R50/53 Manual Driving Tips
The reason why you don't want to sit and hold the clutch pedal in is because it just puts strain on the pressure plate for no particular reason. I always sit in neutral at a light and only have the brakes applied when needed (really only on inclines/declines). Everyone has their preferences and you'll hear a variety of explanations why people do what they do. What's most important is you find something you are comfortabe with and if you are able to execute everything in a smooth fashion, I can't see why you'd want to change. If you feel that you aren't shifting fast enough, you could always go to a track to work on making your shifts snappier. My rule of thumb to shifting is that you want to drive most of the time subdued, where you aren't chirping the tires in every gear and the motion of the car is a nice linear progression. It's when you want to drive "spiritedly" that all that smooth action goes out the door and you just want to bang through the gears, in which case you spend less time worrying about smooth shifting and more time spent focusing on the road ahead. As I said before, the track is the best place to learn the variety of techniques people use and as long as you find something you can live with, that's all that really matters. Unless, of course, you want to be a professional driver and you need access to all the small details, in which case you'll probably be better off talking to driving instructors who can teach you all the nuances of shifting. 
GotMINI
GotMINI
3rd Gear
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: NE Ohio
You do not want to have the clutch pedal pressed down while sitting at a light (etc) because there is a little bearing in your clutch called a "throw-out" bearing. If you continually sit with the clutch engaged, this bearing is spinning and it will wear (possibly prematurely).
you also want to use the dead pedal because the weight of your foot on the clutch pedal can cause it to disengage ever so slightly to allow increase wear.
you also want to use the dead pedal because the weight of your foot on the clutch pedal can cause it to disengage ever so slightly to allow increase wear.
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
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From: nnj
Hello!
Lots of advice and info here. it'll take some seat time to get what works for you. Seat position is important as well. Make sure you're able to clutch without stretching. heels might make this problematic.
As for me, I try to be smooth with shifting and clutch action.
most importantly, have fun!
Lots of advice and info here. it'll take some seat time to get what works for you. Seat position is important as well. Make sure you're able to clutch without stretching. heels might make this problematic.
As for me, I try to be smooth with shifting and clutch action.
most importantly, have fun!
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 473
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From: Texas
What a fun thread! Gave me something to think about on my morning commute. I'm a recreational potter, and I can't tell you how I center clay. I just do it. I've driven manual trannies for so long that I couldn't for the life of me write down how-to instructions either. A friend of mine once told me that she almost wasn't aware that my car wasn't an automatic because I shift so smoothly. 
Entering I-30 at rush hour is a different story. 
I had to be really careful during break-in on the Mini not to go into the redline zone. The Volvo tank I used to drive didn't go very fast even in the red zone.
I try to keep an eye on the tach so as not to lug the engine nor push it too hard gearing up. Surely is a kick in the pants when my foot gets heavy. I usually let the engine slow me down approaching a stop. Put the clutch in before the tach drops too low and either gear down or let out the clutch and brake in neutral till stopping. I think it depends on whether I think I'll have to come to a complete stop or if I'll just have to slow down. I always keep my left foot on the dead pedal and my right foot on the brake at stop lights cause my Dad told me this was the preferred way. Course he grew up driving Model T's.
I'm a recreational potter, and I can't tell you how I center clay. I just do it. I've driven manual trannies for so long that I couldn't for the life of me write down how-to instructions either. A friend of mine once told me that she almost wasn't aware that my car wasn't an automatic because I shift so smoothly. Entering I-30 at rush hour is a different story. I had to be really careful during break-in on the Mini not to go into the redline zone. The Volvo tank I used to drive didn't go very fast even in the red zone. I try to keep an eye on the tach so as not to lug the engine nor push it too hard gearing up. Surely is a kick in the pants when my foot gets heavy. I usually let the engine slow me down approaching a stop. Put the clutch in before the tach drops too low and either gear down or let out the clutch and brake in neutral till stopping. I think it depends on whether I think I'll have to come to a complete stop or if I'll just have to slow down. I always keep my left foot on the dead pedal and my right foot on the brake at stop lights cause my Dad told me this was the preferred way. Course he grew up driving Model T's.
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[Kinda off topic post warning]
Perhaps if you guys (and girls) had been taught how to drive in Europe you would find this thread as amusing as I do
This is not meant to be confrontational or hostile, but really, some of the 'old wives tales' and misinformations in this thread is pretty funny.
'All corners should be taken in 2nd'
Yeah right - that 60mph corner I take every morning (at ~60mph - the speed limit) really does not need to be taken in 2nd - 4th or 5th is appropriate. You use the gearbox to put yourself in the appropriate ratio at all times, it's called BASIC CAR CONTROL
Concern over wearing out the release bearing ?
WTF ? The vast majority of clutch 'failures' are friction material related. Most of those are down to high mileage, poor adjustment or
'riding the clutch'. I have no stats on it, but honestly, sitting at the lights with your foot on the clutch has more advantages than a potential isssue with the release bearing wearing.
Maybe you will take the life of that part down from 200K miles to a mere 199K miles - personally I doubt that I will own my mini at that point, but if I do, well I suspect that I will have swapped the clutch and the release bearing before then.
If the wait at the lights is going to be a while, can I suggest that you take it out of gear, and stick the handbrake on ?
Actually that brings up another point, all you manual drivers, when you are at the lights, how exactly do you pull away from a stop ? do you
a) keep your foot on the brake, gas it (side/heel) and release the clutch while transferign your right foot over to the gass pedal completly ?
b) Use the handbrake to hold the car steady, right foot only on the gas, increase the revs and relase the clutch and handbrake in a fuild movement ?
If your answer is (a) you just failed your driving test in most European countries
Perhaps if you guys (and girls) had been taught how to drive in Europe you would find this thread as amusing as I do
This is not meant to be confrontational or hostile, but really, some of the 'old wives tales' and misinformations in this thread is pretty funny.
'All corners should be taken in 2nd'
Yeah right - that 60mph corner I take every morning (at ~60mph - the speed limit) really does not need to be taken in 2nd - 4th or 5th is appropriate. You use the gearbox to put yourself in the appropriate ratio at all times, it's called BASIC CAR CONTROL
Concern over wearing out the release bearing ?
WTF ? The vast majority of clutch 'failures' are friction material related. Most of those are down to high mileage, poor adjustment or
'riding the clutch'. I have no stats on it, but honestly, sitting at the lights with your foot on the clutch has more advantages than a potential isssue with the release bearing wearing.
Maybe you will take the life of that part down from 200K miles to a mere 199K miles - personally I doubt that I will own my mini at that point, but if I do, well I suspect that I will have swapped the clutch and the release bearing before then.
If the wait at the lights is going to be a while, can I suggest that you take it out of gear, and stick the handbrake on ?
Actually that brings up another point, all you manual drivers, when you are at the lights, how exactly do you pull away from a stop ? do you
a) keep your foot on the brake, gas it (side/heel) and release the clutch while transferign your right foot over to the gass pedal completly ?
b) Use the handbrake to hold the car steady, right foot only on the gas, increase the revs and relase the clutch and handbrake in a fuild movement ?
If your answer is (a) you just failed your driving test in most European countries
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: PA/NJ
I've been driving manuals for about 20 years... and have never used it. I don't roll back even on the steepest hills (anyone familiar with The Wall in Philly?). If using the handbrake is "required" in Europe, I just lost a lot respect for them. 
Maybe it's because I partially learned to drive stick in a truck that didn't have a hand brake. The parking brake was foot-actuated and releasing it required leaning down and removing your left hand from the wheel... The parking brake in most trucks (even modern ones) is not designed to be used while the truck is actually being driven.
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Texas
Hmmmm, I always use the hand brake when starting from a stop on even a slight incline. My son tells me I'm a "woosie", but I don't want to burn out the clutch. Actually, it's as easy as dancin once a person gets the hang of it. I never roll back even a sixteenth of an inch. The hardest thing I had to learn to drive was a big truck on the farm that we used to haul grain. Had to double clutch that sucker. It was a beast from hell. 
Actually, it's as easy as dancin once a person gets the hang of it. I never roll back even a sixteenth of an inch. The hardest thing I had to learn to drive was a big truck on the farm that we used to haul grain. Had to double clutch that sucker. It was a beast from hell.
Reverse Gear
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IanF,
The issue is one of control - again - The method that is taught is something like this - borrowed from '2pass.co.uk'
Now, if you want to hold the car on the brake, and some-how heal-and-toe it, or slip the clutch and 'hold it ont he clutch' thats up to you.
Interestingly, the same site derides sequential gear changing, that I personaly favor...
read more here - http://www.2pass.co.uk/
The issue is one of control - again - The method that is taught is something like this - borrowed from '2pass.co.uk'
When you can move off safely and smoothly on a level road, the next stage is to move off on a hill. The examiner on the driving test will expect you to:- Move off safely and under control on a gradient
Use the MSM routine
Check your blindspot for traffic and pedestrians
Make balanced use of the accelerator, clutch, brakes and steering
Use the appropriate gear
Avoid rolling back
Moving off on a gradient demands good co-ordination of the gas pedal, clutch and handbrake, for the obvious reasons that without it you will roll backwards and you will fail your practical test.
The normal routine for moving off away from the kerb applies, mirrors-signal-manoeuvre
Select first gear, bring the clutch to the 'biting point' and apply higher-than-usual revs. Check your mirrors, make sure too, that there are no pedestrians about to cross the road immediately behind your car , check over your right shoulder then if a signal is needed then give it. If it is safe to move off, release the handbrake and let the clutch bite a little more - enough to get the car rolling forward, but not enough to cause the car to jerk. Give a bit more gas as the car moves off, letting the clutch come right up as the car gathers speed.
Remember that it will be harder for the engine to overcome an extra load up the hill (like when you ride a cycle up a hill, you have to pedal a lot harder). Therefore, you must build up more momentum than usual in first gear before changing, and be sure not to fumble selection, otherwise all momentum will be lost.
Lastly if you signalled check that the indicator has cancelled, then drive the car normally and engage higher gears when required.
Use the MSM routine
Check your blindspot for traffic and pedestrians
Make balanced use of the accelerator, clutch, brakes and steering
Use the appropriate gear
Avoid rolling back
Moving off on a gradient demands good co-ordination of the gas pedal, clutch and handbrake, for the obvious reasons that without it you will roll backwards and you will fail your practical test.
The normal routine for moving off away from the kerb applies, mirrors-signal-manoeuvre
Select first gear, bring the clutch to the 'biting point' and apply higher-than-usual revs. Check your mirrors, make sure too, that there are no pedestrians about to cross the road immediately behind your car , check over your right shoulder then if a signal is needed then give it. If it is safe to move off, release the handbrake and let the clutch bite a little more - enough to get the car rolling forward, but not enough to cause the car to jerk. Give a bit more gas as the car moves off, letting the clutch come right up as the car gathers speed.Remember that it will be harder for the engine to overcome an extra load up the hill (like when you ride a cycle up a hill, you have to pedal a lot harder). Therefore, you must build up more momentum than usual in first gear before changing, and be sure not to fumble selection, otherwise all momentum will be lost.
Lastly if you signalled check that the indicator has cancelled, then drive the car normally and engage higher gears when required.
Interestingly, the same site derides sequential gear changing, that I personaly favor...
About Block Gear Changes
Some drivers have a habit of always changing through the gears one-by-one (1,2,3,4,5 - 5,4,3,2,1). This habit has stuck with some older drivers from when they originally learned to drive many years ago.
Today, in a normal car and for everyday on-road driving, it is not generally good practice to use the gears in this way. We can change down the gears in blocks ( 5th to 2nd or 4th to 2nd. etc)
Over the years, motor car design and engineering has improved. Compared with cars of even ten years ago, modern cars are lighter, more powerful and more aerodynamic. These changes mean that the driving method that was essential in older cars is no longer needed in modern driving.
It is not necessary to change gears in sequence. For example: If you are driving along at 50 mph in 5th gear, and you want to turn left into a side road, you may be able to do so without having to stop. As you approach the junction you need to reduce your speed ( using your brake) until you are going slowly enough to take the junction safely. When you have slowed down to a safe speed using the brakes, you have to select a gear that will drive the car comfortably at that speed. In most cars the best gear for the job will be 2nd. So, move the gear lever directly to the second gear position skipping the other gears.
The benefits of this style of driving include better fuel economy, less overall wear and tear, less driver fatigue on long journeys and more steering control in emergencies.
Some drivers have a habit of always changing through the gears one-by-one (1,2,3,4,5 - 5,4,3,2,1). This habit has stuck with some older drivers from when they originally learned to drive many years ago.
Today, in a normal car and for everyday on-road driving, it is not generally good practice to use the gears in this way. We can change down the gears in blocks ( 5th to 2nd or 4th to 2nd. etc)
Over the years, motor car design and engineering has improved. Compared with cars of even ten years ago, modern cars are lighter, more powerful and more aerodynamic. These changes mean that the driving method that was essential in older cars is no longer needed in modern driving.
It is not necessary to change gears in sequence. For example: If you are driving along at 50 mph in 5th gear, and you want to turn left into a side road, you may be able to do so without having to stop. As you approach the junction you need to reduce your speed ( using your brake) until you are going slowly enough to take the junction safely. When you have slowed down to a safe speed using the brakes, you have to select a gear that will drive the car comfortably at that speed. In most cars the best gear for the job will be 2nd. So, move the gear lever directly to the second gear position skipping the other gears.
The benefits of this style of driving include better fuel economy, less overall wear and tear, less driver fatigue on long journeys and more steering control in emergencies.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Overthemountain, AL
is that you learned to do it on the wrong side of the street
Reverse Gear
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe <---- Europe
Of the ~700 Million people in Europe, less than 10% of them drive on the right
But yeah, I learned to drive in the UK, where they do drive on the left....
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2006
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From: Texas
Shucks. In Texas we drive in any lane on the interstates we want to irregardless of the speed we pick. 
Sometimes we even turn left from the far right-hand lane. Just can't take us fer granted doncha know.
Sometimes we even turn left from the far right-hand lane. Just can't take us fer granted doncha know.
6th Gear
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Overthemountain, AL
Erm, no, what is really amuzing is that you guys think that Europe drive on a different side of the road, when it is only the UK and Ireland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe <---- Europe
Of the ~700 Million people in Europe, less than 10% of them drive on the right
But yeah, I learned to drive in the UK, where they do drive on the left....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europe <---- Europe
Of the ~700 Million people in Europe, less than 10% of them drive on the right
But yeah, I learned to drive in the UK, where they do drive on the left....
Reverse Gear
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Erm, last I checked, the UK (United Kingdom) was in Europe
I learned to drive in the UK, therefore I learned to drive in Europe.
The point I was trying to make - and obviously failing - was that in Europe (which, remember includes the UK) driving a car with manual transmission is the norm, rather than something which is considered unusual/strange.
Again, in Europe, you are not allowed out on the road unaccompanied by a qualified driver / instructor in a vehicle for which you have not passed a test.
The majority of European countries consider that there is such a vast difference in the skills required to drive a manual vs an auto, that you are required to pass a test to drive a manual unaccompanied (ie for any reason other than lessons / practice) even if you hold a licence for an automatic.
If you drive a manual, you do not need to pass a test for an auto - they are considered to be simple to adapt to and require way less skill to drive.
The site I linked to gave a few pointers and I thought it might be useful.
I learned to drive in the UK, therefore I learned to drive in Europe.
The point I was trying to make - and obviously failing - was that in Europe (which, remember includes the UK) driving a car with manual transmission is the norm, rather than something which is considered unusual/strange.
Again, in Europe, you are not allowed out on the road unaccompanied by a qualified driver / instructor in a vehicle for which you have not passed a test.
The majority of European countries consider that there is such a vast difference in the skills required to drive a manual vs an auto, that you are required to pass a test to drive a manual unaccompanied (ie for any reason other than lessons / practice) even if you hold a licence for an automatic.
If you drive a manual, you do not need to pass a test for an auto - they are considered to be simple to adapt to and require way less skill to drive.
The site I linked to gave a few pointers and I thought it might be useful.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
Likes: 1
From: Wappingers Falls, NY
The whole "Europeans are better drivers" thing is overblown. I've had enough buddies from over there to witness Germans and Brits doing stupid things behind the wheel.
Everyone knows Euro's are no-talent-@$$ clowns They can't even imitate our sweet American stunts properly:
Man injured after launching firework from bottom
Haha. Just kidding of course. There are good and bad drivers everywhere. And people that suck at stupid stunts everywhere
Everyone knows Euro's are no-talent-@$$ clowns
They can't even imitate our sweet American stunts properly:Man injured after launching firework from bottom
Haha. Just kidding of course. There are good and bad drivers everywhere. And people that suck at stupid stunts everywhere
4th Gear
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 319
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From: Hillsboro, OR
This is actually a bad idea. It's like not wearing your seat belt because you are only going a few miles. For DSC, it does more then just keep you in control when you loose traction on poor surfaces. It also keeps you in control during emergency maneuvers (such as really fast lane changes). There are plenty of videos out there that show how a DSC system will prevent the car from skidding out of control on dry pavement during emergency situations.
As for the throw-out bearing, the newer ones on self adjusting clutches are different then the older ones. They should last just as long even if engaged while sitting at a stop light. However, I personally still put the car in neutral at a red light so I can rest my foot.
As for the throw-out bearing, the newer ones on self adjusting clutches are different then the older ones. They should last just as long even if engaged while sitting at a stop light. However, I personally still put the car in neutral at a red light so I can rest my foot.
1st Gear
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34
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From: Morristown, NJ
Where did everyone learn to drive stick? I learned in Singapore! driver on the right side, stick in left hand, driving on the left side of the road - just like in the UK which is part of Europe. I think all countries that were once part of the "British Empire" still drive on "the wrong side"
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Chicago.. yes, Chicago
A lot of good points and some interesting reading Since you're driving an MCS, you have so much power under the hood. Coming off a green light should not be a problem once you figure out when to shift. Practice, pratice, practice
In a way... I kind of agree with this... If you can drive manual, auto is easy. You're forced to concentrate on what you're doing driving manual.
I had a friend whose parents would ONLY let them take the Driving portion of the license test in their old diesel VW Rabbit. Not easy when you're 16 and taking the test for the first time ... but I think it really makes you a better driver... learning to drive manual first.
Since you're driving an MCS, you have so much power under the hood. Coming off a green light should not be a problem once you figure out when to shift. Practice, pratice, practice I had a friend whose parents would ONLY let them take the Driving portion of the license test in their old diesel VW Rabbit. Not easy when you're 16 and taking the test for the first time ... but I think it really makes you a better driver... learning to drive manual first.
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: PA/NJ
I'm sorry, but I still fail to see how using the hand brake gives you more control. The entire process sounds cumbersome especially since it's unnecessary.
Reverse Gear
Joined: Sep 2006
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Again, its about control, 'your' method of transitioning from a dead stop on a hill, to driving up it, requires that you prevent the car from rolling backwards, by using the foot brake, while also releasing the clutch and pressing the gas pedal.
I think that many of us can do it, but to expect a new driver to master this is unreasonable.
Try it sometime, you may find it an interestingly easy alternative to the three-pedal / two foot shuffle.
Obviously if you have three feet this method is probably not that useful to you
The method describes relies on the hand brake holding the car on the hill, allowing you to raise the revs (without a pedal dance), and release the clutch to the biting point, as you feel the car pulling against the resistance of the hand brake, you release it (smoothly) and pull away.
http://www.standardshift.com/forum/
All you need to know.
I heel-toe all the time, even when it isn't necessary because I'm pretty good now and it sounds cool~
Whenever you are shifting, street, track, autocross, whatever, think "Smooth is fast".
All you need to know.I heel-toe all the time, even when it isn't necessary because I'm pretty good now and it sounds cool~
Whenever you are shifting, street, track, autocross, whatever, think "Smooth is fast".