Suspension What is the way to maximize the handling chracteristic w/out Coils or Struts+Springs?
What is the way to maximize the handling chracteristic w/out Coils or Struts+Springs?
Just like the title!
What is the best way to maximize the handling characteristis w/out Coils or Struts+Springs?
I have thought about going Coils in the future but figured that is over-kill for me since my car is DD for me, and probably never see a track day.
I only have Hsport 22mm Rear sway currently and would like to figure out what I should add to it to maximize and get more from the stock SS+ suspension. thanks in advance!
What is the best way to maximize the handling characteristis w/out Coils or Struts+Springs?
I have thought about going Coils in the future but figured that is over-kill for me since my car is DD for me, and probably never see a track day.
I only have Hsport 22mm Rear sway currently and would like to figure out what I should add to it to maximize and get more from the stock SS+ suspension. thanks in advance!
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 5
From: Burlington, VT
Originally Posted by scobib
Camber plates, adjustable control arms, adjustable swaybar endlinks to remove all preload and a good alignment...
end of thread
Ummm... well... maybe add in light wheels and sticky tires.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
Lighter exhaust system, remove all the seats and just keep 1 lightweight Sparco, lighter battery, lower frame brace or USS, driving lessons, if you're overweight - lose weight( I fit here rather well ), wider lower profile tires, lighter rotors
That's all I can think of.
That's all I can think of.
5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
Likes: 1
From: Wappingers Falls, NY
Originally Posted by sprp85
Just like the title!
What is the best way to maximize the handling characteristis w/out Coils or Struts+Springs?
I have thought about going Coils in the future but figured that is over-kill for me since my car is DD for me, and probably never see a track day.
I only have Hsport 22mm Rear sway currently and would like to figure out what I should add to it to maximize and get more from the stock SS+ suspension. thanks in advance!
What is the best way to maximize the handling characteristis w/out Coils or Struts+Springs?
I have thought about going Coils in the future but figured that is over-kill for me since my car is DD for me, and probably never see a track day.
I only have Hsport 22mm Rear sway currently and would like to figure out what I should add to it to maximize and get more from the stock SS+ suspension. thanks in advance!
I'd say for a non-autocrossed or tracked daily driver Mini, I'd simply do:
1) Better tires
2) maybe dampers (bilstein or koni fsd)
3) maybe rear swaybar
4) maybe ireland fixed camber plates
For a dialy driver, I wouldn't even do an aggressive alignment. It'll just make it twitchy and kill your tires.
That's my 2 cents.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 5
From: Burlington, VT
Originally Posted by satay-ayam
Personally, I think that you're getting responses that are majorly overkill for the question you posed.
I'd say for a non-autocrossed or tracked daily driver Mini, I'd simply do:
1) Better tires
I'd say for a non-autocrossed or tracked daily driver Mini, I'd simply do:
1) Better tires
2) maybe dampers (bilstein or koni fsd)
3) maybe rear swaybar
Man, my reading comprehension is going downhill fast. The original poster already has a rear swaybar, so no need to add another one.
4) maybe ireland fixed camber plates
For a dialy driver, I wouldn't even do an aggressive alignment. It'll just make it twitchy and kill your tires.
I do agree that the "strip the interior" answer was a little extreme.
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5th Gear
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 667
Likes: 1
From: Wappingers Falls, NY
Originally Posted by snid
already listed
The original post said "w/out Coils or Struts+Springs" - so that's out, unless I misunderstood the "w/o struts+springs" and just struts is acceptable.
already listed - oops, my bad, it wasn't. I think scobib's intent was to give the suspension the adjustability it would need to get a "good" alignment, and that's about it. A good answer, to be sure. If you want to change the handling more drastically, a rear swaybar is cheap and effective.
Man, my reading comprehension is going downhill fast. The original poster already has a rear swaybar, so no need to add another one.
camber plates are also already listed.
While alignment was listed as an option, I don't think it specified "aggressive", just "good".
I do agree that the "strip the interior" answer was a little extreme.
The original post said "w/out Coils or Struts+Springs" - so that's out, unless I misunderstood the "w/o struts+springs" and just struts is acceptable.
already listed - oops, my bad, it wasn't. I think scobib's intent was to give the suspension the adjustability it would need to get a "good" alignment, and that's about it. A good answer, to be sure. If you want to change the handling more drastically, a rear swaybar is cheap and effective.
Man, my reading comprehension is going downhill fast. The original poster already has a rear swaybar, so no need to add another one.
camber plates are also already listed.
While alignment was listed as an option, I don't think it specified "aggressive", just "good".
I do agree that the "strip the interior" answer was a little extreme.
lol
Thank you all for your input!!
Seems pretty simple eh?? Lol!
So lighter the car is, better handling it will have??
I guess I willl look into plates and control arms.
since I already have lighter 17 inch with ET35, decent tires, lighter exhaust and sway.! Oh, losing weight..
Seems pretty simple eh?? Lol!
So lighter the car is, better handling it will have??
I guess I willl look into plates and control arms.
since I already have lighter 17 inch with ET35, decent tires, lighter exhaust and sway.! Oh, losing weight..
6th Gear
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 7
From: Pipe Creek, Texas
My car is heavier than it was to begin with but it handles better so the “lighter improves handling” would be an over simplistic axiom in my experience. The suggestion about improving driving skills is appropriate, practice, practice, practice; especially the scenario where you stay on throttle when your rear wants to step out because of the stiff rear sway bar you have.
Originally Posted by k-huevo
My car is heavier than it was to begin with but it handles better so the “lighter improves handling” would be an over simplistic axiom in my experience. The suggestion about improving driving skills is appropriate, practice, practice, practice; especially the scenario where you stay on throttle when your rear wants to step out because of the stiff rear sway bar you have.
About 2 360-turns until I stopped right next to guard rail and ditch.
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
Originally Posted by k-huevo
My car is heavier than it was to begin with but it handles better so the “lighter improves handling” would be an over simplistic axiom in my experience. The suggestion about improving driving skills is appropriate, practice, practice, practice; especially the scenario where you stay on throttle when your rear wants to step out because of the stiff rear sway bar you have.
Every mod listed is a simplistic axiom viewed in that context.
In reality though my addition was just my typical tongue in cheek response. It was simply to indicate the extent of effort that can be made to achieve the questioned goal.
There was no definition of an end point to the original question so anything that improves handling within the posters guidelines is equally valid.
Obviously not of the same weighted value but valid just the same.
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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Camber kit up front, a good set of tires - and, go to a track a few times a year. You can always improve you and bring your experience to any car.
Up to 2 degrees neg camber have not accelerated tire wear in 16,000 miles. toe is a hair 'in'. Toe will rip tires apart on the highway - they're essentially dragged along the road.
Up to 2 degrees neg camber have not accelerated tire wear in 16,000 miles. toe is a hair 'in'. Toe will rip tires apart on the highway - they're essentially dragged along the road.
Originally Posted by meb
Camber kit up front, a good set of tires - and, go to a track a few times a year. You can always improve you and bring your experience to any car.
Up to 2 degrees neg camber have not accelerated tire wear in 16,000 miles. toe is a hair 'in'. Toe will rip tires apart on the highway - they're essentially dragged along the road.
Up to 2 degrees neg camber have not accelerated tire wear in 16,000 miles. toe is a hair 'in'. Toe will rip tires apart on the highway - they're essentially dragged along the road.
What kind of effect I should look forward to see with negative cambers up front? Thanks!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
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No need unless you simply want to firm up the bushings a little...possibly not worth the effort for a non-lowered car.
2 degrees neg camber up front...the front end will simply bite better. You may find, like most, that you can back off the rear bar setting bit.
When I wrote "...drags tires along..." above, I was describing toe-out.
I may simply retain my JCW suspension on the new car, install the Webb bar and a camber kit and call it a day...not sure yet. But this is a simple way to go...as Kenchan would advise
2 degrees neg camber up front...the front end will simply bite better. You may find, like most, that you can back off the rear bar setting bit.
When I wrote "...drags tires along..." above, I was describing toe-out.
I may simply retain my JCW suspension on the new car, install the Webb bar and a camber kit and call it a day...not sure yet. But this is a simple way to go...as Kenchan would advise
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,021
Likes: 5
From: Burlington, VT
Originally Posted by meb
2 degrees neg camber up front...the front end will simply bite better. You may find, like most, that you can back off the rear bar setting bit.
At the advice of a recent BMWCCA instructor of mine, I stiffened up my rear swaybar. I've got -2.0° of camber up front, and changed my rear swaybar from the softest setting to the middle setting a few weeks ago at the track. And I didn't notice a huge difference. But, I'm still learning how to drive.
You'd think with 100,000 miles on my Cooper I'd have it figured out by now.But yes, it does make sense that you may want to back off the rear swaybar a bit after adding front camber.
5th Gear
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,081
Likes: 0
From: Texas
Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper
Go for the M7 USS first. It's a straight bolt on, you can do it at home, and it delivers amazing handling. I think you'll find you wont need all that camber /suspension stuff at all.
No way will the M7 USS provide anywhere near nor anything like camber plates+adjustable control arms+adjustable swaybar endlinks to remove all preload+a good alignment...
6th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,196
Likes: 0
From: Hampton, VA
Originally Posted by Dr. Pepper
Go for the M7 USS first. It's a straight bolt on, you can do it at home, and it delivers amazing handling. I think you'll find you wont need all that camber /suspension stuff at all.
Swing and a miss
My little dose of LITHIUM
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Albuquerque New Mexico
Oy Vey--let me just pile it on here. No way will an USS do anything like what others have been suggesting. *After* you've done all that other stuff, maybe you could gild the lily with a USS, but until then you're just throwing money away (throw in my direction, please...)
cheers,
cheers,
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