Since I had a tdi golf a few years ago I've become a big advocate of more torque and not so impressed with high hp numbers. So my question would be, is there a way of increasing tourque without blowing the engine(by blowing I mean turbo-ing or supercharging the engine)? Day to day driving, IMHO, requires low end torque. The Cooper is okay but more is nearly always better. Most torque increases I've seen with the different Cooper upgrades have been around 4500rpm and up. Not very pratical in traffic. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

Bore the block for a larger displacement?

R

 

Your Cooper will never feel like a TDI. Sorry to say, but most performance gains from bolt-ons on normally-aspirated engines help top end breathing, which increases horsepower but either reduces or keeps the same, low end torque. You may be able to put on a long intake with a small diameter, this should increase air velocity, helping torque but possibly at the expense of top-end power.

 

Andy is right. There just isn't a way to make the Cooper a stump puller.

If there were a "big bore" kit, that may help, but right now you would be doing some pioneering to get that. I'm certain that eventually that will be an option for Cooper owners, but at a pretty high cost.

Randy

 

Thanks for the replies. It's much as I suspected. Well I guess I'll just have to wait until nextyear to upgrade to the to the S. sigh.

 

The TDI's are quite amazing engines. Here a TDI with bigger injectors, cat-back, and exhaust both with and without a chip, as measured on a very conservative DynoDynamics dyno:

 

>>Thanks for the replies. It's much as I suspected. Well I guess I'll just have to wait until nextyear to upgrade to the to the S. sigh.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the S isn't dramatically different torque-wise at lower rpms, is it?

Andy, thanks for posting that TDI dyno. WOW.
_________________
2003 Cooper, Borla exhaust, Moss intake, Magnecor plug wires - Brookline, MA

 

Oops, forgot about the pulley mod. I guess that would really bump the S up above the Cooper torque-wise at low rpms.

 

I can relate! Two cars ago I was driving a much modified A-1 chassis GTI with gobs of low end torque & that wonderful close ratio 5-speed..sigh). I've driven many sports cars & quick sedans but that car had an insanely flat (and fat!) torque curve.
Right after Christmas my daily driver expired & I had to get wheels immediately, couldn't wait for an S, so I ended up in an MC. The MC is great fun but I've been looking for more torque too. I put a Viper intake on today & am looking forward to the results. While installing it, a new neighbor stopped by & said;"Wow, what a neat car. I'll bet it's fast. Aston Martin builds great cars". I did not correct him. ..
Am wondering what kind of power increase could be had by replacing the entire exhasut with a Mini-mania header + Helix or R/S exhaust on the MC? The London Stainless header is a work of art but I can't justify it at $1300.

 

Good questions about the exaust. I was thinking about getting the Viper myself. Let us know how you like it.

 

My daughter recently bought new jetta TDI (Turbo Diesel). So much torque down low, it is a real pleasure to drive. 50 mpg too! Still love thightness of my MCS (new this month). I sure wish MINI would put the TDI in it.

 

A stroker kit would defnitely fatten up the torque curve in lower RPM. This more of a "cost no object" idea, since you'd have to replace and custom-manufacture the entire bottom end!

Ryan and Randy, boring out the cylinders (and possibly higher diameter pistons) won't particularly help just the low-RPM torque. Doing a "bore" will help power across the whole RPM band Of course, with either mod serious changes to the intake, exhaust, and fuel delivery are needed (although much more drastic for the bore, since the displacement would be much greater).

Another expensive solution would be to change the transmission. One with shorter, closer spaced gears would multiply torque more than stock tranny, plus keep that torque delivery smoother than the relatively wide spacing of the stock 'box. On that note, you could also use a smaller diameter tire, although this will screw up your DSC and wheel-speed sensor.

As for realistic solutions, the throttle body is an idea, a different intake with longer runners, and a remapped ECU with focus on low RPM performance. With a NA 1.6L 4-in-line, it will be generally difficult to get any serious torque numbers, good luck!

Cheers,
Ryan

 

I think with the header and Helix exhaust, you should see gains of around 10 horsepower. That's an educated guess though, as I haven't had that set-up on the dyno.

As far as increasing displacement, you can bore or stroke or both. There is a 2.0 liter kit for the MINI in the UK, but it was made for the S. That would mean the compression is significantly less than the NA Cooper, so you would want to do different pistons. Big bucks.

Throttle body would be another of those gains that would just improve the entire RPM range, not necessarily the low end grunt. A different intake runner may help, but minimally.

As Ryephile stated, it will be tough to get much more out of the Cooper wihtout spending some serious cash.

 

how about the flowmaster

 

As far as MC exhausts and torque go, I'm leaning toward the RSpeed personally.

Here is their dyno. They tout the torque gains as opposed to the HP gains. It is reaonably priced at $495 and looks GREAT! (....just need some extra cash....)

 

And on top of that, how about the MINI Maddness exhaust manifold with High flow Cat!!!! Pricey but quality costs!

 

If you'd like more torque, install tires with a smaller diameter.


--
Cheese

 

Wainair,
Initially I thought I would purchase a G-tech to do some pre-Viper baseline tests but I just plain couldn't wait! I installed the Viper on Friday & ran up quite a few miles this weekend. The car is noticeably quicker, not only in the top end as expected, but also fairly low in the RPM range. There is a distinct improvement in throttle response as low as 2500RPM. Idle speed/smoothness have remained the same as stock. If the stated horsepower figures are correct, the dollar per horsepower isn't bad. I've seen from 8-12HP quoted & it certainly feels like at least 8HP extra to me. It also looks quite trick! Now it's time to look at exhausts!

 

Great! That was the first real performance mod I was thinking of doing. It's good to hear it's worked well for you. The Viper looks the best for keeping the intake air cold and I'm sure that will give it advantages over all the other intakes for the Cooper. And I agree, it does look quite trick! Thanks for the reply, I'm off to order mine now!

 

If one is even considering boring out the block, shouldn't a more aggressive crank also make its way into the picture? Sure you'd loose HP because your redline RPM would drop but if you are after low-end torque then it seems like the way to go.

Chuck