I was snooping around one of the SoCal Mini dealers last week, checking out a few things so that I could decide whether it'd be a '06 or '07 MCS to replace my '04 MCS. Having read every article and looked at just about every photo of the R56, I'd decided it was time to make up my mind.

In talking to the sales manager about the R56, he was very frank about his concerns about the MINI's future going forward. While he had little doubt that the new car would sell well, he (having attended a recent conference of sales managers in the western U.S.) and the other managers were all pretty certain that the enthusiast crowd would be alienated by the new car. Too refined, too soft, lost its quirkiness, lost its razor handling, was their assessment.

In short, they knew they'd grabbed the enthusiast folks with the '02-'06, but were predicting they'd lose that core with the '07 onwards as the brand switched its focus to the mainstream population, whose expectations of a small car are vastly different than that of the hardcore enthusiast. He even referenced the introduction of the MCSa as having taken away part of the car's mystique. His exact words were, "with every step BMW takes to make the car more accessible, the MINI loses part of its soul."

For a business looking to make profit, I suppose it's a reasonable strategy to expect BMW to try to extend the car's appeal. The enthusiast crowd is only so large.

But, of course, I ordered an '06. Just made it into their final allotment.

 

I agree with him and I am certainly not a "hardcore" enthusiast or a Classic Mini lover. But the main thing lacking on the R56 IS the "soul" ... the car feels and looks "engineered" too much and searching for an identity.

I mean, they sold the current gen by the bucketload with all its quirks and alleged problems and the sales were not letting up. So I am really not sure where they were going with the new look/feel?

Aside from pedestrian safety regulations and cost cutting ... some of the choices in the design are questionable at best.

 

Don't worry. As soon as he can't sell any more '06s, his tune will change!

 

He needed to sell and 06 and he sold one.

 

Actually, no he didn't. He was fully aware that I had no plans to buy from him, given that I refuse to pay any SoCal markup. I ordered it from a different dealer (across the country, in fact) who sells at MSRP.

Like I'd buy from a SoCal dealer...

 

Hey, South Bay was good and no mark-up, I'd buy from them again

 

I am without a doubt a "hardcore" enthusiast. I currently own a 04 MCS/JCW and I will soon be ordering a new 07 MCS. I know its different. Many of the changes appeal to me. I want a bit softer ride. I can certainly handle the improved gas mileage. The interior bits are cool.
So what's my point? even a "hardcore" enthusiast can be attracted to the R56. It's all a matter of opinion. Your dealer had one, I have a different one.
Who's right? We both are.
BTW, the 04 remains as a weekend car.

 

The way I see it, MINI can now capture the enthusiasts that knew they could do better than the first attempt, more non-enthusiasts and those still on board from round one. I don't know what to think of a sales manager that worries about a car improving on all points and thus loosing it's soul, and without ever driving one.

Why do we think quirky cars have more soul than refined ones? Fortunatly these thoughts will perish by taking one R56 pill. It's not the bad things that give cars soul, it's the unexpected good things. It stops and makes the corner when we didn't think it could (especially to current MINI owners). It rides like a large BMW. It drives PAST gas pumps. It doesn't break or go back to the dealer. That is SOUL!

My 73' VW had soul because it would run all day at max speed, low on oil and never broke or got stuck in places it should never have been. There was no soul in it's poor heating system, lack of A/C, bad paint and tendency to blow with the wind. Soul comes from the things that make your day, not those that mess it up.

Disclaimer: Individual experiences may vary. See your soul for full details. Not available on all models.

 

Definitely not my definition of soul

 

Yeah, but you probably like Bear Bryant and "the Crimson Tide" so what do you know?

Just kidding. I liked them too back then

 

We were intially going to wait until next summer to save some more cash; much to my wife's dismay. I tried talking her into the 2007. Lucky for both of us her current car died.

When we went to order our 06 MCS, the sales guy initially told us there were no more to be had. I basically told him we were going to another dealer for an 06, and there was no way we were slapping down $1k deposit for a 1st production car, or a car we hadn't seen or driven. He understood and made similar comments and then he got us our 2006.

I'm sure the 07's will have their advantages but I'm glad we're getting an 06.

 

As soon as the new car starts beating the old car at autocrosses, people will stop worrying. When several show up at MOTD already modified and fast, people will stop worrying. It will happen.

It is lighter, faster, and from most of what I've read, handles better.

I personally think the interior is incredible looking, and I like the honeycomb grills as standard.

I've decided to hold off ordering on '06. I'll take a good long look at the '07's, and if something about them doesn't appeal to me, I'll just get a good deal on a slightly used '05 or '06 and be happy.

 

Oh boy Grimace, I'm not sure you know what kind of debate you just opened up. It's been going on for months now with many a passionate arguments. Of course the statements from the sales manager are just one person's opinion. Valid or not, I'm not entirely sure. I have maintained all along that we can speculate all we want but until each of us is able to see and drive the R56, it may be pointless to make too many assertions. That being said, it seems like the R56 has received some very positive reviews from the automotive press and it's design is growing on me (especially the JCW!).

However, I understand where this guy is coming from. I've seen the same thing in the Volvo community. As Volvo has expanded its product line and broadened its appeal, some true Volvo enthusiasts are disappointed. Even though the new models are better in every way, the quirkiness and uniqueness of Volvos has been lost. I think some people are afraid that this will happen to MINI as it becomes more "common." However, I still think enthusiasts will be plenty satisfied once they get behind the wheel of the R56. To go back to the Volvo comparison, a classic Volvo "enthusiast" will complain about the new models all he wants but once he gets behind the wheel of an S60R, those complaints are left in the dust.

 

Actually, if you read it closely, it wasn't just his opinion he was relating. He was expressing the opinions of those at his conference as well. I just found it interesting that some of the people who sell MINIs for a living, had a particular opinion about the R56. I went into the dealer rather ambivalent about the issue, I can see that's not the case here, you're right about that clarkdr81!

As for what soul is, ummm, that's the first I've ever heard of a refined car having it. Sounds like people are redefining "soul" just so that they don't get left out. It's kinda like rhthym... it's really okay if you don't have it. These things happen.

I wasn't even aware that many cars made after 1968 had much soul. Guess that dated myself. I know there's a few out there, but the list isn't very long.

 

I can't even imagine how heated such similar debates must get regarding versions of the 911. This MINI stuff is probably child's play compared to what that community goes through.

 

The thing that is the most frustrating about the R53/R56 debate is that those who are on the waiting list for the R56s feel like the R50/53 lovers don't want us to be part of their club.

Will the R56 owners be considered outsiders or included in the fold?

 

Actually, I don't think its as bad as you might think. While the die-hard air-cooled purists aren't happy, that's life ... move on.

The bigger arguments stem around:

1. Bloat. Has the car become a GT and not a sports car anymore?
2. Younger siblings ... fear the mid-engined cars handle better and we can't have that happening for the Premier car in the lineup.

 

Stuttgart killed the car once they introduced the liquid cooled flat 6.....

But seriously.. I think the best description I've read (and can't recall where to give credit for it) the R56 is like the 2nd generation CRX. A great car by all accounts, wonderful on it's own, but lacks the certain x-factor from the original. A factor (or in MINI's case soul) that would not have been missed if the 1st generation wasn't there.

I have no intention of leaving my MCS, and if anything happened to it, I'd buy used MCS over the R56.. but that's me.

 

I may prefer the 1st generation but you will still be a part of the community if you own a 2nd gen. To me Mini enthusiasts come together because of their frame of mind more than the actual car itself. Eventually most of us will own a 2nd generation Mini (damn those Europeans & their pedestrian safety issues )

 

I don't R56 owners will have much to worry about as far as that is concerned. The only division among MINI owners is those who are enthusiasts (ie. wave) and those that aren't (ie. don't wave). That division won't be affected at all by the R56, it will be enthusiasts and non-enthusiasts just like it is now. R50/53 and R56 owners will get along just fine.

 

Wow. Only slightly overdramtic. It is California I guess.
Did he then go into a monologue about how all Mini owners must amass and fight the power of the Dark Side... young Jedi?

Really. Did he test drive one? Has he even sat in one? Let's leave all this melodrama on the shelf and just wait until we can actually drive them. I'm sure there will still be a rift, but at least the '07 Mini owners will be able to give actual first hand experience as to why they think the r56 is better.

 

Yes, it is California. Drama or not, I guess we don't get as wound up as you are. I think you need a trip to Disneyland to put a smile on your face! Just reporting on what the guy said, ain't no big thang. I'm sorry for your sake that he and I had a conversation, and that I related it here. You could always skip reading such threads, right?

And bad news for you, because he did drive it. All the sales managers did at the conference. I confirmed this with two other dealerships. The R56 has even been spotted on the road here in SoCal. Those were their opinions. Others will differ. It's all Mini to me, classic, '02-'06, '07 and beyond. Does seem to be a pretty tense issue though.

 

Said before and I'll say it again.

Unbelievably happy I went with the R53; but they did all the right things to keep the brand alive.


That remains to be seen. This is a far more serious (and will grow to be heated, I think its still on the cooling padl just wait until these things come out in the US)


I actually think the dealer hit it pretty darn close, they are in effect cutting off a good chuck of their enthusiast core. Certainly there will be those who don't care, but there are also those who will/have be/been alienated because of the preference of engine, styling, character.

 

what i was thinking

 

I've been through this before. When BMW changed the three series from the E30 to the E36, people thought it was the end of the world. As it turned out, the E36 was every bit the enthusiast car as the E30, and it was faster in addition.

When the E46 came out, more hand wringing. Same with the E90, which is now out.

This new MINI will be faster, and it will handle better, and enthusiasts will love it. BMW is too good to mess that up.

Now, if just the THOUGHT that it is possible to order one with a softer suspension makes you upset, then you'll have a problem. But the car will be available for the enthusiast.