I have my crossover pipe started in the water pump as shown below. However, I believe that crossover pipe went all the way and flush or nearly flush with the milled surface of the aluminum. This whole thing is the worse thing every engineered into a car. Using a plastic pipe only holding an o-ring to hole water pressure integrity for the whole coolant system. Was this engineered on October Fest or something?

I have pushed and pushed and I don't know how I can get the crossover pipe all the way in?
I have grease on there as well. It isn't helping.

There HAS to be a trick??

I have been pushing on mine for hours. Pushing and jiggling while pushing. It has not moved a 1/4 of a mm. I have applied at least 30-40 nm of force. zilch. notta. not working.
I just used the old crossover pipe to try to get more leverage to push it in. It is NOT going in. I tried a hair dry to warm up the water pump side, it doesn't fit.
Is this another case where the FEBI parts are junk?



Check out this video at 16:00 min. His pipe goes right in no problem. THAT is not mine. I have used 10x the force he just used and it has gone NO WHERE. I am worried that this is again a problem with going with Febi and not OEM. The OEM pipe is obviously garbage. Is there an aluminum version of this so I never have to worry about this again?

 

I used the OEM replacement, and had no issues. I did lube the o-ring with dielectric grease. Have heard where the aftermarket pipes can have a casting line in the plastic that interferes with proper fit. Also have heard that o-rings may not be the right size, and/or there is a casting line in the o-ring groove that won't allow it to seat properly. Hope you get it figured out. And, YES, stupid design!

 

@mini-is-for-me Given that you have read the thread "R56 Coolant Crossover Pipe - Isnt there a better way": what o-ring are you using?

FWIW:
An R56 owner in Germany posted pictures comparing the OEM (i.e. made for and sold by BMW/MINI) and the Febi pipe. The difference in both length and the thickness of the o-ring is visible. Here's the pictures, along with pictures of the Febi packaging and label (in case you fear that you've been sold a counterfeit Febi pipe).

PS/Edit: The poster in the german forum also reported slight (but probably important) differences in molding quality.

Source of the comparison pictures: https://www.mini2.info/showthread.ph...758#pid2760758
Pictures of the packaging and lable are by me.

 

Wow, the differences look stark there. Yes, I just re-glued my old one back together so I could compare (it is still drying). However, I did notice the OEM O-ring width is small compared to the Febi one. I have no idea why people would sell this part and say it fits when you can clearly see the difference in these photos. So I guess I just wasted a bunch more money on parts.

 

So far I have not figured it out....other than suspecting I should have bought the OEM.
Is there a photo out there showing how far the coolant line is supposed to go INTO the water pump housing? This would help me because I have my pump out. I am expecting it to go further in and for the O-ring to be fully inside of the water pump housing and basically the face of the tube to be nearly flush with the end of the tube. However, if the O-ring is just suppose to seal around the outside, it is probably correct. The whole thing is so dumb. There isn't even a self machined in to "hold" the o-ring. I am totally surprised this actually works at all. That O-ring looks to be the ONLY thing holding the entire coolant system together. It's an engineering disaster.

 

Remove the O-ring on the Febi and make sure that there is no ridge from the mold process (it cut the O-ring on one of my attempts). Then use silicone paste. Or vaseline. Or something to make it get in. You want the O-ring in the hole obviously. I think the fins were sticking out 2 or 3mm in the end, but not sure.

 

Thanks. I just removed it again. I have thoroughly inspected the pipe. I remove the o-ring. I can see they have changed the QC procedure and they actually clean the mold debris under the O-ring now.

The Febi O-ring looks to be a 4mm OD O-ring thickness. The OEM O-ring is a 3mm OD O-ring. The OEM part feels heavier then the Febi and it feels like it is made from thicker plastic inside the tube. Another difference I see is that the OEM pipe is not 100% straight and it actually curves to the right looking from the top. The Febi does a tiny but but not nearly as pronounced. I put the part closest to the Thermostat against my table and measure how much the deflection to the right was "under" the table. I would say the OEM easily goes to the right an additional 4-5mm.

Tomorrow in the daylight, I'm going to try and fit the original pipe that was there back in and see how difficult it is. If it turns out to be easy, I'm going to call this another case of another bad purchase. Also, I have been using silicon grease/paste with pfte (teflon). These I believe are coolant-safe. I just flushed my coolant system not even a year ago so I see no need to flush it again. However, when I watched the Mini Mechanic video install, he uses Silicon spray. I tried that on the Thermostat and that made a HUGE difference. The grease and Vaselines are thick. The silicon spray on the other hand is very thin and seem to be much, much slippery.

 

Does anyone have a blow up diagram of exactly HOW the original engineers envisioned the cross-over pipe was supposed to work in the water pump housing. I can feel there is a tiny ridge on the outside of the housing so more than say 3-4mm. Is this supposed to be where the O-ring seals and only the pipe in front of the O-ring (about 3mm) is all that is supposed to protude into the water pump housing? I find that insane but with this car possible. OR, is this 3mm shelf on the water pump housing intended to catch the plastic vanes on that side of the water pump and keep it from going in further?

 

The orange should definitely be inside the water pump housing, otherwise it won’t seal. Are you sure there isn’t a broken piece of the old water pipe still left inside the pump housing?

 

No, unfortunately, there is an o-ring seat that you can feel on the very outside of water pump housing which is where the O-ring seats. Only the very front of the crossover tube just in front of the O-ring actually goes into the water pump housing. There is no way the tube could fit back to the thermostat any other way-it wouldn't be long enough Trust me I was surprised as well. It amazes me this junk works at all.

I used the old crossover tube without the O-ring to verify all of this. You could push till the cows come home. Once that o-ring goes into the seat, that is as far as it is going. There is nothing holding it there but pressure. So you have to attach the thermostat hoping it doesn't fall out. This is why so many people keep messing this up because the chances of it falling out while putting in the Thermostat is about 75%. Luckily I have the water pump off, so I can see it and make sure it is in.

 

If your old pipe came off broken, it’s possible the very tip is still in the water pump housing, preventing the new pipe from fully seating:



Look at this engine block, you can see the hole where the tube goes for the water pump. The tube should be almost fully seated into the hole, such that the tabs on the tube are centering it in the hole.




Here is the tube from inside the water pump housing, and you can clearly see how deep it’s seated:



If the tube is properly seated in the pump housing, when the thermostat is installed there should be almost no longitudinal movement of the tube. Then, the clip is installed to lock it all down.

 

Thanks.
So I am 100% positive there is no broken elements in the water pump housing or on the outside of the housing. I recovered the entire old water pipe and in fact, I glued it back together so I could try and figure this stuff out and I am basically using it to try and understand what the engineers were smoking when they came up with the design. In addition, my water pump is out. I can see there is nothing there like your photo below. I can also stick my whole hand into the water pump housing and partially into the hole where the tube comes in and rub my fingers on the outside back side of the housing and I can feel a grove. The very grove your photo I re-post below shows.

Are you 100% sure "that groove" is not the grove for the O'ring on the water pit. It sure looks like an O-ring "seat" to me.


I can NOT get the crossover pipe to go over that grove which fits the O-ring perfectly and to sudden squeeze sufficiently to go into that hole. That includes using the Thermostat as a battering ram because the only thing it is doing is deforming the connection rather than pushing it further. If you look at the end of the cross-over pipe (pump side), there is no where for the O-ring to squeeze to. It is not possible for the O-ring to reduce in any meaningful size sufficiently to get into that hole. It is too big. Its width already takes up the entire area within that groove.

In addition, using the old OEM as a test pipe (without the O-ring because it was stretched and worthless), if the pipe went in as far as you show it in your photo, which is a good 1.5-2 inches further, the actual end of the pipe on the thermostat side would end up "under the intake manifold" and it literally would be impossible to add the pin to the thermostat end because you would not be able to see where it goes.

Here I will go and get a picture showing how far my pipe currently goes into the water pipe and show you what is going on.

 

I really appreciate your reply because I'm not sure how this is supposed to "actually look" correctly installed.

Here are two photos from where I am currently right this second after weeks and hours and hours.

This first photo shows how far my new pipe is currently going in. This is actually using the Thermostat as a battering ram. Here you see with the screws about 75% in, it is still at least a full inch or more (I believe) from what your photo is showing.


2nd Photo shows the thermostat trying to be used a battering ram to force the pipe in. As you can see, it isn't working. The Thermostat is NOT going straight into the pipe.


Now is this because it can't push the tube in any further into the pump housing, or is this a different problem of not seating the tube and Thermostat first with the retaining ring? Not sure. I'm also not sure I could even get these two together before hand as I have no way to get a grip on anything to push the two together and the second you try that, the tube falls out of the water pump housing.

Here is a photo better showing these not lining up.

 

Take a look at this picture again, and compare to yours…
The tube should be almost flush with the inside edge of the pump housing, maybe just a little shy from flush. Looks like the oring on your pipe just isn’t sliding into the housing. The “groove” that you highlighted in your other post is actually a chamfer that is designed to help the oring be directed into the hole. Maybe you need to apply a little bit more lube to help it seat into the hole? Are the tabs on your tube hanging up on nothing under the manifold? Is the tube orientation correct?

 

No nothing is hanging up. I can reach in there and pull the electrical stuff to the side rather easily. I've got to the point where I can put it right down in there now easily. Yes it is pointed down and slightly towards the back such that the tab on the bottom of the thermostat tab is directly on the bottom and fits straight into the pipe. Here is a picture of the original thermostat with the pipe attached showing the same orientation I am using to try and get things to fit.




The only difference I see is the O-ring in this FEBI crossover pipe is at least 1-2 mm "THICKER" than the OEM. The O-ring in the OEM pipe has a little bit of room and it is loose inside of the groove so that it can "flatten" INSIDE of the groove and take up the rest of the space of the grove. Basically there is room in the groove for expansion. On the other hand, the O-ring on this Febi pipe has NO expansion room. Zero. It cannot flatten at all. It must go in "as is" and I can't get it to go into the housing any further. See this photo of the OEM pipe glued back together with the original O-ring and a piece of card board showing that there is lots of space inside the groove. My Febi pipe has ZERO room. The O-ring completely fills the groove. I don't have a picture of it because it is sitting in my car right now. However, trust me, it fills the entire width of the grove




So what is the trick? What is the trick to get the pipe in. It isn't grease. I have used silicon, coolant safe PTFE. I have used Vaseline. I have used silicon spray and I have even used a combination of all of those things. It DOES NOT fit!

 

You see this picture above posted with the pipes side by side.

You see that little space I am highlighting with the red arrows on the OEM pipe. Mine is the Febi and that photo shows a "tiny" bit of space. However, on my actual part there is NO SPACE whatsoever. It completely fills the grove. I did my best to color in the grove.

It is the "only" thing I can think of...



I mean...I think if you could somehow get it to fit, it would be tighter. However, I believe I might have been sold more junk that doesn't work.... When I bought it the website said Febi was the OEM for this part.

 

I think your photos have me coming to the conclusion I need to purchase the OEM pipe. I mean it looks like I could go and get an O-ring and hope that is the only problem. However, with shipping that is going to cost me around $15. It doesn't seem worth taking the chance of having the car sit again for 2 weeks waiting for parts. I believe I have been ripped off again with inferior parts. I had to go and buy the OEM water pump and it was literally night and day size wise.

What I am starting to see is that the "tolerance" on all these parts is RAZOR THIN. They can't be "almost-like or nearly like OEM". If they are not EXACTLY like the OEM and if they are just 1mm off, they simple DON'T FIT!

This is my theory.

 

So my solution to the problem was exactly as I illustrated above. The OEM pipe fits like a dry glove. The extra 0.1-0.2 mm larger size of the FEBI O-ring prevents it from "contracting" under pressure. The OEM pipe has a slightly smaller (width) O-ring. So as it is squeezes into the water pump housing, it deforms and slightly flattens to fill up the remaining space in the grove and seal against the inside of the water pump housing. The Febi O-ring on the other hand, has no place to squeeze down to. It fully occupies the entire space in the groove already. So, it just sits there on the end of the housing unable to enter the water pump housing. The same problem exists on the other side. The OEM Thermostat fits easily into the OEM Pipe. However, the Febi pipe is much tighter. It is possible to get it to fit off the car albeit with a lot of force. When you try to install it with the Thermostat bolt torque, it would rather deflect and not go in because it also can't go into the water pump housing on the other side of the pipe anyway.

Could I have used massive force to make these work? I can't say it is impossible but very unlikely. More than likely it would have deformed the crossover pipe or damaged it. Save yourself lots of headaches! I know the after market pipes are $15-$35 and the OEM pipe is $80+. It seems like you are wasting a lot of money on a basic piece of plastic. You will burn through that time difference after the first hour of frustration.

See the Febi below--NO ROOM!