the standard or sport suspension.

 

Marksmith, have you had a chance to drive your MINI on a soaped skidpad? I did a couple of weekends ago, and we (the instructor and I) weren't able to get the car to spin, with or without DSC, and also jamming on the emergency brake suddenly. This is with a standard suspension. Personally, I don't worry about the skipping I've also noticed. I've experienced it in my old BMW, too.

 

I have had a lot of my BMW's and other cars on these same roads but the R56 that has the worst manners in this regards. My guess is it's the sport suspension, spring rates, rebound, TORQUE and the RF's conspiring in consort.
The R56 has so much more torque that when powering through a turn is it can be interesting (a two fisted affair.)
-On a positve note: when the roads are smooth(er) the R56 is a bloody screamer and holds on like a prize fighter. Very impressive.

 

Mark,
As you know, I've noticed the same behavior and I can help narrow this down by eliminating the run-flats from the equation. Mine does the same on all season sport non-run-flats. It's definitely a suspension thing. I would almost swear that I have experienced bump-steer too. My R53 is far more stable. (but there is nothing stock in the R53 suspension anymore).

 

I have not had my new MINI out on these types of roads at fast enough speeds to see this. However, my 2002 Cooper had the R90 wheels with Pirelli Eufori@ tires. With and without the coilover suspension I installed, the car behaved the way you described. Using 15 or 16 inch wheels with high performance tires and no runflats seemed to help alot. With the new MINI, I am watching out for light, nice looking wheels that are easy to clean. Haven't found any yet.

 

I'd be really interested in hearing where these roads are :D.

 

Tony, I was hoping you'd say the non-RF's made it better. Actually the Car & Driver critique in this months issue refers to the "unloading" of the drive wheels on less than perfect roads. I do remember my 05' MCS before the suspension mods being a bit jumpy too.
-Overall the R56 really sticks it to the ground in very fast sweeping turns: more planted, stable and resolved than the stock R53 in this sense. Maybe it's the nature of the beast that the R56 has one (or two) sore points. I think it's worth putting up with! Wow C&D really bashed the R56.
-What's up w/ that?

 

My $.02...... It seems to me that there is a trade-off between ultimate smooth pavement road-holding and behavior on broken or ridged pavement. Having driven an R53 JCW and and R56 (although w/o sports suspension) at speed, and owning an R50 with standard (not +) suspension, I honestly believe that the R50 is more composed when the pavement gets rough. In a long sweeper with a bump in the middle, it stays calmer than the stiffer suspensions do on the same curve, although on a smooth track you obviously give up ultimate grip. The sport suspensions are going to be a little jumpier on the rough spots, and without getting way out of the MINI's price range, I believe that will be generally true. CD thought it was too jumpy, I don't. Just make sure what you're buying is what you want.

 

It's a combination of the road, the unsprung weight ratio and your shocks. And one more thing, your perceptions. Do you really know the speed to the MPH that all your cars have taken this road? Perhaps the R56 does not seem as fast? You're taking notes so maybe you do know for sure. I've heard other cases of people going to Koni shocks and reporting miracles. Maybe that's helping your R53? There will always be 'those bumps' that tend to upset one suspension setup more than another. Maybe Texas has more of those than MINI accounted for?

 

Interesting! This happened to me the other day on a bumpy surface curve. It's really not such a good thing. It makes you overly cautious when entering curves having unknown surfaces.

My car is an MCS with 17" S-Lites, Goodyear Eagle run-flats, DSC and no other car handling options.

I don't race, but still, having it happen is a bit disconcerting.

 

Slow down.

 

In the end it may well be that the jumpy nature of the car is just the way it is: R56's OE sports spring rate, the strut rebound & the combination of the heavy wheels & RF's. The fast mid-turn jump/scoot at WOT takes some getting used to.
-I traded a very tricked out Audi A3 turbo DSG for my R56 (my 3rd Mini) because the Audi was so boring as a daily driver (but a very good car on so many levels.) It was however very silky in the fast sweepers & never made me feel nervous like the R56 does. And yes, I know specific speeds for all my cars I drive on these circuits. The R56 is a bit slower than my Dinan S2 Z4 in the fast sections but it RIPS when the turbo spools up. WOW! The very reason I got the R56!!
-My plan (as always) is to do Hsport springs w/ Koni yellow's and a rear sway as soon as they are out. This combo has worked wonders w/ my BMW's and Mini's. The best of two worlds. The cost is another matter.
I do hope the R56 suspension can be helped along w/ a few well engineered mods because the basic package is very, very impressive.

 

So if I'm reading this right the skipping is the tires quickley loosing and regaining traction? Not the suspension bouncing or hoping on the pavement.

If so, I would give a +1 pointing my finger at tires as the culprit.

 

Didn't Ryaphile(Ryan) in another post state that the r56 had very little susp travel (less than an inch!?). If so, you're, as you thought, probably on the bump stops. That'll make my race car jump sideways and with the r56's short wheel base, it'd be a handful.

I think I ran into that on my test drive of an MCS on hard 2nd/3rd gear bumpy 90 degree turns. Not too bad and the car didn't have DCS. DSC has been known to freak out with too many inputs. Many of the Porsche guys are unhappy with their active susp/dsc in the new 997.

Interesting to see what happens with your susp mods

 

That was after lowering.

Since, he has since driven the car hard on 18" rims with better rubber and posted his impressions elsewhere. Nothing close to the "skipping" as described by marksmith.

Since it's doing it with the DSC off, it's safe to say that's not it.

Ryephile doesn't have sport suspention... so again, my guess is that the sport suspention (with the stiffer charactoristics) is transferring more force at a faster rate from the weight shift of the vehicle onto the tires. Quickley exceeding the traction limits of the runflats.

Again, I suspect the skipping is the tire loosing, then regaining traction in sucession. Stutter-stepping across the pavement as it does so. Variations in pavement (rippling, ruts and quality) only excentuate this loss of traction and force the issue to arise sooner than it would on smooth pavement, or with a little more supple suspention.

I've experienced this before setting up suspention of race bikes. Much more scary on two wheels. I've comfortably had two wheels sliding through a corner on a bike, on the gas, stearing with the rear... but having one go on you than catch, only to go again and catch (skipping, if you will). Super freaky! (yes that's a technical term ). It's what big nasty high-sides are made of: the rear finally catches with enough force to throw you up and over the top of the bike!

 

msh411,

You're officially crazy! Race Bikes! I don't like my bike stuttering across the road! You setting up for a very bumpy seattle track?

Thanks for the clarification about Ryephile's susp travel. Aren't we probably saying the same thing? Cars susp can't deal with whatever: travel, rebound, slip angles, grip. Tire lifts, car scoots sideways, catches and releases.

It'll be interesting to hear the initial hotshoes susp fixes for the MCS unsettled handling.

 

Yeah, Seattle leaves somthing to be desired in certain areas. the east end coming around the drag racing pits springs to mind. Yuck!

As far as saying the same thing, I think you're right to a certain degree for sure. The suspention and tires have to work together for the same purpose: Keeping the wheels planted on the road. As one system improves, it exposes the faults of another down the chain. I think the stiffer sport suspention has reduced body roll and possibly diving under braking (improvements, sure), but now the aditional rigidity is exposing the traction limitation of the runflat tires (one of the reasons things were softened a bit in the first place, if I'm recalling correctly).

Aren't car mods fun? Man, I can't wait to play, too!

One more week... one more week...one more week...:impatient