Well, after driving the car stock to get the feel for it, I have started the testing process for the baseline numbers. We used the R56 as well as and R53 with typical mods to compare. ficcion and I did same gear timed RPM runs as well as autocross testing. I also will be doing dyno runs back to back with R53 data on Monday.

I will be posting the numbers after I've gathered all the data, but suffice it to say, at altitude at least, that my initial impressions were dead right.

Watch this space...

 

Here is the first installment of our collective data.

The first test was a same gear acceleration test. We used a full tank of fuel, and used the same piece of track each time. Wind was calm, and the temperature was 61F. The cars were both at operating temp. We used a 2002 MINI Cooper S with Milltek exhaust, 15% pulley, IK22 plugs and CAI. Pretty typical mods. The 2007 was bone stock. Both cars were using wheels that weighed in within a pound of each other. The 2002 did have the sunroof, but it also carries less fuel than the 2007, so I figured it was close to even. Both cars carried myself and the data recorder (ficcion).

The test is a timed run in second gear from 2000 RPM to 6500 RPM. Each car was run 6 times - and then another 6 runs were made with the Sport button on with the R56.

Here is the first data set:

2002

8.93 seconds
8.97 seconds
8.89 seconds
8.92 seconds
8.95 seconds
8.98 seconds

2007

5.48 seconds
5.56 seconds
5.47 seconds
5.51 seconds
5.49 seconds
5.47 seconds

2007 Sport on

5.52 seconds
5.49 seconds
5.53 seconds
5.51 seconds
5.46 seconds
5.43 seconds

I was honestly surprised by this, and we tried to get better on the R53 and simply couldn't! Like I mentioned in earlier threads, I think our altitude, ~6000', gives the R56 a much greater advantage over the R53 than it would have at sea level. Data is data though, so we couldn't argue with it. The control was proper, and the numbers are correct.

The next test was the slalom. Tire pressure was the same in both cars. The R53 has both H-Sport springs and a 22mm rear swaybar. The R56 has the factory Sport Suspension. We did MANY runs in both cars, with the R56 in Sport and non-Sport mode. This was with just me driving, as ficcion timed at the start/finish. Temp was the same, and the winds had picked up to 7 knots.

Here are the times:

2002

4.78 seconds
4.72 seconds
4.79 seconds
4.80 seconds
4.76 seconds
4.78 seconds

2007

4.81 seconds
4.76 seconds
4.75 seconds
4.80 seconds
4.76 seconds
4.76 seconds

2007 Sport on

4.81 seconds
4.75 seconds
4.74 seconds
4.74 seconds
4.74 seconds
4.74 seconds

The last test we did was a mini-autocross course. We had a tight 5 cone slalom and a wider 3 cone slalom tied together with a not quite 180 and a finish turn of 90 degrees. Again, it was just me in the car, same weather.

Here are the times:

2002

16.52 seconds
15.82 seconds
15.80 seconds
15.79 seconds
15.67 seconds
15.69 seconds

2007

15.06 seconds
15.31 seconds
15.05 seconds
14.98 seconds
15.02 seconds
15.01 seconds

2007 Sport on

15.08 seconds
14.97 seconds
14.78 seconds
14.85 seconds
14.68 seconds
14.92 seconds

While this is a short course, it did give me some good data and good ideas on the two cars side by side. The R56 still understeers with the stock suspension. The R56's additional power will make a bigger difference the longer and wider the course. The Sport button, while making a small difference, really isn't that dramatic. The R56 is much harder to launch than the R53 (though I'm sure with practice I will get it). That would make an even bigger difference on the times from the mini-autocross course, as that was the only test done from a stop.

Stay tuned!!!

Randy

 

Thanks for the numbers Randy. Looking forward to more

 

good stuff randy... this like for me (like your self) gives fact to what I could feel in just driving... exciting stuff... keep it up!

 

What do you think accounts for the negligible time differences in the second gear tests of the '07 with Sport OFF or ON?

. . . and, in the same test - the almost 3 second difference with the modded '02 is astounding! Is this mostly a result of all this new found torque we've been hearing about?

 

Sport on doesn't seem to do anything to power, which confirms one story I had heard. It changes the steering only.

On the 3 second difference, I think there are a couple of factors at play. The first is the gearing - I used the older model to do the testing because that is what I have for a test car, and it has the old gearing. The second is the altitude, as I already pointed out. A turbo will have more advantage at altitude than does a supercharger. Third, the big difference is the torque (and I think that accounts for most of the time delta).

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

Just like the BMWs the sport button doesnt increase power it has more to do with throttle response. Since the cars are "throttle by wire" it just give you a quicker throttle response.

 

Great info Randy.
What tires were on the cars? Did the R56 still have its runflats?

 

Yes - runflats, performance issue. I had the 16" Bridgespokes with the Goodyear Excellence 195/55-16 tires on the R56.

Randy

 

Great thread! I can't wait to see the mods you do to your R56.

 

The first will be the Extreme rear swaybar, the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 in a 17x8 with a 38mm offset and some 235/40-17 Bridgestone RE01R tires, the Milltek full system, a WMS SportBox intake, and H&R springs (hopefully all by Vegas). The Unichip will follow shortly after.

I will test each as they are installed.

Hope that helps!
Randy

 

What is included in the Miltek full system?

Thanks, Dave

 

Right now, the turbo-back.

Randy

 

Thanks!

How much HP and Torque gains are you expecting? Are you doing anything to the ECU?

 

Randy,
It is Uber cool that you not only made time for this kind of testing, but shared results & thoughts with the rest of us.
Billie

 

Thanks! Yeah, I like to have a good baseline to know what our changes are actually doing. Once I have that, I can build on it - but it is hard leaving it stock!

Now comes the fun....

Randy

 

Just a quick correction - the numbers above I have posted I said were from 2500-6500 RPM, when it was actually 2000-6500 RPM. I will edit the original post, but wanted to show record of the correction in the thread to avoid confusion .

Randy

 

So, Sport On won't effect the gas mileage?

 

where else can somebody find data for diff. between the R53 and R56 in terms of 0-60. 1/4 and such specs?

 

Thanks Randy for the early data.

Some comments about making some sense of the data.

Shorter time in the R56 to reach 6500 rpm is interesting but needs to looked at in relation to peak torque/torque curve and top speed in 2nd gear in relation to first and third gears for each MINI. Depending on which MINI and it's gearing some will hit 2nd only while others may reach 3rd. Alot depends on the driver and the course setup that month.

For autocross, if all of the R53 runs were done before all of the R56 runs then the faster times on the later runs could be due to driver skill level increasing with familiarity of driving the course. In addition as the day wears on a small amount of rubber is laid down on the course in the right places during each run which helps the later runs turn faster times.

Another thing that comes to mind that might limit the autocross times is that using street tires for both may severely limit the car with more suspension tuning. So I would like to see similar tests done on both cars using the same rims and competition R compound tires. My point is that traction limitations for the street rubber may hinder times more in one vehicle than the other. It's worth considering.

I'd like to know which tires and 16" rims were used for the R53.

And did the R56 have factory LSD? We know that the R53 did not.
Another good comparison would be a 2006 MCS with LSD stock using the same tires. Might be competitive.

All this means our old R53s are barely keeping up. Oh well. At least the new MINIs are pretty potent right out of the box bone stock.

Finally, Which was more fun to drive????

 

So THAT's why it feels so different. For someone knew to driving a MINI, I have to say that the Sports button feels like an increase in power. Especially during this break-in period, when I'm driving it pretty calmly, that button gives the impression of more power in addition to the obvious tighter steering. I guess after the break-in, when I can drive it harder I may feel like there is less of a difference.

 

What do you mean "our"? YOUR r53 (especially with you driving) is gonna run circles around my r56!

 

Not really. We already have seen that Mike W.'s 2005 MCS with LSD in stock form and light SSR comp 16" wheels with Hoosier A6s are beating the raw times of other Street Mod class MINIs.

Staying 2 to 3 seconds faster than him is a real chore and nearly impossible given my current skill level. Put Mike in a new R56 and that would be a nightmare for the rest of the field.

So you'll have to drive your new R56 enough to get used to it and make the most out of your natural factory endowed advantage.

 

Hey Randy, have U noticed any 1. torque steer and 2. turbo lag with R56? Reason I ask is that both seemed pretty pronounced, esp. the former, on the Schomp demo R56 I took out briefly last week.

However, if I could retrofit those new seats in my 05 S I'd do it in a heartbeat. Sweet.

Good info, tks.

 

I wouldn't call it torque steer per se, not in the Dodge SRT-4 sense. The R56, with it's massive low-end torque, has more of a steering resistance when you floor it. As for turbo lag, LOL, it's not there, unless you think 0.1 seconds is considered lag. According to my datalogging, by the time you've floored it the turbo is already pushing 10psig to the engine at anything over 2k rpm; simply amazing!