I need to get a set of track wheels and tires for my 2005 MCS. The obvious choice of wheel is the Kosei K1 Racing but I am undecided on what size to go with: 16" or 17"?

I am not going to shave my fenders to accomodate 225's and I plan to upgrade the brakes in the future to either the JCW kit or the small Willwood kit. Recomendations for wheel size and tire brand/size would be appreciated.

 

16's are best for tire fitments - 205/45 or 215/40

17's offer the best brake clearance, but tires are much more tricky, unless you modify for 225/45.

Alex

 

Here's a good set of lightweight wheels for Track use:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...394#post553394



Honestly though, Rota's are a good inexpensive and strong wheel that are perfect for track days and autocross. There are some wheels at 16in lighter than 13.5lbs but they cost ALOT more.

 

Do most people suggest 16" for track? What about 15"? I am looking for track wheels and slicks, but I am low on cash. I was looking at the stock 15" MINI wheels. Those seem to be pretty good deal, but they are kinda skinny. I was hoping to pick up a set of track wheels for under $300. Is this even possible? I need HELP!!

 

If brakes aren't a worry, then 15's are even better because you can usually get them even lighter. I think ROTA just started offering a 15x7 Slipstream that weighs 12.1 lbs and costs $450 if you look around.

 

15" wheels are possible for track use especially if low on funds and when using stock brakes.

Under $300????!!!????


OK, find some used stock MINI 8 spoke or holey rims 15x5.5" for cheap or for free (check out the trash bins behind the dealership). Holeys are light at 12 pounds while the 8 spokes are 15.2 pounds.

They will fit 205/50-15 tires such as Falken Azenis Sport tires if you can still find them- might be out of stock already or very soon.

Edgeracing lists in 205/50-15
Hankook Ventis Rs2 Z212 for $78 each which are very close to the Falken Azenis and can be driven on the street. 19.5 pounds
Toyo Ra1 (good for the track, not for the street) $120 each 20 pounds.Needs shaving for track use.
Falken Azenis Rt-615 $96 each 21.2 pounds replaces the Azenis Sports

Tirerack.com lists in 205/50-15
Kumho Ecsta MX $86 each 19 pounds (street tires)
Kumho Victoracers V700 $124 each 21 pounds. Needs shaving for track use. (R compound track tires that are durable).
Or in 195/50-15 (smaller 22.7" tire diameter)
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 for $89 19 pounds (Excellent street tires)

For your budget the Hankook Rs2 Z212 is looking attractive but you still have to get the rims, mount and balance the tires.

Are these wheels for track only use, not for any street use? New street tires if used for track tend to overheat and chunk (loose tread in chunks). Competition tires need to be shaved down to 4/32" to work best for track use.

 

I am looking for TRACK ONLY wheels and tires. I dont know much about track tires so I need some advice on them. I want racing tires(slicks), not street tires.

 

If you are trying to find wheels for $300, you are going to have a hard time with spending $600+ for tires, because shaved Kumhos run around $140 (not mounted) and Hoosiers run $200 -> each! It's an expensive hobby.

 

I didnt mean both tires and wheels for $300, Just the wheels.

 

OK, dedicated track only wheels and tires-
Think of both together is a better way then rims first then tires as they all work for you.

For track- light, small, wide and cheap is good.
Not much to choose from (try alex@tirerack.com)
Kosei K1 Racing silver/white finish in 15x7" $109 each 13.5 pounds +38mm offset.
Kosei K1 TS in 15x7" is more at $149 each 12.6 pounds +38mm offset

Or at http://webbmotorsports.com/wheeltire.php
AK Monza 15x6.5" $105 in silver 12.25 pounds +40mm offset

Or stock MINI Holey rims 15x5.5" for cheap- get them used. The 205/50-15 tires will fit any of these but you loose tread width when mounting the tires on more narrow rims. It still works.

What is your suspension setup for track? Do you have front camber plates that can adjust to -2 degrees and rear control arms that can adjust to -1.5 degrees? If not then you WILL wear out your track tires in a hurry.

Track tires can be softer for more grip or firmer for better wear. Some you can drive on the road to and from events while others you need to haul in.

Avon Tech R, Kumho V700, Kumho Victoracer V700 are all good track tires with the victoracers lasting the longest.

Toyo Ra1 and Michelin Pilot Sport cups are good track tires that can be shaved for track use. Also can be driven a little on the road.

Note that tires are expensive in the $600+ range and if you are on the track a fair amount or are running stock alignment then you'd need to replace tires quite often.

 

I understand. But if you are super price aware on the wheels, spending 2x+ that on consumables? You might high performance street tires to be your ticket - they last longer, and they are more forgiving. Novice track drivers are steered away from the racing tires because the higher level of grip is also accompanied by a faster loss of traction once the grip is exceeded.

 

I have eibach lowering springs all around and rear control arms which brings the rear to -1.7, and the front to -.8. I have no camber plates upfront. I havnt really looked into camber plates because they just seem really expensive for what they are. Do you think camber plates would help more than wheel/tire combination? Or is it just the logical step before track only tires and wheels. The reason I am looking into track wheels/tires is because I am having traction problems. It seems like I have reached the limit of my stock wheels and GS-D3s.

 

I saw a set of Holies go for almost $400 on ebay last week! Could the market for these be changing as everyone is scrabling for track wheels?

I picked up a set of BBS RW in 15in w/ Kumho 710's for track use..

 

Honestly it seems like you need to start with some autocrossing as you need some more experience before you start touching R-Compound tires.

As stated above you should get an agressive street tire like Azenis or Hankook RS-2 before jumping into the world of R-compounds. Also Azenis or Hankook's are going to be cheaper off the bat AND in the long run. $600 hundred dollars in R-compound tires that you have to replace every three or so $150-$300 track event will get expen$ive REAL FAST.

I just bought my 225/45/16 Hankook's for $86 a peice which ends up to just over $300 and they should last me the rest of the year autocrossing with a track event or two thrown in.

 

Actually Themeth, I have been autocrossing for over a year, with at least 1 event per month, sometimes two. I have switched from runflats to Eagle F1 GS-D3s 4 months into it, but I am disapointed by how fast they are wearing. I decided to shop for track wheels and tires so I could have both sets last longer, and pick up more traction with the track pair. So instead of being condecending and telling me I am not ready for track designated wheels/tires, maybe you should ask me what kind of "experiance" I have had.
I have also spent the last hour or so looking at options and reading about why I would need track tires on The Tire Rack website. You can get a 205/50/15 v700 voctos for $132 per and 4/32 shaved. This was about what I was thinking of spending. Does anyone else know of any good deals on these tires?

 

OK, you are using the wheels for autocross (this is slightly different than "track" which tends to be more demanding and higher speeds for longer periods of time).

Generally for autocross you want:
Tires that give reasonable grip at a good price.
Soft sticky rubber that works well at lower temperatures under 160 degrees
Lower price
205/50-15 should be OK on either a stock 15x5.5" MINI rim of any type or on an aftermarket 15x7" rim.
225/45-15 can be used if you have a 15x7" rim

You are in SCCA solo II Street mod class given your pulley upgrade so you can run any wheel and tire combo.

For autocross I like Kumho Victoracer V700 which can be heat cycled and shaved for best performance or you can run them full tread and wear them down a bit. The Victoracers last three times longer than Kumho V710s which are excellent but don't last more than about 6 to 10 heat cycles (autocross events). Another choice would be Avon Tech Ra which is a new autocross variant of the Tech R in 205/50-15 if you have the 15x5.5 rim or 225/45-15 if you have a 15x7" rim (excellent combo for autocross).

Michelin Pilot sport cups and Toyo Ra1s are better suited for full track and lapping sessions rather than for autocross although they can be used for that as well.

Avon Tech Ra and Kumho V710 do not need to be shaved, heat cycling is helpful.

Front camber plates help you to use more of the front tires. Given your MCS has limited front camber you can use only so much- mostly you will wear out the outer edges of the front wheels. Flipping some of the tires when 30% worn might help to prolong tread life- (except for V710s).

 

Hey, if you want to take it as condecending you go ahead and do that but i was just trying to help you out.

Great to hear you have been autocrossing already, good start. But i think you still have unreal expectations because you still don't have enough experience. Also you didn't give us much info i'm not going to go prying for it.

You said you are disapointed with the wear on a set of street tires that i'm guessing get street and autocross duty after a full year? A set of street tires will be gone after a full year of autocross and full street duty. Thats what i did with my Conti-Sports on my SVT Focus in my first year of Autox back in 02'. Your not going to get much more than that if you don't have a dedicated autocross tire.

You still haven't answered why you need R-compounds??? Are you competing at your track events, door to door? If your worrying about spending over $300 on a set of wheels then $500-$600+ as we have said will floor you on JUST tires.

We're trying to help you, so thanx for being rude in return....

 

Not to hijack the thread, but what wheels do you have these on and how do they fit? Any rubbing issues? I almost bought these to mount on my stock V spokes but wasn't sure if they would fit and went with RT-215 Azenis in 215/45 R16 instead. If I can get these to fit with a small spacer if needed the hankooks will probably be my next tire after these Azenis wear out, which shouldn't take too long.

Joe

 

I'm not so sure I agree at all about the "..you need to wait till your more experienced till you get 'R' compounds.." thinking. They are just not that tricky and there are in fact some good R compounds out there that last way more then three track days, one, which I use, is the Toyo RA1.

That being said, the problem with many R compounds being used for Auto-X is that they usually need a good warm-up lap to get them to stick. Something that you can't really do with Auto-X, though I gather the Hoosiers stick pretty well cool, but they are the tire that has a very short life span.

Camber plates!!!! Yes, if you are having traction problem and poor tire wear then front camber plates and rear control arms are a must. Not being familiar with Auto-X rules, I don't know that they are allowed though. BUT, with these two mods you will get much higher results in handling then with an R compound tire. If your serious about performance I feel that these are a must, and absolutely before R compounds or else you will just kill the tires for sure.

 

I have a set of 225/45/16 Hankook's mounted on a set of 16x7 Rota Grids with 40mm offset. No problems with rubbing. Here's a pic of the car with them on:






Before the next autocross i'll be putting on my H&R springs and i don't see that there will be any problem with rubbing as i have 215/45/16 Azenis mounted on another set of Rota's that have never rubbed when lowered.

 

I think I may look into the camberplates then. Does anyone have any recommendations? What type of camber would be a good auto-x setting?

 

Do a search, it's all there. :smile:

 

What the hell happened to my thread?

Thameth,

I'm presuming that is an un-lowered Mini you have those Hankook's on?
How are the Hankook's?

 

Ooops sorry...

 

For track and autocross having more front negative camber is a big plus. You can make better use of your tires and corner with more confidence. If you are in SCCA solo II Street Mod class then it is legal to have adjustable front camber plates. Common ones are RDR plates about $500 (on special now at Helix13.com) or Webbmotorsports plates or check with Ryephile at detroittuned.com.

Camber plates should be durable and beefy and allow you to set the front camber from about -0.8 degrees to about -3.0 depending on your suspension.

After installing camber plates you'll need to realign your suspension.

For autocross you might try-
Front camber -2.1 degrees
Front toe 1/16" out
Rear camber -1.5 degrees
Rear toe zero

If you go with more negative camber in the front you will be compromising straight line acceleration and braking but help cornering. Tires can also wear out faster on the inner edge with street use.

If you go with more negative camber in the rear you will increase understeer a bit and wear tires out more with street use on the inner edges.

Maximum toe out in the front can be up to 1/8" out. Should work OK for autocross but could be a bit twitchy for street use.

see
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=40621

Rear swaybar can be on the middle or stiff setting- depends on your driving style.