Wet sanding mistake
Wet sanding mistake
While trying to sand down a glob of paint on a rock chip on my hood with last step wet sanding paper I ended up with a bigger problem. All around the paint chip I created a dull scuff surounding the paint chip. I used Zano Z5 on the area and then some Z6 but with no results in getting out the scuff. I dare not try rubbing compound for fear of making it worse than it is. Any ideas on how to correct my mistake? I should have left it alone but for some reason I thought I could fix it(duhhhhhhhh)
. It's a very small area but I'm pretty **** about things like this and want to restore the shine on the scuff. HELP!
. It's a very small area but I'm pretty **** about things like this and want to restore the shine on the scuff. HELP!
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 10
You need an abrasive to fix this... The idea is to start with the least powerful abrasive you can use to get the bulk of the problem fixed.
In this case, your problem was a paint blob. You used wet sanding to eliminate this problem. As long as you are very, very careful, this is a good approach. But now you have eliminated problem #1 and created problem #2, the hazy area around the blob. Make sure that your 'blob' problem is fixed (the paint is flat) and then decide how to fix problem #2.
You go about fixing #2 the same way you went at #1: You find an abrasive that is just strong enough to fix the problem. This is probably a fine grade rubbing compound. The rubbing compound is less abrasive than your sandpaper. It too, however will leave a haze... just a finer haze as the abrasive particles are smaller. Now problems 1 and 2 are gone, but you are left with problem #3.
You solve #3 just like the first 2 problems and find a less abrasive tool like a swirl-mark remover. This will solve 95% of problem #3. A paint polish is the final step in removing the last bit of problem #3.
Now that all of the problems are solved, break out your Zaino and put a few coats of protection on your repaired surface.
Alternative solutions: You can fix most surface problems with Meguiars Scratch-X and a paint polish. One of my favorite set of products in the garage is a matched set of Sonus polishes and compounds... step 1, 2 and 3, all professionaly designed and matched to work out the worst of scratches. If you can afford to spend the $30 up front, it's a great set of products to have on the shelf.
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-410.html
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-420.html
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-430.html
In this case, your problem was a paint blob. You used wet sanding to eliminate this problem. As long as you are very, very careful, this is a good approach. But now you have eliminated problem #1 and created problem #2, the hazy area around the blob. Make sure that your 'blob' problem is fixed (the paint is flat) and then decide how to fix problem #2.
You go about fixing #2 the same way you went at #1: You find an abrasive that is just strong enough to fix the problem. This is probably a fine grade rubbing compound. The rubbing compound is less abrasive than your sandpaper. It too, however will leave a haze... just a finer haze as the abrasive particles are smaller. Now problems 1 and 2 are gone, but you are left with problem #3.
You solve #3 just like the first 2 problems and find a less abrasive tool like a swirl-mark remover. This will solve 95% of problem #3. A paint polish is the final step in removing the last bit of problem #3.
Now that all of the problems are solved, break out your Zaino and put a few coats of protection on your repaired surface.
Alternative solutions: You can fix most surface problems with Meguiars Scratch-X and a paint polish. One of my favorite set of products in the garage is a matched set of Sonus polishes and compounds... step 1, 2 and 3, all professionaly designed and matched to work out the worst of scratches. If you can afford to spend the $30 up front, it's a great set of products to have on the shelf.
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-410.html
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-420.html
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-430.html
Originally Posted by agranger
You need an abrasive to fix this... The idea is to start with the least powerful abrasive you can use to get the bulk of the problem fixed.
In this case, your problem was a paint blob. You used wet sanding to eliminate this problem. As long as you are very, very careful, this is a good approach. But now you have eliminated problem #1 and created problem #2, the hazy area around the blob. Make sure that your 'blob' problem is fixed (the paint is flat) and then decide how to fix problem #2.
You go about fixing #2 the same way you went at #1: You find an abrasive that is just strong enough to fix the problem. This is probably a fine grade rubbing compound. The rubbing compound is less abrasive than your sandpaper. It too, however will leave a haze... just a finer haze as the abrasive particles are smaller. Now problems 1 and 2 are gone, but you are left with problem #3.
You solve #3 just like the first 2 problems and find a less abrasive tool like a swirl-mark remover. This will solve 95% of problem #3. A paint polish is the final step in removing the last bit of problem #3.
Now that all of the problems are solved, break out your Zaino and put a few coats of protection on your repaired surface.
Alternative solutions: You can fix most surface problems with Meguiars Scratch-X and a paint polish. One of my favorite set of products in the garage is a matched set of Sonus polishes and compounds... step 1, 2 and 3, all professionaly designed and matched to work out the worst of scratches. If you can afford to spend the $30 up front, it's a great set of products to have on the shelf.
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-410.html
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-420.html
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-430.html
In this case, your problem was a paint blob. You used wet sanding to eliminate this problem. As long as you are very, very careful, this is a good approach. But now you have eliminated problem #1 and created problem #2, the hazy area around the blob. Make sure that your 'blob' problem is fixed (the paint is flat) and then decide how to fix problem #2.
You go about fixing #2 the same way you went at #1: You find an abrasive that is just strong enough to fix the problem. This is probably a fine grade rubbing compound. The rubbing compound is less abrasive than your sandpaper. It too, however will leave a haze... just a finer haze as the abrasive particles are smaller. Now problems 1 and 2 are gone, but you are left with problem #3.
You solve #3 just like the first 2 problems and find a less abrasive tool like a swirl-mark remover. This will solve 95% of problem #3. A paint polish is the final step in removing the last bit of problem #3.
Now that all of the problems are solved, break out your Zaino and put a few coats of protection on your repaired surface.
Alternative solutions: You can fix most surface problems with Meguiars Scratch-X and a paint polish. One of my favorite set of products in the garage is a matched set of Sonus polishes and compounds... step 1, 2 and 3, all professionaly designed and matched to work out the worst of scratches. If you can afford to spend the $30 up front, it's a great set of products to have on the shelf.
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-410.html
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-420.html
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/son-430.html
. I am going to invest in the three step products and plan on learning the correct way to handle this in the future. Thanks again.
6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 10
I just spotted this as well:
You can buy this kit that comes with SFX1 & 3 + the Sonus hand applicator (very cool). You can pick up SFX2 (the one I use most often) for the standard $10 and basically get the hand applicator for $1.
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/sonhandpol.html
You can buy this kit that comes with SFX1 & 3 + the Sonus hand applicator (very cool). You can pick up SFX2 (the one I use most often) for the standard $10 and basically get the hand applicator for $1.
http://www.autopia-carcare.com/autopia/sonhandpol.html
Very cool. I just talked with my detailer friend and will be meeting up with him at the Vegas show (AMVIV) at the end of the month. He laughed a little when I told him what I did. The first thing he said is "you might want to tape around the rock chip area next time 
. I'll watch him work his magic and fix my boo boo on Boo. 
. I'll watch him work his magic and fix my boo boo on Boo.
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6th Gear
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,054
Likes: 10
Another approach at the rock chip problem (before the wet sanding) is Langka. If used within a few hours of applying touch-up paint, it chemicaly 'melts' the blob. It takes a bit of practice and is much more of an art than a science, but it works well with nice, clean paint chips. For scratches that need filling etc., I still like wet sanding.
5th Gear
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 892
Likes: 0
From: Charleston, SC
you may even want to try a multi step sanding kit with a much higher grit. I do some woodworking and use a sanding kit that starts at 1000 and goes all the way to 12000. While I use it on wood (it can create a mirror finish on a piece of wood) it is designed to polish lexan.
If you have a local woodcraft store in your area you can get it there or you can goo to their site (just add the usuall www. .com)
good luck
If you have a local woodcraft store in your area you can get it there or you can goo to their site (just add the usuall www. .com)
good luck
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
Wet Sanding for beginners?? No.
Frankly, I wouldn't recommend wet sanding for anyone not experienced with it. And especially if you've never tried it before, you will want to experiment on a non important panel or different car to get some practice. When you wetsand a scratch, you are essentially trying to remove the bigger scratches by leveling and evening it out with finer scratches. You will get to a point with these finer scratches that a polishing compound can be used to remove the scratches you induced.
Wet sanding is an art, as is buffing a car, as is removing a dent using a PDR. Anyone can buy the tools and follow the instructions, but it doesn't guarantee satisfactory results.
Langka is a good compromise, however it has a lot of variables including the cloth you use to "sand" down the touch up paint blob. Even that will cause scratches surrounding the blob area if you aren't careful. I know this from personal experience when I tried Langka years ago. To me Langka is like wetsanding with a pungent mollassas.
In my opinion, nobody should EVER need to resort to a "rubbing compound" on a MINI, unless you're calling a product with microscopic diminishing abrasives, like Meguiar's M83 or M80, a rubbing compound. Diminishing abrasives are particles that polish out defects and get finer and finer as you work them in. Traditional rubbing compounds are coarse and sharp and don't break down in this manner. There was a recent post about a MINI owner who tried to fix his door with a rubbing compound and really scratched it up.
Now looking at this problem from a Professionals standpoint, without having seen the actual problem, you can safely assume that with the right machine tool, whether a PC or a rotary, the right foam pad, a W8006 yellow pad, or possibly a W7006 red cutting pad with the right paint cleaner (M83, M80, or M82), you can probably buff these scratches out fairly quickly and easily. It does depend on how severe the scratches are before deciding which path to take. Once the scratches are out, you just apply a wax to finish it off. If I pulled the defects out with a rotary, I would certainly follow it with a PC to ensure I didn't leave any rotary marks behind.
Just because I've spelled out an answer above, nobody in their right mind, should be attacking their finish with a Makita rotary buffer without knowing what they are doing lest you want to end up with some holes in your paint.
Wet sanding is an art, as is buffing a car, as is removing a dent using a PDR. Anyone can buy the tools and follow the instructions, but it doesn't guarantee satisfactory results.
Langka is a good compromise, however it has a lot of variables including the cloth you use to "sand" down the touch up paint blob. Even that will cause scratches surrounding the blob area if you aren't careful. I know this from personal experience when I tried Langka years ago. To me Langka is like wetsanding with a pungent mollassas.
In my opinion, nobody should EVER need to resort to a "rubbing compound" on a MINI, unless you're calling a product with microscopic diminishing abrasives, like Meguiar's M83 or M80, a rubbing compound. Diminishing abrasives are particles that polish out defects and get finer and finer as you work them in. Traditional rubbing compounds are coarse and sharp and don't break down in this manner. There was a recent post about a MINI owner who tried to fix his door with a rubbing compound and really scratched it up.
Now looking at this problem from a Professionals standpoint, without having seen the actual problem, you can safely assume that with the right machine tool, whether a PC or a rotary, the right foam pad, a W8006 yellow pad, or possibly a W7006 red cutting pad with the right paint cleaner (M83, M80, or M82), you can probably buff these scratches out fairly quickly and easily. It does depend on how severe the scratches are before deciding which path to take. Once the scratches are out, you just apply a wax to finish it off. If I pulled the defects out with a rotary, I would certainly follow it with a PC to ensure I didn't leave any rotary marks behind.
Just because I've spelled out an answer above, nobody in their right mind, should be attacking their finish with a Makita rotary buffer without knowing what they are doing lest you want to end up with some holes in your paint.
Last edited by OctaneGuy; Mar 14, 2006 at 06:50 PM.
Originally Posted by OctaneGuy
Frankly, I wouldn't recommend wet sanding for anyone not experienced with it. And especially if you've never tried it before, you will want to experiment on a non important panel or different car to get some practice. When you wetsand a scratch, you are essentially trying to remove the bigger scratches by leveling and evening it out with finer scratches. You will get to a point with these finer scratches that a polishing compound can be used to remove the scratches you induced.
Wet sanding is an art, as is buffing a car, as is removing a dent using a PDR. Anyone can buy the tools and follow the instructions, but it doesn't guarantee satisfactory results.
Langka is a good compromise, however it has a lot of variables including the cloth you use to "sand" down the touch up paint blob. Even that will cause scratches surrounding the blob area if you aren't careful. I know this from personal experience when I tried Langka years ago. To me Langka is like wetsanding with a pungent mollassas.
In my opinion, nobody should EVER need to resort to a "rubbing compound" on a MINI, unless you're calling a product with microscopic diminishing abrasives, like Meguiar's M83 or M80, a rubbing compound. Diminishing abrasives are particles that polish out defects and get finer and finer as you work them in. Traditional rubbing compounds are coarse and sharp and don't break down in this manner. There was a recent post about a MINI owner who tried to fix his door with a rubbing compound and really scratched it up.
Now looking at this problem from a Professionals standpoint, without having seen the actual problem, you can safely assume that with the right machine tool, whether a PC or a rotary, the right foam pad, a W8006 yellow pad, or possibly a W7006 red cutting pad with the right paint cleaner (M83, M80, or M82), you can probably buff these scratches out fairly quickly and easily. It does depend on how severe the scratches are before deciding which path to take. Once the scratches are out, you just apply a wax to finish it off. If I pulled the defects out with a rotary, I would certainly follow it with a PC to ensure I didn't leave any rotary marks behind.
Just because I've spelled out an answer above, nobody in their right mind, should be attacking their finish with a Makita rotary buffer without knowing what they are doing lest you want to end up with some holes in your paint.
Wet sanding is an art, as is buffing a car, as is removing a dent using a PDR. Anyone can buy the tools and follow the instructions, but it doesn't guarantee satisfactory results.
Langka is a good compromise, however it has a lot of variables including the cloth you use to "sand" down the touch up paint blob. Even that will cause scratches surrounding the blob area if you aren't careful. I know this from personal experience when I tried Langka years ago. To me Langka is like wetsanding with a pungent mollassas.
In my opinion, nobody should EVER need to resort to a "rubbing compound" on a MINI, unless you're calling a product with microscopic diminishing abrasives, like Meguiar's M83 or M80, a rubbing compound. Diminishing abrasives are particles that polish out defects and get finer and finer as you work them in. Traditional rubbing compounds are coarse and sharp and don't break down in this manner. There was a recent post about a MINI owner who tried to fix his door with a rubbing compound and really scratched it up.
Now looking at this problem from a Professionals standpoint, without having seen the actual problem, you can safely assume that with the right machine tool, whether a PC or a rotary, the right foam pad, a W8006 yellow pad, or possibly a W7006 red cutting pad with the right paint cleaner (M83, M80, or M82), you can probably buff these scratches out fairly quickly and easily. It does depend on how severe the scratches are before deciding which path to take. Once the scratches are out, you just apply a wax to finish it off. If I pulled the defects out with a rotary, I would certainly follow it with a PC to ensure I didn't leave any rotary marks behind.
Just because I've spelled out an answer above, nobody in their right mind, should be attacking their finish with a Makita rotary buffer without knowing what they are doing lest you want to end up with some holes in your paint.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
From: Springfield, Missouri
Originally Posted by pauliekeys
All good points and I wish I had thought about it before I did anything. I will let my friend who is a pro work on the area in Vegas. Thankfully the spot is about the size of my finger nail at best and it's really not bad, some dullness in the clear coat from the wet sand. I'm just going to leave it alone,hide my buffer and throw out my sand paper LOL. Thanks for your help.
You for sure don't want to go through the clear coat. {very easy to do w/sandpaper, especially on an edge}.
3rd Gear
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: Beautiful Central Coast of California
I've had great success with 3M rubbing compound followed by 3M swirl remover.
Dull scuff after wet sanding is normal and should be easily removed by those two products.
I've posted some pictures in this thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ght=wetsanding
so you can check if your "scuff" is bigger than the one I had after my wet sanding.
Good luck.
Dull scuff after wet sanding is normal and should be easily removed by those two products.
I've posted some pictures in this thread:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ght=wetsanding
so you can check if your "scuff" is bigger than the one I had after my wet sanding.
Good luck.
Thanks Xman, What a great write up. I plan to watch and learn how it's done when I have mine fixed. With practice (my wife's car) I can see that it will become easy once a person get's the hang of it. We all are faced with the dreded rock chips here and there and to know how to correct them is a great tool to have. Thanks again.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 473
Likes: 1
From: Exit 9 New Jersey Turnpike
I am facing your dilemma of owning a month-old MINI that I elected not to clear-bra right away (big mistake) and following an 800 mile interstate trip I counted a half dozen small paint chips - most pinpoint sized but two larger than a pinhead and one with visible scratches.
I approached the dealership and all that the body shop manager wants to talk about is repainting the WHOLE bonnet before doing the clear bra - $1000 for the repaint plus whatever the stripes would cost to redo and then $600 for the clear bra. The spots are so small that I just wanted an expert to do the chip repair - but I just cannot abide repainting an undamaged bonnet that is one month old. Really bummed that I am being pressured into this - and that they don't want to discuss touching up the chips for me.
Today, I bought the repair paint at MINI and am considering whether to do it myself. I am a fairly handy person but have never sanded an automotive finish before (and am really scared about the prospects of this.)
Any references for paint chip repair for the neophyte ??? Should I just keep looking further to find an expert for this ???
Bill
I approached the dealership and all that the body shop manager wants to talk about is repainting the WHOLE bonnet before doing the clear bra - $1000 for the repaint plus whatever the stripes would cost to redo and then $600 for the clear bra. The spots are so small that I just wanted an expert to do the chip repair - but I just cannot abide repainting an undamaged bonnet that is one month old. Really bummed that I am being pressured into this - and that they don't want to discuss touching up the chips for me.
Today, I bought the repair paint at MINI and am considering whether to do it myself. I am a fairly handy person but have never sanded an automotive finish before (and am really scared about the prospects of this.)
Any references for paint chip repair for the neophyte ??? Should I just keep looking further to find an expert for this ???
Bill
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,705
Likes: 3
From: Chattanooga, TN
If you have not wet-sanded before don't start on the MINI
I have some body shop experience and have wet sanded paint before so belive me when I tell you not to try this for the first time on your MINI.
Take it to a pro and pay a little now, or pay a lot later.
Take it to a pro and pay a little now, or pay a lot later.
Vendor & Moderator :: MINI Camera and Video & c3 club forum
iTrader: (6)
Wet Sanding?
Remember theh point of wet sanding. You are trying to minimize a defect by adding a finer defect. That is, if you have a scratch or an imperfection that can't be removed by other lesser aggressive techniques and wet sanding is the only solution, then remember that you WILL be left with sanding marks, and if you don't know how to remove them safely, you'll be left off worse than you began with.
Just as well, if you use the wrong sandpaper, or you don't soak it, or wet it long enough, or you press too hard, or you go too deep, it's possible that the sanding marks won't come out, so beware.
I saw Paulie at AMVIV this past weekend, I think he will have more to say on this subject soon.
Just as well, if you use the wrong sandpaper, or you don't soak it, or wet it long enough, or you press too hard, or you go too deep, it's possible that the sanding marks won't come out, so beware.
I saw Paulie at AMVIV this past weekend, I think he will have more to say on this subject soon.
Originally Posted by Jersey_Bill
I am facing your dilemma of owning a month-old MINI that I elected not to clear-bra right away (big mistake) and following an 800 mile interstate trip I counted a half dozen small paint chips - most pinpoint sized but two larger than a pinhead and one with visible scratches.
I approached the dealership and all that the body shop manager wants to talk about is repainting the WHOLE bonnet before doing the clear bra - $1000 for the repaint plus whatever the stripes would cost to redo and then $600 for the clear bra. The spots are so small that I just wanted an expert to do the chip repair - but I just cannot abide repainting an undamaged bonnet that is one month old. Really bummed that I am being pressured into this - and that they don't want to discuss touching up the chips for me.
Today, I bought the repair paint at MINI and am considering whether to do it myself. I am a fairly handy person but have never sanded an automotive finish before (and am really scared about the prospects of this.)
Any references for paint chip repair for the neophyte ??? Should I just keep looking further to find an expert for this ???
Bill
I approached the dealership and all that the body shop manager wants to talk about is repainting the WHOLE bonnet before doing the clear bra - $1000 for the repaint plus whatever the stripes would cost to redo and then $600 for the clear bra. The spots are so small that I just wanted an expert to do the chip repair - but I just cannot abide repainting an undamaged bonnet that is one month old. Really bummed that I am being pressured into this - and that they don't want to discuss touching up the chips for me.
Today, I bought the repair paint at MINI and am considering whether to do it myself. I am a fairly handy person but have never sanded an automotive finish before (and am really scared about the prospects of this.)
Any references for paint chip repair for the neophyte ??? Should I just keep looking further to find an expert for this ???
Bill
. Leave it alone. Don't go into your garage and even look at your front bumper with the thought of "fixing it". I was very lucky that my friend Richard (Octain guy)was able to "correct" my mistake. Fixing rock chips is an art form and takes a great deal of knowlege to do right. If you take on a project like wet sanding you are in for more trouble than you want,belive me. I feel that with the help of people like Richard (octain guy) I will be able to some day get the hang of using a polisher on my finish and learning to work on rock chips but until I attend one of his work shops,I ain't touchin nothin. By the way, I attended AMVIV this weekend in Las Vegas and used a Colgan bra for the drive from San Diego to keep the rock chips down and ended up creating a nice black rub mark across my hood which thankfully Richard was able to take out. I now have a used (one time)Colgan Bra for sale
. I would like to again thank Richard who slaved in the hot Vegas sun for a very looooong time for fixing "Boo's" boo boo.
4th Gear
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 473
Likes: 1
From: Exit 9 New Jersey Turnpike
Thanks everyone for the advice. I am now sufficiently scared that the touch up paint I bought this weekend may not see the light of day. Still stuck in the dilemma of not wanting to risk it myself but not wanting to pay the MINI garage for a whole hood paint job (which seems to be their preferred solution). Got some referrals to touch-up experts so I may start talking to people on this.... Will keep you posted !
Bill
Bill
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