FYI this comparo =my 1999.5 Audi A4, with APR stage 3 turbo kit, coilovers, big brakes (runs a 12.8 quarter and 1:21 at Blackhawk Farms), and my 2005 Mini Cooper S with JCW suspension, H-Sport rear sway, Milltek exhaust, and Tyrol caliper stiffeners. I think that's it - the car's only 500 miles old.

I haven't driven the A4 in a week or two but took it out tonight to stretch its legs. It really gave me a chance to step back and see it from a completely different viewpoint after driving the MCS for a week or so. Some thoughts follow...

Interior: The Mini interior part quality is complete junk. It's one of those interiors that looks nice (in a retro sort of comical way) from far, but when you actually start to manipulate the pieces inside, you realize where corners were cut. An Audi interior makes a BMW interior feel cheap, but a BMW interior makes a Mini interior feel like a Kia interior. It's bad...REALLY bad. There's not really a single interior component which does not disappoint. From the switchfeel of the radio/HVAC/etc to the tolerance on the fit of interior trim, this interior screams LOW QUALITY. I think it's bizarre how great the chassis is and how embarassing the interior components are. It's like mating a Lotus Elise with an Easy-Bake oven. :-(

Seats: The '97 A4 sport seats in my '99.5 A4 are the best street seats I've ever had the pleasure of sitting in, bar none. Honestly, they're perfect. Simple controls (fore and aft, height, and lumbar) yet the support and fabric is impeccable. The lateral support is incredible for an OEM sport sedan, the cloth is INCREDIBLY resilient to stains, foreign objects, etc, and the ergonomic form factor is PERFECT. I've not been more comfortable in a Lexus nor a Porsche. The Mini Cooper S seats, on the other hand, rate only a "Good" in my book. 1. They're UNPERFORATED leatherette. It's not unlike wearing a diaper in extremely hot weather. :-/ That being said, the leatherette is not the slick, shiny, super-cheap feeling A4 stuff. It's softer, grippier, and a wee bit more realistic looking. I'm not a real leatherette fan anymore, and I might end up buying Wet Okole seat covers (or similar) or swapping out the front seats. We shall see...

Acceleration: Damn, even with the hot weather and the crappy conservative APR 93 octane programming, the A4 hauls *** compared to the Mini. If you get caught with your pants down, the A4 can make your face red, but we're talking about circa-2K RPM, and nobody has any business playing in that sandbox in either of these cars. So if you're on your toes and in the boost, then the APR Stage 3 A4 is wearing the belt, by a sympathy-inspring TKO margin. A plus for the Mini however - completely linear engine repsonse - usable torque from 2K, and 6th gear does not necessitate a downshift for passing.

Steering: Felt like I was driving a bus in the A4. Crappy, crappy, crappy. Numb on center and near-zero feedback. Lacking sharpness overall. A known weakness of the B5, no matter how you mod it. BIG strong point with the Mini - turn-in is instantaneous, the ratio is QUICK, and the wheel is meaty. Things happen fast...LOVE IT.

Handling: I always thought my A4 was ***-happy (as anyone who's seen me autocross with cold tires can surely attest) but I went out tonight on a fun run, after driving the Mini with the H-Sport bar in the rear for a few days, and try as I might, I could *not* get the rear end loose. It just required a much more violent lift then I was willing to provide in the city context after driving the Mini for a week. The MCS rotates on such a completely different axis as to inspire confidence even within the constrictive urban setting. It's like driving a scalpel. WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!! (that being said, I think I'm going to put the front H-Sport bar i to feel out the turnin-in versus oversteer balance)

Ride: I think at this point they're about the same. The Mini was DAMN stiff with the OEM runflat tires (those things have CRAZY stiff sidewalls, for obvious reasons) but it's toned down a lot with the Kumho MXs. The A4's H&R coilovers are still remarkably smooth in the ride department for a setup that performs so well at the track and autocross. It does give up a wee bit to the Mini's JCW suspension on the choppy city stuff though.

Brakes: Stoptechs on the A4 kick ***, period. I haven't molested the Mini's brakes yet, apart from some metal Caliper Guide Pins to replace the stock ones with rubber bushings. I have Hawk Blues en route for the track, and will be fabbing some brake ducting as well. I haven't really taken the chance to pound the Mini brakes with aplomb, so I suspect my opinion on this subject is not terribly valid.

Shifter: I have a Neuspeed short shifter on my A4, and have always felt very satisfied with it. A few years ago, an inctructor with a modified C5 Corvette told me that he really liked the feel of the shifter in my A4. That being said, the stock Mini shifter, even before modification (I have an Alta short shifter en route) feels much, MUCH more tight than the A4's. This is not a mileage issue, trust me. It's a completely different ballgame. The A4 feels floppy and indirect, despite the Neuspeed geometry alteration and 2+ inch height reduction.

Chassis: The 2005 MCS DESTROYS the B5 in chassis stiffness. OK, now that it's been said, is it merely age? I don't think so...
1. The MCS is nearly square - it's going to be more solid than a rectangular chassis, ceteris perebus.
2. BMW made this design incredibly beefy to deal with the safety fruitbags on this side of the pond. The car is an IIHS "Best bet" and got four stars from the NHTSA. That explains why it's 3 feet (!!!) shorter than the A4 but still weighs 2650 pounds.
3. Did I mention how stiff this thing is??? Despite the obviously inferior interior build quality compared to an Audi - no rattles, no squeaks, no nothing.

So long story short:

I love both cars. This contrast has given me a chance to expose the weaknesses of both vehicles. Unfortunately, I feel like they are both terminally damned (the A4 by weight and lack of chassis sharpness tuning, and the Mini by it's FWD format and subsequent hi-power traction limitation) but tweaking each is lots of fun.

 

Great comparo. I thought this was well written and thorough. I can't comment at all on the A4 as I have only ridden in one once and I wasn't behind the wheel.

On the MINI. The only comment I would add is that I feel the criticism of the MINI interior may be a bit harsh. That said I suspect that has most to do with the fact that you are used to higher quality. I am not trying to suggest that the MINI has a high quality interior. If you know what to expect from the MINI's interior the quality isn't near as disappointing. For the price point I think the MINI interior is pretty good. A lot of plastic, yes. Not the most precise of fit. But pretty fair. The sort of comments that you made about the interior are more the type of comments I would save for cars like my Dodge Neon rental car that I am so thoroughly enjoying at the moment.

Great comparo....thanks for taking the time to type it out. Real world comparo's like this are always good and always interesting.

 

I agree, it may have been a bit harsh. I really wasn't expecting a Bentley interior when I bought the car, so it wasn't really a big shock or anything.

But when I went to install the OEM alarm and was removing the rear motion sensor housing and manipulating the trim ring around the rear sunroof, I had to laugh at how cheap those components were.

 

Nice comparo Mark. Although I also disagree on the interior quality, for me personally I never thought the A4 had a very high-quality interior either. It was certainly fine and nice, but I didn't notice any change in quality coming over to the MINI. It's possible I'm just not that sensitive to those things.

I had a 2000 A4 with K04, FMIC, and the GIAC J31 software which I think you've heard of. I remember you from over on AW (my handle there is MikeyL). Cool to see you've come over to a MINI; I think I remember your car, the silver 99.5 which also had OZ SL's, did it not?

Anyway, good to see an old AW member here. Are you planning on modding the MINI much? Despite the fact that my A4 was significantly faster, I've found that the MINI is just so much more damn *fun* and balanced that I haven't wanted to mod it at all. Also modding for high power just seems silly with FWD when you won't get anything to the ground, compared to the A4 which seemed to take everything you could give it.

-mike

 

Some bits are definitely flimsy.

 

Maybe I should do a comparo on my old '67 Spitfire or my old '91 Geo Metro....it would be odd, you have to admit!! Compared to both cars my Cooper just kicks it!

 

Interesting read.. You forgot a category or two.. Like resale.. The Audi you have to almost give away. Resale is horrible. My friend has a 2001 A6 that he can't even give away.. its in great condition, but the dealers don't want it as a trade. It's keeping him from getting a Infinity M45. He also has had lots of problems with the Audi. He is not alone in that area either... The mini has its share of problems too... so will be interesting to see how it holds up over the long haul.

I think the mini has a nice interior... Its design and execution is great. I fail to see it as being terrible... The seats are nice, I got cloth and not the vinyl which I dont like at all.
The mini is a fairly inexpensive car. It does not have fancy cow hide on everything like a $50K bimmer. I wasn't expecting that level of refinement and I am not dissappointed.

The mini seems tight as you said... but my 04 Z06 spoiled me. The Z is based on a full frame that is hydroformed so there are minimum welds. It also has a center spine tube that encloses the driveline. It also uses balsa wood encased in metal for the floor boards. Talk about rigid and one piece! The mini seems tight so far.. but will see over time...
Someone on here was bragging about the minis 3800 welds... I don't think thats anything to brag about... would rather have more solid pieces than a bunch of little ones welded together! A full frame would have been a better choice... But then again... we are talking about a $20K car vs a $53K vette.
Its all a compromise... I like the mini because its a more realistic package for the street.. It's economical, fun to drive and very unique. The bang for the buck factor is very high.... I miss the torque of the V8, but there is something to be said for a 1.6L that pulls like a inline 6. There is an element of finess that this little car has that is hard to equate into $$$...

 

Interesting.
Not to beat the isue to death, but the interior comments, while factual, seem to ignore the fact that the MINI's price tag simply cannot support the level of materials found on the Audi.
Also, while not an exact comparison, I recently owned an APR-chipped 1.8T Passat (also a B5 chassis). In spite of a very attractive look, the quality of materials and workmanship in the Passat is not even close to the MINI. Through the gears the cars are almost even but the MINI is much more responsive, especially at lower RPMs. Even with Bilsteins and Eibach springs installed the B5/Passat felt like a floater compared to the MINI.

 

Yup that's me. The Superleggeras on the A4 are track wheels. She wears BBS SXs on the street.

I'm modding the Mini yeah, but not as extensively as the A4. Pulley, exhaust, JCW suspension, wheels and tires, short shifter, and some stereo stuff will probably be all.

 

Yeah I'm loving the thought of actually maintaining some value in the Mini - that's an excellent point. I didn't even bother putting my A4 on the market because the +-$12k that I'd get for it isn't worth it to me.

I think the interior comparison is definitely valid. My MCS cost about the same as the Audi A3, which is light-years ahead in quality.

The Mini is definitely more fun to drive than any Audi tho (well maybe apart from the B7 RS4 )

 

On the interior quality issues. I agree with you, but here's the question... If BMW upped the quality on the interior components, would that price the MINI above where anyone would buy it?

 

My 1969 vw convertible with a 1915 cc turbo charged motor is way faster then my 2005 mini s convert . With that said the mini is way more smiles per mile as the bug is almost 40 yrs old& gets 9 mpg lol. The bugs interior is nicer also but was about 4 house payments to redo. I could of compared my motorhome too but its hard to park . Its a fact the mini makes you smile lots& for me thats enough .

 

Hey everyone, first post. Hope to be a MINI owner in the near future, mostly just picking out my options at this point. I've been to miniusa.com about 17 thousand times at this point. Even printed out the color PDF.

I currently own a 01.5 A4 with the 1.8T, Quattro, etc. Love the car, the outright speed is not the best but not bad, but handling (performance suspension, 17" rims, Pilot Sport A/S tires) is very good. Especially when the weather is bad (rain, snow, marbles

The interior is also great in the A4, material, flow and design. I've test driven an 05 MCS, and sat in a few others and the interior is what stands out most to me, it's very plasticly, and it was the only thing that let me down about the car.

That being said, the MCS gave me a huge smile as soon as I figured out where the SC kicked in, that I could turn on a dime and that I would pay about 5 grand less then I paid for the A4 nearly 4 1/2 years ago.

I'm comparing the MCS against the new A3 (GTI as well), WRX, and perhaps the RSX. And still keep coming back to the MINI. I've looked at them for several years now, and always convinced myself that it wasn't practical enough for me needs. I purchased the A4 as a more "adult" car, four doors, solid feel. I'd owned a Fiero and a 2nd Gen Eclipse GST before that, and thought that I should get a car that could actually hold 4 people.

Thanks to this site I've seen that the utility of the MINI would actually work out for me. My GF and I have a 65 lb dog, who would do fine in the back (which I've seen thanks to the number of pictures posted with dogs), and I don't really carry four people that often. Anyway, if needed I have access to my beat up mini (ha) van to carry more people if needed.

I've reconciled myself with wanting the MINI, and the compromise regarding the interior. It looks like lots of people here have customized the interior so I'm sure that I'll do that. The other plus factors of the car will certainly put a smile on my face. It's a different type of vehicle then the A4 so I'll be ok with that.

Thanks everyone, I've been lurking for a few weeks now and this thread made me decide to register and actually join the community.

Mike (aka Dolmangar)
Reston Va

 

Welcome!

Don't worry, you'll love the Mini. It is SOOOO much more fun to drive than the A4 (and my A4 is highly modded).

Make sure to check out motoringfile.com's new article on 2006 pricing. Only a $200 increase for 2006 on the MCS hardtop!

Good luck!

Mark

 

After lurking a while here I've certainly started to feel that you're right Mark. I'm sure I'll be very happy with the MINI and it will add a fun factor that the A4 just isn't designed to have.

Anyway, haven't you noticed that the A4 board on AW is full of kids now? Only a few years ago it was full of late 20 and 30 year olds! I haven't posted there in probably a year.

Mike

 

Yeah, and they're all dumber than a box of bricks too.

I only post on our local forum there