I think we are all aware of this ... however, I still fail to see how MINI will sell more cars with the same amount of dealerships in place, and very inconveniently located from Average Joe's home.

I also noticed, even without seeing a price sheet of all the options, that all the "nice" things that make the car more desireable will be expensive ad-ons. For God's sake, there isn't even a stock set of wheels that look appealing this time around.

And these, "cater to everyone" interior options ... from Joey disco interior accent lighting to more upscale leather and colors for the "classier" driver ... they missed no one.

I agree the car needed to be changed to keep things moving along and not let it be stale ... but ... there is this big BUT

 

I did say I think that BMW did what they had to do to keep the brand alive.

 

On the dealership issue. Agreed. They will never sell 100K units a year with the current dealerships. The mainstream public will not stand for dealers 100 miles away. I hated 45 miles away.

As to options ... There is two ways to look at that.

First, desirable or a luxary? Some ppl think a LSD is important. Others think a GPS is important. What do you want for 22K anyway? The average car sold in America costs about $28K. The average MINI (I read somewhere) around $25K. For the MONEY ... IMHO you get a hell of a deal.

Second, don't think that is different in most any car for what you might consider an important option. For example, I can tell you that Xenons are NOT standard on anything but the most expensive 997s. You would imagine if your dumping $80K on a car you'd get Xenons standard. My only point is that this is no different anyway ... another way to get your money.

Yep

 

I see no good reason why enthusiasts (whatever that is) would feel compelled to reject R56 outright. There's just not that much to hate. Now if we've talking preferences...and likes...sure, that makes perfect sense. The Miata analogy (mentioned earlier) seems fairly accurate to me. There is a fork in the road here (of sorts)...some will go down one road, some another, some both. Let's have this discussion in a year or two when there's lots more R56-owning MINI enthusiasts out there...things'll look a lot different then.

 

personaly i would not choose to by the first year of any remake or new model. I would not have purchased a mini if i could not have gotten a brand new 06, ... Nothing against the details or engine change it is just not a good idea to be the one who finds the bugs and helps refine the details of a model that has little customer/mechanic feed back.

Just my opinion,

soul to me is knowing your car and feeling like it is driving with you, and urging you on... it makes you smile just thinking of your car....again my opinion

 

I agree...soul is a hard thing to pin down person to person, but we all know it when we see it, ...and it's a great thing. Seems to me many of those taking R56 out for a spin recently in Spain came out of it w/ a big grin...for many different reasons, yes...but the driveability of R56 seems overwhelmingly to be the clincher of the deal. That's a very good sign. For those warm (and warming up) to R56, I think the perception is that the soul of this car is all MINI and the transition is a bit of a "no-brainer". Others may not feel this way (now or ever), and I can understand that, too. Again, it's that personal thing.

 

Still looks different to me...not that there's anything wrong with that...



...are they here yet?

 

tick..........tock...........tick............tock. ............tick..............tock

 

I'm not quite sure what some are trying to say in defining what soul means to them in a car. To me it's the connection you feel with the car and all of it's moving parts in how it all comes together, or the driving experience.

 

I just wanna know when the traveler will be out, I need to get my wife out of the 960 Volvo she loves and get her to stop borrowing my new 06 CR-MCS to go to the store.

 

oh, don't get me wrong I still think the MINI is a hella deal. and when I mean "options" this time around ... its ones to make the car look better not performance ones. Like I mentioned, there don't even seem to be great looking stock wheels this time around. Or how the whole center console looks crap ... but with the Nav/idrive it suddenly looks great ... then we go to the seating options ... etc. ... oh yeah, and the Aerokit now all of a sudden looks like a "must" as well ...

you know what I am getting at? ... expensive add-on options that make this new clunkier looking version all of a sudden better looking ...

the R53 looks great even with bare bones trim

personally, I only have a problem with the look of the car ... of course I have not driven it, but knowing BMW, I am pretty confident it will not dissapoint ... but looks wise, its a mish-mosh of way too many personalities.

 

The rumor says not until 2008....

 

YIKES!!!!! You, sir, are in desperate need!!!!

 

I will share my opinion...this is a forum after all. This discussion reminds me of a recent watch purchase I made. The choice was between an automatic movement and a quartz omega and this might touch on the topic of "soul" as well. First of all, I think having soul involves a combination of driver-car compatibility as well as features of the car independent of the driver. To continue with my watch analogy, I for one think an automatic has more soul than a quartz. Sure, the quartz is more accurate, more precise, has more features and continues to move even when not worn. The automatic is less accurate, oftentimes more basic looking, stops when not worn...you get the point. I would take the automatic movement anytime despite these differences. I would definitely respect other people's choice of the quatz...it's just not for me. I realize that cars have a lot more in them than watches but this is a qualitative opinion after all. I like having a primarily analog speedo (the new one actually looks like a quartz watch display ), I like it when the headlights go up with the bonnet, I like that I have to turn a key to start the car, etc. etc. etc. Just thinking out loud here...can't really think of a nice way to end this post (now that I think about it, I even think that the classic Mini has more "soul" than mine does for the reasons I outlined).

 

I agree. When a car sucks you in so your mind, emotions, attentions are engaged in it's combined mechanical workings...this is a kind of "soul" thing. Issigonis didn't even want radios in his Minis!!!

I will say that because R56 has yet to be driven by most of us, this "soulful" quality is hard to precisely gauge, but still fairly easy to predict, given our experiences w/ MINIs. It will be a very personal thing.

To me, even though (with my MINI) I obsessed endlessly over toggles (and lack thereof), and colors, and options...it was in the end the actual driving experience (not just the accessories) that really pulled me in. This level of feedback/connection/interactivity/engagement (read fun!!) is, to me, what the Mini (past, present, and future) is all about. And there may not be one strict interpretation of this, which is probably a good thing. Based on everything I've read, the R56 MINI definitely has power to intrigue, amuse, and enthrall the more one motors in it. I think we should give the BMW engineers and designers a bit of credit. Once R56 is out on the roads for awhile, I think we will.

 

Clearly you do care! You keep reading the thread (well, sort of, you still don't get that I was relating the opinions of someone else, but I see that you're trying your best), and you keep posting. So, yup... it's that simple. You do care. But I'm ready for your next wave of crippling logic on the heels of "retarded" and "stupid."

 

Got it.

You see, thats just a personal opinion/taste. Everybody likes different things. So to you ... you feel you have to add things to make it look better.

To others, adding all that bling detracts from the car

To each their own ... we are all different. and that's what makes a good ball game

 

Thread crapping in your own thread. Shut it already...

 

Here I do express concern, I'm worried that the Traveler will look like a bloated version of the R56 Cooper & Cooper S, if looking at any of the recent spy pics is anything to go by. I thought the concept was very nice to look at, here's hoping so will the production version. I've also heard rumors of a five-door??? Yikes!!!

 

You're in over your head, dood. Give it up.

 

Please....

 

These things are a always such a mind-bender for me. Over time, and w/ some research, I'm generally able to come around, but it does take some stretching. At a minimum, I can learn to appreciate/see what other may like (even though I do not) and I can live w/ that. However, given enough study, by the time I do develop a level of enthusiasm of my own I've already crossed pretty much into nerd territory. Oh well. When it comes to the R55 Clubman, I have my friend's classic Clubman for inspiration.

 

True, but Volvo is not doing anything to replace the S60R. The C70 is an under-powered poseur in comparison to the upcoming 335i Cabriolet. Heck, even the VW EOS 3.2 that is about to be produced is superior to the C70 (and costs less....)

The point of my post is that the challenge for BMW/MINI is to broaden the appeal of the new car while managing to not turn off the current owners. The current owners are really an investment in the future - their current cars will not last forever and when they wear out, you want to have something that they will want to buy. Volvo/Ford on the other hand is taking the position that we will build what we want to build and if the current owners don't like what we build, oh well. Maybe there is a reason why Ford lost $5.8 billion this past quarter????

 

Just read through this thread and I am amazed that anyone can say the R56 has less soul or is not for the performance oirented enthusiast. Everything I have read says it is more powerful, faster, handles better and is the same weight as the current car. In what way is it less performance oriented? If BMW has managed to make a car handle better with marginally softer suspension then well done! If, like me, you like really stiff suspension, then change the springs (I will). I true enthusiast will not keep the car stock so the question is what can the car be made into? I am confident it has more potential than the current car. As for the more subjective aspects of "soul", how can anyone tell without driving the car?

 

I think Volvo and Mini are two different markets. I see lots of Volvo's in my area and not many MINI's.

The average soccer mom in her V 70 is quite happy.