Okay, I'm pretty sure I know what's up, but I just wanted a few opinions. The only other 'stick shift' I've ever driven was my 1965 Vespa, and if I blew the clutch out on that, it was really easy for me to rebuild... don't think I'll be doing it with the MINI though...

so here are some questions (I have a manual MCS):

1) I feel like I really have to step on it and shift like a mad man to keep up with other traffic off the line when a light turns green... what's up with this? Am I just not shifting fast enough..?

2) When I'm shifting from 1st - 2nd, 2nd - 3rd, etc. should I: clutch in, shift, clutch out, gas or: clutch in, shift, clutch out with a little gas at same time?

3) downshift to a red light or no?

4) sit at a light in first with clutch in or no?

5) going to slow to have clutch out in first (over speedbumps, around corners in the condo complex, etc...) cruise in 1st with clutch in or put it in nuetral?

I think that's all the questions I have... just wanna make sure I am playing nice with my clutch!

Rach

 

Well I think its more preference than anything, but im sure there are right ways of doing it...

here's what i do:

1) You shouldnt have to step on it to get going off the line

2) clutch in, shift, clutch out with a little gas at same time. This is a smooth way of shifting

3) I only down shift to 4th gear, then after that, I throw it in neutral and coast and then break when needed...

4) I heard that holding the clutch in all the time at a stop is bad for it (not sure how true that is)... I typically leave it in neutral though and put it into gear when the light turns green...

5) The rule i live by for corners is "Always be in 2nd gear".. this is where the power is and you can really grip the corners well... over speedbumps? well, depends how large they are... if its a big speedbump, ill push the clutch in and roll over it... 1st gear is for starting from zero, i never use it for anything else.. 2nd gear is my favortie

Those are my driving habits... not saying that its the correct way, but it works for me and I've never had any clutch problems on all of the cars i've owned...

Allen

 

I've heard the same thing. It can't hurt, plus it allows you to rest your left foot.

 

1) I have to rev up our MCS before I let the clutch out, otherwise it will stall. I think the MCS is different because it's such a small motor (1.6) so it doesn't have much torque off idle.

 

[QUOTE=hd05;1217207]Well I think its more preference than anything, but im sure there are right ways of doing it...

1) You shouldnt have to step on it to get going off the line.

Use 1st to get it rolling and then when in the power band, get into 2nd. There is little point in overreving in 1st.

2) clutch in, shift, clutch out with a little gas at same time. This is a smooth way of shifting

Consider a balance, between clutch and gas. As one comes up, the other goes down. When you get it right, you keep the car in the powerband, and the cnages are smooth and effortles.

3) I only down shift to 4th gear, then after that, I throw it in neutral and coast and then break when needed...

I do not agree with this. Changing down always keeps the car under control, you can always brake or accelerate if your in gear. Coasting in neutral is a bad habit. Coming up to lights, change down 4, 3, 2. etc. You have great synchromesh even on 1st on the Getrag gear box... use it!


5) The rule i live by for corners is "Always be in 2nd gear".. this is where the power is ...

You should try to keep the engine "on the cam" in other words, keep the engine in the peak power curver which is probably 4250 RPM - 5500 RPM, rather than trying to specify a gear.

 

1) About 1/2 throttle, shifting around 4k should keep up with traffic.

2) Clutch in, lift off throttle, same time. Select gear. Release clutch as you begin to add throttle.

3) No. the brakes are designed to slow the car, not the motor. Unless you become proficient with heel and toe downshift, you will prevent unecessary engine wear by selecting neutral when slowing and stopping. I'd rather wear out brake pads than internal engine components

4) Absolutely not. That is why you have a 4th pedal all the way to the left, that is the dead pedal. Make it a point to have your foot on that dead pedal anytime you are not selecting a gear.

5) I typically will roll around in neutral or be reeeally smooth with throttle inputs to prevent snapping my passengers neck back and forth. Another consideration is using 2nd gear for slow stuff.

 

I have always used the rule of keep your foot of the clutch as much as possible. Which goes to when sitting at a light (or stop anywhere for that matter) stay in neutral, no clutch.

Another thing I always do is completely take your foot off the clutch between shifts. I know some people like to hover or even just gently ride the clutch peddle usually for that 1 to 2, or 2 to 3 shift. I don't know for sure if it's bad to "hover," but I am sure convinced it is.

As to the gunning it from the line, well that just comes with owning a MINI. You will be surprised suddenly how many people want to race you.

 

Great tips so far guys, thanks alot!

As for people wanting to race, this is true!! Some guy in a thunderbird (do these come in manual??) or something tried to race me last night, and I wasn't even trying.... but he was totally grinding trying to get into second... pretty funny stuff

 

You are probably shifting too fast ! On the MCS, the 'fun' begins beyond 4K and only starts to tail off as you approach 7K......

Figure out where you are shifting (revs) and WHY you are shifting at that point.

From a dead-stop for me, its 'blip' the throttle, then prod it as I let out the clutch, changing at 4K in NORMAL traffic, 5K if I need to move real fast, Second comes up fairly fast after that.....


Lets see, 1st gear, blip, prod throttle, release clutch, reach shift point, back off the throttle and depress clutch a little, shift to second, as I release the clutch I am flooring the throttle again......


me - absolutely, every single time, I may not actually let the clutch out, but I am absolutely in the correct gear for the speed and the circumstances absolutely 100% of the time. I utterly hate it when friends coast up to the lights (5mph) in 5th (or 6th), lights change and I watch them stirring the stick to find an appropriate gear (usually 3rd - UGH) while I watch the traffic pass them on both sides.

Again - YES, I am ready to go, or ready to move, if I 'just' missed the lights, I may sit in neutral, hand-brake on, but 99% of the time I realize that I am going to be there for a short time and I want to be ready.


Whatever is appropriate, often 'clutch it' over the bump, the clutch-in to coast over the back of the hump, then carry on


I ride a motorcycle a lot, there is no 'accessible' neutral, and finding the corredt gear in a hurry is impossible, so I have take the 'correct gear all the time' habit over to cars.

Some people swear by block changing - ie 6th to 2nd etc, but I tend to hardly every skip a ratio, because I am almost obsessive about being in the appropriate gear.

 

Not true at all, when you push the clutch it just moves two plates apart, holding it in does no damage at all.

Tip, for the best start from a light, you must stop driving like the average american with a stick and drive like a european.

Put the e-brake on, wait untill the light is about to change, half engage the clutch so the car is pulling against the e-brake, don't do this for to long as this will burn your clutch, when the like changes let the ebrake off, drop the clutch, and hit the gas. Same concept as a hill start and much faster off the line.

 

WHAT AN EXCELLENT THREAD!

My hubby has been bashing some of my techniques and you ask them and they are answered here. I took a straw poll about these exact questions at work and found most people are driving their manuals the same way I am! Plus, I USED to have another manual...no problems at all!


2) When I shift, I cluth in, shift w/little gas, and cluth out.

3) I don't downshift to get to a red light. I know a couple of semi drivers that say only if you have a big rig is downshifting absolutely necessary...some here may feel different. That's your right and it's okay. Hubby says, you have no control, must downshift...I show him that my coasting to a stop in neutral, isn't from 70 mph, so he's stopped riding me on that. My coasting is way mild and if I needed to get in gear quickly, I could. He says I am tearing up my clutch by how I drive it (makes no sense to me or others who voted in my straw poll election...ha..ha...)...I say a new clutch is cheaper than a new tranny.

4) When I get to a red light, I am in neutral and right before light turns green, I shift in to first...to be ready and not make others wait.

5) Depends on the situation, I either play in neutral or have it second.

Again, good thread...I look forward to other posts and their perspectives. To each his own...

SAFE DRIVING TO ALL!!!!!!!!

 

3) downshift to a red light or no?

4) sit at a light in first with clutch in or no?


Always downshift to a red light. It means you are always in control of the car. Same dynamic for sitting at a red light. If you are in neutral and someone rams you you will roll into the intersection. If you're clutch is engaged then you will stall out and stop if you are hit. I don't always follow it but my teacher a mini racer back in the UK taught me that.... my 2 cents!

 

ohhh...Kodiak...see..that's what I needed... lol...a PICTURE of what happens if you don't do such and such...

I may start driving differently now!

Thanks for sharing!

 

Turn your DSC off when it's not raining and when you're not shooting off the line directly into a curve. This will help launch you forward without wheelspin/burnout. Have you broken in your MINI, gone over the 1250 mile mark? If you have, there's no issue revving your RPMs to the redline and then shift - typically, you should be able to get up to 65mph in 2nd gear before shifting to 3rd. Don't worry about hitting the redline, these engines can handle it. Since you probably have a stock MCS, do you encounter a stumble or yo-yo effect when shooting off the line? A lot of MCS owners experienced a sort of power stumble - one way to fix this is to get a bigger pulley (15%) or get an ECU upgrade. You'll be grinning ear to ear with the new found responsiveness - it truly does kick into action and you should be beating most cars off the line. The only problem is you forget yourself and speed limits and that you have to remember to slow down and take your foot off the gas.

Another way to help launch yourself is to get lighter wheels and tires.

For shifting - practice, practice, practice...until you feel comfortable. As long as you don't grind your gears and keep your foot on the clutch all the time, you should be fine.

What my wife likes to do sometimes is to get to a high rpm, take foot off gas, and then shift....less jerky.

When coming to a stop and I have plenty of space and time, I coast...hopefully, by the time I get to the light it will have already turned green and I can then shift to a higher gear than 1st. I do this as an old habit, I prefer to smoothly glide to a stop than downshift..and because of the notion of saving gas (not much saving though).

Try not to keep the clutch in at a red light...it will just wear on your calf muscle. Put your car in neutral, foot on the brake..and keep an eye on the signal light change.

I coast through speed bumps, again it's my preference to glide through them instead of dealing with need to shift between 1st and 2nd. Just remember to keep the clutch out.

However, when it comes to twisties, I typically keep in 2nd gear and bear with the high rpms going around a curve. Then I shift up if there's enough time after the turn - sometimes you go directly into another curve so you might as well keep in 2nd and keep both hands on the wheel. You should try out some of the twisties in the Canyons of Malibu.

The only real time you will need to keep the clutch in would be when you're stopped on a mountain or steep incline and there's a car behind you.

DSC off unless it's raining or if you're going around tight turns.

 

I pretty much agree with everything HD05 said... 2nd in corners sometimes even 3rd on a left hand turn i don't have to stop for...

also I blip the gas a bit as i'm shifting, it works out alot smoother for me and feels like i get less drag after a shift (= going faster) the car doesn't jerk at all...

 

I think there's some confusion over coasting to a stop. I've seen three variations on the theme... first is to literally throw it in neutral and ride the brake to the stop. The second is the keep the clutch pressed while breaking while continuing to move the stick from gear to gear. The third is to actuall downshift from gear to gear and let the tranny do the stopping. I get the feeling that the folks who are saying that they want to stay in control are doing the 2nd thing, thus always being ready to let the clutch out and be in the correct gear should traffic accelerate again.

As for corners, this is my 4th manual (the others were a 78 Datusun B210 GX (4 spd), a 1987 Sentra (4 spd) and a 1993 Probe (4 cyl, 5 spd)). In all of those, I'd coast into the corner with the clutch in and 2nd gear selected. Then I'd let the cluth out and accelerate out of the corner in 2nd. In the MCS, I've found that unless I'm really creeping through the corner 2nd gear is too jerkey for coming out, so I usually use 3rd.

Fun thread!

 

I feel that it is not necessary to downshift through every gear when getting off the highway. I leave the car in 6th down to about 30 mph. Then, if the light is red I will pop it into neutral and slow the rest of the way down. If I think I will keep going I will heel/toe into 3rd and keep going.

 

Well you should always have your foot on the brake when sitting at a redlight so you shouldn't roll into the intersection if hit from behind

I find downshifting to be fun but I have started coasting in neutral when approaching a redlight because new brake pads are a hec of a lot cheaper than a new $1600 Mini clutch .

p.s...When I first got the Mini I felt that 1st gear needed more gas than I was used to on a manual for a smooth shift but to me the other gears shift smoothly with no extra gass needed.

 

You can of course "hover" to different degrees, but it can certainly be very bad in the extreme.

I've had 2 students at autocross schools in particular. One rode his clutch the entire course. About 3/4 of the way through, you could smell the clutch, and by the time he crossed the finish lights, there was smoke coming out from underneath the car. I asked him to put his foot on the dead pedal for subsequent runs

The other wasn't so extreme, but had a heck of turbo car. She was putting the clutch in around every corner, and slipping it coming out. I told her that this was a bad idea both for speed and for life of the clutch, but I don't think she believed me

 

I think the problem with holding the clutch in at a red light has more to do with the throw-out bearing than the clutch plates.

 

what he said About the only time I leave it in nuetral is when I come to a light that has just turned and I know its going to be a long wait. I don't like the feeling of not being "ready" to react, it really does take an extra second to "get ready" that might make a difference in safety. I have been driving for nearly 30 years and only 5 of those years was an auto, never wore a clutch out, never smelled that awful burning when something goes wrong....

 

While you're preventing unecessary engine wear by not downshifting correctly, you're expediting your brake wear! Learn how to heel/toe downshift correctly, then do it all the time.

Why sit with your foot on the clutch at a red light when you don't have to? I've never heard any mechanic or anyone else worth listening to say that it's good to keep your foot on the clutch; rather, they all say it's bad. I'll err on the side of safety, and it costs me absolutely nothing.

Be in the right gear for the specific turn - someone mentioned being at the right rpm, regardless of the gear, above - go with that. You'll be smoother and safer if you get in said gear before you start turning, ie, downshift/brake in a straight line, then turn and accelerate.

When upshifting - gas and clutch at the same time. You'll know if you gas it too soon if the revs race up then dip down once the clutch engages the gear. It might take some trial and error, but you'll get it.

Finally - try a search on this topic - this is a great thread and there are other equally beneficial ones lurking (especially about heel/toe).

mb

 

Anytime you downshift, try to blip the throttle before you let out the clutch...this way the engine revs will more closely match the speed of the of the drive-train and put less wear on the clutch during engagement. (Also known as rev-matching) It takes some practice but helps save the clutch. Over-revving will make you speed up though, so be careful. Generally though, I agree it is usually better to use your brakes to slow down for routine stops, unless you're on a steep grade. My $.02.... Although it seems like the MINI is less "blippable" (less responsive throttle pedal) than other cars I've drivin.

 

A fun , but serious , recommendation I made on an earlier thread of the same subject. CLICKY

Good luck .

 

OK so here is my 2 cents-
Yes throwing the car into neutral, and using the brakes will stop the car, but a combination of brakes and downshifting allows you to be in gear, and avoid any kind of danger. If your in neutral and coasting all you can do is brake harder- no ability to immediatly acclerate.

While sitting at a light- its really your call. For me depends on how long the light is.

And starting off- I usually "blip" the throttle and ease into accleration as opposed to hot rodding it. The car will tell you when you are in too low of a gear- or to high. All comes with time I guess.....

BTW Vespas are sweet