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Hey guys, I just test drove a 03 R53-S that had a new clutch. As I was coming to a stop, I was in 2nd gear, I pushed the clutch in to shift back to first and it wouldn't go in. I was still coasting when I tried this. The car went into first after going to neutral and letting the clutch out then pushing the clutch back in.
Is this normal for the 6speed in these cars? If not what could it possibly be?
Hey guys, I just test drove a 03 R53-S that had a new clutch. As I was coming to a stop, I was in 2nd gear, I pushed the clutch in to shift back to first and it wouldn't go in. I was still coasting when I tried this. The car went into first after going to neutral and letting the clutch out then pushing the clutch back in.
Is this normal for the 6speed in these cars? If not what could it possibly be?
Most cars with manual gearbox will be hard to downshift into first while in motion, and the Mini is no different. It depends on the speed of your coasting. Your last sentence is that you executed a double clutching which spin up the idle gear to ease the job the synchromesh needs to do.
Most cars with manual gearbox will be hard to downshift into first while in motion, and the Mini is no different. It depends on the speed of your coasting. Your last sentence is that you executed a double clutching which spin up the idle gear to ease the job the synchromesh needs to do.
I had an r56s with a 6speed as well, I was able to downshift to first while moving. I understand these cars might have different transmissions. I guess what I'm concerned about is if this is a symptom of a bad synchro in first.. it didn't grind at all but I also wasn't moving when I put it in first
It it is significantly more difficult to get into first at low speed than your R56 I will be suspicious the gearbox has been abused, or seen better days. You should also consider the possibility of dragging clutch too, but I would think that should make shifting into first difficult while stationary.
No you are correct, how ever when coming to a stop sign ( i don't fully stop) I put it in first Gear to gain speed again.
Next time, just give the throttle a blip and then shift into 1st. With todays gearboxes, that should be enough (no need to double clutch). Remember 1st gear is pretty low, so don't be afraid to give it a good blip.
No you are correct, how ever when coming to a stop sign ( i don't fully stop) I put it in first Gear to gain speed again.
Watch for the 5-0.
Originally Posted by gumbedamit
The only time I will shift down to 1st gear is when I'm rolling under 3-4mph.
I usually just leave it in second, habit I guess.
When I learned to drive stick I was told that first gear synchos tend to be built weaker/less effective because you really only put the car in first at a stop. This would be why it is hard to put the car in first whilst you are rolling, they aren't built for that. You can bypass this by double clutching the shift, which is why we have synchros in the first place.
Has anyone here ever driven a non-synchro'd transmission? It's an interesting experience...
When I learned to drive stick I was told that first gear synchos tend to be built weaker/less effective because you really only put the car in first at a stop. This would be why it is hard to put the car in first whilst you are rolling, they aren't built for that. You can bypass this by double clutching the shift, which is why we have synchros in the first place.
Has anyone here ever driven a non-synchro'd transmission? It's an interesting experience...
If you've ever driven cars like MGB which has rather weak and failure prone synchromesh, especially those in 1st and 2nd you would soon gain proficiency in double-clutching.
With tiny city blocks littered with stop signs like Portland, I often will just start in second in these repeating stop and go situation. The fear monger will tell you it is very bad for the drivetrain. If you a good driver (that knows how drivetrain works) and not in a hurry I don't see any evil. If I feel compelled to downshift from 2nd to 1st, like negotiating a very steep road I will execute a double-clutching as it make going into first at a few MPH that much easier. The other situation is when approaching a red light about to turn green, and I time it perfectly that I want to be ahead of higher power car next to me, I will execute a double clutch from 2nd in 1st so I can have the best accelerate when the light turns green and I am just rolling towards it.
It is all about practicality and flexibility in respond to the specific situation.
It is all about practicality and flexibility in respond to the specific situation.
Which is why I prefer manual transmissions in general. Every automatic I've ever driven was in the wrong gear at the wrong time. My fiance's Mazda 3 is particularly bad because it has so many gears to choose from.
Back to OP's original question. As through these exchanges there is still his first hand experience and not mine. How well he can describe the exact condition and difficulty in downshift from 2nd into 1st while "coasting" and what his notion of coasting means to me. Since he drives a R56 manual would assume his judgement that something is not normal with the R53 he test drove should not be dismissed as normal.
There are many things that can contribute to difficulty to downshift 2nd > 1st at reasonable low speed. It can be a worn synchromesh. It can be bent shift folk. It can be chewed up dog teeth. It can be worn splines and/or their mating keys. It can be draggy clutch. It can be deteriorated shift cable. Hence I am not about to say it is normal without driving it first hand.
Back to OP's original question. As through these exchanges there is still his first hand experience and not mine. How well he can describe the exact condition and difficulty in downshift from 2nd into 1st while "coasting" and what his notion of coasting means to me. Since he drives a R56 manual would assume his judgement that something is not normal with the R53 he test drove should not be dismissed as normal.
There are many things that can contribute to difficulty to downshift 2nd > 1st at reasonable low speed. It can be a worn synchromesh. It can be bent shift folk. It can be chewed up dog teeth. It can be worn splines and/or their mating keys. It can be draggy clutch. It can be deteriorated shift cable. Hence I am not about to say it is normal without driving it first hand.
I'm going to possibly test drive it again tonight, I will try a few things such as Revving the engine then trying to put in first to see if the synchro is going out. I guess what I am really wondering is if the transmission is locking me out of 1st (which most manual cars have a lockout on first gear). With your own R53 do you have to double clutch to put it in first, say at a stop light?
From: Portland, OR *currently in a temporary email address
Originally Posted by SpuuDy
I'm going to possibly test drive it again tonight, I will try a few things such as Revving the engine then trying to put in first to see if the synchro is going out. I guess what I am really wondering is if the transmission is locking me out of 1st (which most manual cars have a lockout on first gear). With your own R53 do you have to double clutch to put it in first, say at a stop light?
Originally Posted by pnwR53S
No. R53 should behave very similar to your R56 which I think has a very similar Getrag 6 speed.
^^this. I think in general, when test driving a car, I wouldn't even worry about double clutching or anything fancy. Just drive the car normally. Depress the clutch fully between shifts. Keep your foot off the clutch, and hand off the shifter when in gear. Come to a complete stop before shifting into 1st. Give it some throttle between higher gear changes and check operation of engine, transmission, mounts, suspension, brakes, etc. Listen for clunks, vibrations, pings, and other weird noises.
Leave learning to double clutch (unless you're already perfect at it) for cars you already own. And for heaven's sake, don't buy the car if you have any mechanical concerns. It's best to buy the best example you can afford with a near-perfect maintainance history than it is to buy something with undisclosed issues.
For more things to look for when buying a used r53, check modmini's video on YouTube. We can only help with good driving habits and common issue identification. Your eyes, ears, hands, and feet are the best tools at your disposal.
Here is one good photo (from Wikipedia) of the basic functioning of a gearbox. You can see the synchromesh (made of bronze alloy), dog teeth, male and female spline collars, the spring loaded detent wedges (keep the selected gear in place from slipping out), and the shift forks. It might be hard to see how all these work in unison until you have a chance to play with them first hand. I did back in high school days to teach myself in successfully fixed a Ford and a Fiat gearbox.
If the dog teeth are chewed up, the symptom is likely that sometime you cannot shift into gear but upon retry you can. The dog teeth that I refer to are the sharp teeth that are in the axial direction.
here is a photo of chewed up dog teeth
I took the Mini out today, and I made a point to test the 2nd to 1st downshift for you. I can do it without double-clutching at around 10 MPH without problem. I did do so gently, and there is no grinding or much resistance. But my Mini has never been abused.
It sounds like they couldn't get the shifter to simply shift into first with the clutch pressed in? You should be able to shift the damn thing into first on the freeway with the clutch pressed in!! (just don't let off the clutch lol)
I used to do that almost every time I was coming to a stop sign in preparation to takeoff again. No way should you have to stop or come very close before being able to move the stick if your clutch pedal is down.
So when we first drove the car the connector on the battery terminal was broken therefore it was loose. The lights were flickering and it was doing that first gear thing. The guy replaced the terminal and we test drove it again, the car didn't do the first gear thing and all the problems went away.
We ended up buying the car. It's a R53-S Grey with white top. 82,000 miles hail damage and needs tires and windshield. One owner car. We paid 3500 for it. I think we got a good deal.
So when we first drove the car the connector on the battery terminal was broken therefore it was loose. The lights were flickering and it was doing that first gear thing. The guy replaced the terminal and we test drove it again, the car didn't do the first gear thing and all the problems went away.
We ended up buying the car. It's a R53-S Grey with white top. 82,000 miles hail damage and needs tires and windshield. One owner car. We paid 3500 for it. I think we got a good deal.
Congrats! I did a windshield on my hardtop. $300. No big deal.
