Above and behind the Keg I “velcro’d” the Ventura interface (barely visible in the pics). Beyond that is about 300’ of cable (shorter cables don’t appear to exist) zip-tied to the wheel-well seam. There’s actually room *inside* the Keg to hard-wire the Ventura interface and forego all that cable and connectors but that’d be a lot of work. It sounds perfect as it is so I have little motivation.

No modifications of any sort were made to the car in any way. Just stuck on some Velcro and plugged ‘er in to the factory wiring.

MP3’s:

The PhatBox has limited multi-codec support. MP3Pro is of course not supported, Ogg support is in early beta, WMA support covers only versions 8 and lower, AAC support hasn’t even been mentioned. MP3 support however, is excellent, up to 320K VBR. Also of note is Audible codec (downloadable books on tape) and lossless FLAC codec support. The freely available PhatNoise software is yours to try before you buy and rips, encodes, organizes, plays, manages, and transfers your music collection with ease. The new version even has a foolproof direct CD-to-cartridge function. CD’s take about 3-5 minutes to convert to MP3 with the average computer and the song/artist/album names are automatically determined through the magic of the Internet. Purists will surely prefer to use EAC/LAME but the PhatNoise software is very capable and easy to use. Medium quality (128K to 192K) MP3’s sound fantastic, cannot be discerned from the original CD by my ears, and require about 6MB storage each. The Palm Pilot-sized hard drive cartridge docks with the PC in an included Palm Pilot-type cradle for file transfers.

The PhatBox offers gapless playback of Ogg and FLAC files but offers no crossfading or other workarounds to the gapless limitations of the MP3 format.

If Kazaa Lite causes smoke to pour from your cable modem, you obviously *need* a Phatbox but even just a regular Joe who doesn't even know how to turn on the computer speakers can transfer his/her Celine Dion CD collection to the PhatBox with ease.


Organization:

Songs are organized into virtual “discs” by any number of means through the PhatNoise software. Songs can be organized in a variety of ways as well as any combination of methods such as manual, genre, artist, or most recent. For example, disc 5 could consist of the following: Disco (except ABBA’s “Dancing Queen”), U2’s Joshua Tree album, anything considered “Blues”, the Van Halen song “Jump”, and every Madonna song you’ve got. No, I’m not gay, that was just an example. Songs can be referenced by many/all playlists without duplicate copies. WinAmp playlists are also supported but I haven't tried one.

Operation:

The Keg is controlled by the MINI radio exactly like a factory CD changer, steering wheel buttons and all. Playback begins instantly upon source changes, track changes, playlist changes, etc. Fast forward and rewind are pretty slow and silent. The first 6 playlists are selected via the 1-6 buttons. Following the last song in playlist 6 the system automatically advances to playlists 7,8,9,A,B,C. The display will then read CD 7-01, etc. and pressing button 2 will invoke playlist 8, pressing button 5 invokes playlist B. After playing the last song in Playlist C, the system will continue on to Playlist D or return to Playlist 1 accordingly. The MINI radio always shows the correct playlist number/letter. If, for example, you have only 8 playlists and have switched over into the second grouping, button 1 will call track 7-01, button 2 will call 8-01, and buttons 3,4,5, and 6 will also call track 8-01. After the last song in playlist 8 it will switch back to 1-01. To facilitate switching between the 1-6 group, 7-C group, etc. a 1 second empty mp3 can be created and placed at the end of each playlist. Then to get to group 7-C just press 6 followed by the back button and it will play 6-73 or whatever that empty mp3 file is and immediately advance to the next playlist group. The same can be done without the empty mp3 file by holding the back button to rewind from 6-01 into the last seconds of track 6-73. The MINI radio will only display track numbers 01-99, tracks 6-114, 6-214, 6-714, etc. are all shown as 6-14 and oddly, double zeros are not displayed at all so tracks 6-100, 6-500, etc are displayed as simply 6- (see photo)

The Keg is capable of addressing 999 playlists of up to 999 songs each. The MINI radio likely has lower limits. I'd guess 35 playlists (9 + 26) of 999 songs.


Boot up:

The MINI applies power to the changer as soon as the door/hatch is opened. The Keg then begins booting before you even get in and is ready to go by the time the engine is started. Playback begins almost immediately upon release of the starter, resuming at the former volume, track, track position, and random setting. The Keg runs anytime the ignition is on (whether or not the radio is on) but it will only run for about 30 seconds while waiting for you to start the car, if you’re too slow with the ignition it will turn back off. From that point, about 4-5 seconds are needed for it to boot back up once you turn the key, slightly longer than a standard CD player/changer but only by maybe a second. Removing the cartridge is a bit funny since the Keg boots every time the hatch is opened, therefore one must wait the 30 seconds for it to turn back off before removing the cartridge.

Random Mode:

Unlike the available MINI CD changers, invoking random mode does not bizarrely advance to the next disc. With the Keg, playing track 5-47 and pressing “rnd” causes the machine to immediately jump to a random song *within list 5* and the display will then read, “CD 5-23 RND” for example. When the random button is pressed again, playback is not interrupted, the RND indicator turns off and the system continues in linear order. It will not play random selections from multiple discs but you can create a playlist with “everything” and just play that list randomly if you wish. When the car is turned off all settings are retained, upon return the Keg continues in random mode at the same point in the same track. I assume the “seed” is maintained as well but have not tested that theory. The MINI head unit is unaware of the resuming random feature however and does not show “RND” on the display upon returning to the car with random mode invoked. Pressing the random button at that point turns *off* random mode but turns *on* the “RND” indicator. Kind of like a 3-way light switch, it is backwards half the time.

Sound Quality:

PhatNoise is very proud of their high S/N ratio and high quality D/A converters (even the old one in the 710). The newest models feature Burr-Brown DAC and OpAmps but even the previous versions were very highly rated. As far as I know, there is no higher quality alternative. The PhatBox signal quality makes mincemeat out of the Denison DMP3 and of course the miserably poor iPod and most other portables. With the lossless FLAC codec, I expect the Keg to outperform any CD changer on the market as well. It, of course, does not skip – ever (and boy is that an improvement over the factory CD player!)

Reliability:

Unlike the Denison DMP3, the PhatBox uses notebook hard drives which are much more shock and vibration tolerant than their bulky desktop cousins. Nonetheless, I suggest a soft mounting in a vertical or horizontal position for even greater life expectancy – no grounding is needed. Only once thus far, I have needed to disconnect the power from the Ventura adapter to reset the box after having replaced the cartridge. I have heard that this is occasionally necessary with BlitzSafe/Alpine 6-disc setups as well.

Upgradeability:

PhatNoise sells replacement cartridges from 20GB to 60GB priced at $179, $249, and $349. The cartridges are easily disassembled and contain standard Toshiba 2.5” drives but in an unfortunate lapse of internet-age ethics, PhatNoise chose to implement a nasty “upgrade prevention” scheme. The drive’s BIOS identification string has been changed from “Toshiba MK4016GAS” to “PhatNoise DMS 10GB A4.01 E” and the ROM in the box checks for that string upon boot. Toshiba hard drive BIOS’s are difficult to find but I have found a good supply from IBM. I thoroughly examined the files with a hex editor but found only garbage -- I assume they're compressed. If anyone has any leads on BIOS modification, specifically with regards to my 40GB MK4019 GAX, I’m all ears.




_________________

2004 MCS-CR/W-Sport Pkg-Cold Pkg-17" R99's-bonnet stripes-PIAA

 

Excellent write-up - thanks.
Just to clarify ... you are running a standard Kenwood Keg without SSA, through a Ventura interface to the stock HU?
So you have no display of artist/track/album name?

The Phatbox can be navigated by artist, album, genre, playlist - now do you navigate?

 

Yes, excellent write up. I am going to be sticking to my MD though. It is just my thing...

 

Thanks guys.

iancull: True. Correct. True. Yes. I organize music into 6 to 12 playlists (the limit is probably 32) and use the factory disk/track buttons for navigation. Finding one particular song is virtually impossible. I'm happy just having a random assortment of classic rock on button 4 and some mellow acoustical songs on button 1 etc.

Oh, forgot to mention: The "CD 2- " shown in the bottom picture is what the display reads on track 2-100, 2-200, etc.

 

Hey vespa,

How is the mount that you did holding up? I just got my Phatbox and I'm mulling over how I should install it. From what I can find, you're the only one out there that has published an installation.

My concern with the velcro is that in the summer heat, it will get all gooey and then the Phatbox will just slide down the car. Has it been hot were you are yet and have you had any problems?

Thanks for the info!

 

Ill stick with my 30 gig iPod...a lot smaller.

 

Whatever happen to the good ol' MIND BLowers Speakers and Pioneer Super Tuner???

I would like to upgrade my system but with so much to choose from and it will cost a small fortune I guess I will be turning up the stock system louder to drown out the sound coming from your cars.

 

Just finished the first part of my new stereo install.
The Kenwood Keg is installed where the HK DSP amp was originally - behind the passenger side rear quarter panel.
I used the bracket that originally was used to mount the amp, with a little custom drilling.
I had to remove the heavy metal finned cover of the Keg - it is for show only (and maybe to make you think you got your moneys worth) since there are no parts to get hot in there.
A very skilled colleague at work fashioned a curving metal plate to keep the Keg electronics protected (though behind the quarter panel they are probably OK).

Installed a Kenwood 759 in place of the stock HU and got all the wiring in. For now the new HU is feeding the HK amp which in turn drives the speakers (second phase is a new amp and all new speakers).

Had to jury rig the old HU connected to the B+/B- and Kbus signal so that the HK amp would work - so curiously I can now control volume, bass, treble etc with the new HU controls or with the old HU controls(!)

Pics if anyone interested ... too late to post tonight,

 

I'd like to see pics of the new HU, Ian.

 

Picture time :smile:

My new Kenwood 759 HU is installed, connected to the Kenwood Keg and working fine!

I think it looks pretty fine ... the blue lighting matches the Lapis interior, and the red buttons are reminiscent of the "S" logo and the Union Jack on the roof (that is my story anyway!)

Looks fine closed too:


Hard to believe how many wires I had to hide, and there is not a lot of room (is that why they are called MINIs!):

I got adaptors from MikeyTheMini on MINI2, so no cutting of the stock wiring.

The RCA outputs are wired to the trunk but not connected yet; for now the front speakers are driving the HK DSP amp which in turn "manipulates" the sound and drives the speakers.
So the HK DSP amp is still connected - but it needs the old HU connected too:

Four wires is enough - B+, B-, Accessory B+ and Kbus.
Funny thing is that the audio controls on the old HU still affect the sound, including volume ... so my steering controls still work without installing the SWIX (at least, until I put in my new amp).


I mounted the Kenwood Keg where the HK amp usually goes, behind the right hand access point in the trunk. Had to remove the huge cover to get it in there, and adapted the HK amp bracket:



My colleague at work made a nice new cover:




Listening today, everything is fine. The Keg plays without jumping (even hitting a huge pothole this morning); sound quality already seems better than with the stock HU which surprised me!
I can't wait till the new amp and speakers go in ...

 

That new enclosure your buddy made looks great. Thanks for all the pics.

I have not been as enthusiastic about installing the PB as you have been. Right now, I just have it strapped to the boot floor with a bungie! A bit embarrasing, but it works for now. I picked up a changer mounting bracket today and I'm going to try to modify that for my mount. I wonder if they sell those brackets for the HK amp somewhere - I like the idea of it being in behind the access panel, out of sight and all, but I want to be able to take the DMS out easily too.

I'll probably change my mind a couple of times before I'm done...

 

>>I can't wait till the new amp and speakers go in ...
>>

looks amazing.... so wat is the total price of head unit and kenwood keg?? is there anyway to buy a head unit like that and hook up an IPod or something else and have an outread like an MP3 Player??

 

Toast,
I am sure you could get an HK bracket from the dealership - don't know what price though. It is labelled "MINI 6510 1515126-4 110068-10 GB>Fe/Zn"; no idea if any of those numbers would be recognized by a dealership!

EliteCooperS,
You can get many aftermarket HUs with display and aux in, but unless there is a defined standard for how to tell the display what words to show then you would be stuck.
There is an evolving semi-standard for satellite radio - perhaps in time Apple could do an adaptor to convert iPod music & display to satellite info to connect to any satellite ready HU.

The HU was last years model on clearance at $280; I talked the Keg down to $500.

 

111 degrees and counting, Toast. And no, that's not a typo -- I live very close to the sun. The car actually spent the last two weeks baking in a giant unshaded parking lot out in the middle of the desert. Temperatures were in the 105-110 range every day. With the sun beating on the car like that, I estimate that the temperature inside the fender was probably close to a million degrees yet the velcro held up perfectly. Like I said, this stuff is crazy sticky -- not at all like the cheap common velcro.

Keg's working marvelously. Sounds perfect and has not had a single problem. The interface to the factory HU is working well but not perfect. If I remove and/or replace the cartridge before the Keg powers off I need to futz around with unplugging the Ventura adapter in order to get it functional again. Also, I added a bunch more playlists and subsequently lost the ability to navigate them properly. It still moves sequentially from the end of list 6 to the beginning of list 7 but now buttons 1-6 *always* invoke playlists 1-6 whereas they used to invoke lists 7-C and D-I accordingly. Haven't figured out the problem just yet. Just got a USB2.0 cradle so the troubleshooting process will now be *much* quicker.

 

how bout the KHD-C710 (cheaper keg) w/ only 10 GB and the optimized HU (not sure if it is even a HU, it says adaptor that u plug into FM Tuner) the KCA-R70FM, even though i would like to have a HU w/ a in-dash single CD... any input, and is there any thing like a portbale iPod kenwood keg??

i think i figured it out... i think u buy this adaptor thing and mount somewhere else in the car.. which is kind of cool, but then why not just get an iPod and mount it on ur dash!!

_________________
Young MINI Motorers

 

The KCA-R70FM seems to give you a small display and some control buttons; the upside is it is inexpensive - even with the 20GB Keg, the price is lower than the Phatbox.
Downside is that FM modulated input is not as good as direct input - but it is probably good enough?

As you say, an iPod with AUX input adaptor might be better still ... each to their own

 

>>The KCA-R70FM seems to give you a small display and some control buttons; the upside is it is inexpensive - even with the 20GB Keg, the price is lower than the Phatbox.
>>Downside is that FM modulated input is not as good as direct input - but it is probably good enough?
>>
>>As you say, an iPod with AUX input adaptor might be better still ... each to their own
>>

wat is the phatbox vs 10 gb vs 20 gb???

wat is a cheap HU that is compatible w/ keg?

the thing is.... is the ipod good quality??

 

The Phatbox is like the Kenwood Keg but can work as a CD changer with your stock HU (but nearly $900). When connected to the MINI you get the "SSA" interface which *SPEAKS* track titles, artists, etc and lets you search by many means. Probably very cool :smile:

The 10gb/20gb is how much storage you have - either way you can buy 40gb or even 60gb cartridges if you can afford them.

No idea on iPod quality - never heard bad about it though.

The Kenwood Keg works *directly* with many Kenwood HUs - check their web site for more. And with the KCA-R70FM adaptor, it would work with any HU which can receive FM.

If you get a Kenwood HU and the Keg you have the advantage of track titles etc displaying on the HU display; tidier than other solutions.

 

Toast,
Check this page out from the Velcro people people:
http://www.velcro.com/industrial/index.html
sounds like they were thinking of your install problem when they created this stuff.

 

Nice write-up. I also did some quick research and found the following for non-windows people:

Will there be Macintosh, Linux, or BeOS versions of the PhatNoise Music Manager?

While the PhatNoise Music Manager is only supported on Windows, it has been shown to run on MacOS 9.1 running VirtualPC 4.0 and Windows 98SE, and MacOS 10.2 running VirtualPC 6 and Windows 2000/XP. PhatNoise also provides a small, unsupported utility which Linux and Mac OS X users can use to create playlists. Several users have written programs around these to integrate with iTunes and Linux playlists. See unix.phatnoise.com for more information.

So while I don't have one and don't have the money for one right now, it looks cool.
-Chris

 

EliteCooperS: The cheaper KHD-C710 Keg is what I used in the first post. It has a metal inner case so there's no need to fabricate a cover when stripping it down for cubby mounting but it lacks the DAC circuitry improvements of the 910 and Phatbox models. The KCA-R70FM Control panel can be used for navigation and text display but you would not use FM modulation -- the Keg has RCA outputs to connect to the factory stereo's Aux input terminal. It's almost the size of a standard radio (includes a DIN size faceplate adapter) but only 1/2" thick. It will control the Keg and a satellite system simultaneously.


There is no way that I know of to maintain steering wheel and HU control of the Keg while enjoying the text output and navigation features of the R70FM.

Hank: They're not kidding about that Velcro. Mine's labeled "Industrial Strength" but has no numbers so I don't know if it's the 0175 stuff you linked to. The package does however state that the adhesive requires 24 hours to "cure" if that gives any indication of how sticky it is.

 

>>EliteCooperS: The cheaper KHD-C710 Keg is what I used in the first post. It has a metal inner case so there's no need to fabricate a cover when stripping it down for cubby mounting but it lacks the DAC circuitry improvements of the 910 and Phatbox models. The KCA-R70FM Control panel can be used for navigation and text display but you would not use FM modulation -- the Keg has RCA outputs to connect to the factory stereo's Aux input terminal. It's almost the size of a standard radio (includes a DIN size faceplate adapter) but only 1/2" thick. It will control the Keg and a satellite system simultaneously.
>>
>>
>>There is no way that I know of to maintain steering wheel and HU control of the Keg while enjoying the text output and navigation features of the R70FM.
>>

so does that replace the stock HU??

 

>>so does that replace the stock HU??

No ... it just controls & displays what the Keg is sending to the HU. The HU still does all the amplification, etc.
So you have to find somewhere to mount this display as well.

Now you may understand why I replaced my HU! :smile:

 

Not sure if this thread is still alive...

I have the Music Keg with the KCA-R70FM controller. Right now I have it playing through an FM channel but I'm looking for a way to plug the output from the RCA jacks on the Keg directly into the radio for better fidelity. I don'y know if any of the adaptors (eg. the Blitzsafe or Ventura) will work, or if I can use the "Aux Port" on the radio - I have a july built '02 MCS.

In any case, one goodie I have come across is the SWIX adaptor which will purportedly convert the steering wheel controls to infrared. The KCA-R70FM has infrared as does the Kenwood headunit that some folks are using. You can find info on the SWIX at http://www.go2pac.com

Anyone tried this? Any feedback would be appreciated!

Steve

 

MiniMo,
Your July'02 radio will probably not work with the aux input kit.

There is a blitzsafe adaptor which gives you an aux input via the CD changer wiring of your car - that is probably your best bet.
Blitzsafe link

The SWIX *requires* that you cut the signal from the MFSW that goes to the rest of the car, so you lose steering control of your factory radio; probably not what you wanted!