I've only bled my MINI brakes once, and I did so the old-fashioned, bother the wife, 2-person method .

After reading how the vacuum units are mabye not the best for us, that is why I did not use my handy dandy one before. I'm about to install some braided ss brake lines, so it's time again to prepare for a bleed. And, being that I've been in communications with Tony Nuzzo for this Saturday's Grand Am race at Laguna Seca (I can't wait!), I learned that he uses a one-man vacuum bleeder.

When doing the 2-person method, I was told to start at the wheel furthest away, or the right rear/passenger side, and work to the nearest (of the reservoir). However, in my directions for my vacuum unit, it states the opposite - start at the nearest...

Are these directions somehow different because the methods are different, or is one way simply "better" regardless of how this is performed?

Curious to hear what folks think...

 

I've thought a while for a good explanation, but can't seem to find the correct words to describe why this works best for each method.
my best explanation goes something like this:
2-person method: you want to push the air to the extremities of the system, so starting furthest away gives each extremity the best opportunity to fill with fluid.
vacuum method: when you pull the air out, starting closest to the M/C gives you the shortest route each time you pull out the air. once purged, each line gives a fully filled fluid passage that can't allow air to be siphoned back through the system.
Hope I didn't just add confusion.

 

Do yourself a big favor and pick up one of these from Motive Products (no, I don't work for them nor do I sell them):



Put 1 liter of your favorite fluid in it, pump it up to 15 -20 psi and bleed away. Start with your passenger rear, then driver's rear, then passenger front, then driver's front. Run around the car twice for good measure. This particular bleeder only requires one person and is safe for our ASC/DSC/ABS motors. I have used this bleeder for months now (on many types of vehicles) with great success. I bought it at Amazon of all places

 

Old single circuit systems required you do the wheel farthest from the mc first. This prevented air from being moved around but not purged. Today with circuits being dedicated there is no benefit to this at all. Assuming you don't let the reservoir run dry and ABS system. Both bad news and likely to requrie a trip to a dealer for further service.

I'll add that I'm very 'anti' anything other than gravity flow and a simple bleeder bottle with a hose on it. Seen, read, heard of too many complaints from the use of special tools. Bleeding is not rocket science- you simply need to transfer fluid. Not under pressure, or vacume, light pumps and strokes is all it takes. On the other hand I know folks who swear by some of these tools...

 

According to the FAQs on many reputable brake vendors the pressurized bleeding is not advisable as it compromise the process. Air is compressible and under pressure is compressed into very small bubbles into the fluid. If you ever see air bubbles rushing out of a fluid under vacuum you will get the picture of the effect. I don't know in practice how much softer the brake will feel with this method. My guess is probably very little.

Using the master cylinder to pump the fluid is a different as the pressure is applied to the fluid only. No compression of air.

 

huh? Pressure is pressure, regardless of whether it's being created by a piston or air pressure. Systems like the motive aren't high-pressure and I don't expect them to cause any problems with air that may already be in the system.

The motive actually works well on cars with screw-on caps - though I've never owned one personally. I have several bleeding "toys" and the thing I like the best is a dual-hose brake bleeding bottle with check valves in the hoses. It's a combination of something like a speedbleeder (which I despise btw) and a simple hose run into a bottle. The main advantage is this bottle won't spill when you knock it over.

I did label all these toys though... a nice flexible hose from the hobby shop with a loop in it and an old (clean) soda bottle are all you need.

 

From my chair I'm simply saying that gorilla pressure on the pedal is NOT required. I've watched guys stab a brake pedal like they were crushing a can! Why? Gotta build up pressure man! Um, ok. But 1000psi is not really needed for that...Only to have it spray the inside of the fender well - or your face.

 

Yea, I've seen quite a few people who like to pump the pedal and basically stand on it while the helper releases the bleeder. I never understood what they were trying to accomplish.

 

Thanks for the thoughtful replies guys. I wasn't execting consensus, but I do like to hear the rationale...

While at Harbor Freight yesterday, Tony Nuzzo asked if I'd pick him up two of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=37201

This is set-up is driven by the brake pedal, but my pushing gently. The top of the bottle has an air hole, for escape purposes. The guy is really busy preparing for the race this Sat, so I didn't want to hit him up with too many questions... Heck, for 4 bucks, I bought one also.

I've had something like this for many years, and I was contemplating giving it a shot on my MCS:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=92474

After speaking with Peter of M7 last night, he's still a fan of the 2-person method. I really want to try one of these one-person methods, and the tire sequence still seems to be a quandry of sorts. I sent a PM to Tony Nuzzo asking him what he and his team do in that regard. I would love to get a good bleed the first time around, and do it by myself . Thanks again for your ideas!

 

I bought the ProMINI version of this unit and used it for the first time this spring. Worked as advertised. I was able to get the job done by myself in a matter of minutes.

 

Being that I have a 10 or 20% coupon from BMP/PROMINI that I just got in the mail, I might go that route. Thanks SumWon.

I guess the question sort of remains though.... start at the furthest away, or the nearest?

 

I went with the traditional, started with the passenger rear. More habit than anything.

 

And did you get a good bleed (high pedal engagement) with just one bleed?

If the fluid is being pushed-out, I for sure will start with the right rear, and work inward. If however, I decide to vacuum it out, then I'm not sure where to start. Oh well...

 

First of all I am not claiming I know first hand the ill effect of using this pressurize system to bleed brakes. I for one however will only use the good old pump the paddle and bleed method or the vacuum method.

There is a difference in the pressure that created by the master cylinder piston vs one by the Motive. The master cylinder piston is submerged and not exposed to air so there is no compression of air molecules into the brake fluid. With the Motive system you are raising the air pressure withing the reservoir from atmospheric to say 20 PSI to drive the fluid. The increased pressure pushes the air in the reservoir and that in the chamber of the Motive system into the fluid. The concern is the air contain moisture which becomes vapor above the boiling point.

 

i've been using the pressure bleeder for a few years now on my MINI. works well. the only problem i had was once not haveing the gasket set correctly. when i began to pressurize it just ran out all over. my bad, i've learned from my mistake.

i have to bleed my brakes at least once a day at the track. i'll get a big brake kit in a few months when i can afford it.

 

When you guys bleed the brakes is it done with the engine running and supplying vacuum to the master cylinder? Does it even matter? What about the anti-lock system? Any special care with it? I am definately not a brake guy.

Thanks,

Bear

 

You don't need the engine running to bleed. The vacuum assists the brake pressure but you don't need it for bleeding. Doing so also add unnecessary hazard as you are likely to have a wheel off. The ABS does not change the process. You want to make sure the reservoir never run dry and introduce air into the ABS assembly. you will need to take it to the dealer should this happens.

 

Thanks, Zociac,

I remember with a Jeep Grand Cherokee there was "special procedures" followed when working with the ABS. I was reluctant to mess with them...

Bear