I've got a set of Ireland Engineering Fixed Camber Plates on the front of my car....I'm running around 2 deg camber. With street tires on the car, if feels pretty balanced if I had a fast corner pretty hard......if anything, the car wants to oversteer a little bit.

If I put a stiffer aftermarket rear swaybar on the car, won't it make that oversteer issue even worse?

Anyone run more camber in the front (more grip) and a stiffer swaybar in the back (less grip)? Does it make the car want to swing the rearend out around corners?

Thanks for the info

 

yeah, it makes it rotate even better. I run -3.5 up front and -2 in the rear and stock rear sway, but I have 8kg/mm front springs and 9kg/mm rear springs so it's like running a stiffer rear bar.

I can balance between understeer and oversteer with the throttle, hard to make out but you can see it on this vid, this turn is so long I can play with making the car drift, you can watch me correcting if you watch the steering wheel

 

For a street car, what size rear bar would you suggest (with stock springs, and -2 front camber plates).

 

Like you I agonized over what size to go with when I set out to make the Mini more fun. I read countless threads on suspension and sway bars. My initial consideration was 19mm as there are many said 22mm will be way too stiff, and some said will make the Mini too tail happy. With much research I was all set to go with 20mm from downunder - thinking that I might be safer to split the difference of opinions. What I didn't like about the bar is no stops to hold it from lateral shifting.

I would eventually gather my courage and went with the Alta 22mm. I also upgraded to Swift Sports Spring, Koni yellow, and IE fixed plates all at the same time. The difference from stock is immense, on road as well as on track. Even during my first few drives on twisties, to my greatest surprise I immediately felt right at home how the car handled. I set it at the soft setting and to me there is no tendency to oversteer. In one of my spirited twisties test run I got a bit carried away in a tight curve that has a big dip mid curve, and the car was upset. The tail broke loose but I didn't panic and I counter steered and bailed out of the dicy situation.

Since then not once have I feel that 22mm is too stiff on public road. There is nothing I hate more than a severely understeer pushy car, which all manufacturers set up their FWD cars safe for the distracted drivers.

Now with a few thousand miles later on roads and on track I am extremely pleased that I went with a 22mm. The Swift spring is considerably stiffer than stock so you result may vary. I cannot say enough how well the car drive on the roads. If I get more seriously into track, I might get more aggressive adjustable camber plates and stiffer springs. Right now I feel the setup is a good compromise between two uses.

 

Great info! You sold me on the 22mm bar!

 

I am running a 03 R53 in DS autocross and must stay with stock suspension which means no camber plates, I run a Hotchkiss 25.5 mm hollow bar in the rear set in the middle to help the Copper S rotate. The car is on Bridgestone RE-71R's which are very sticky for a street tire and do work well in the stock class, I run 4 lbs over the front tire in the rear so depending on the place and course I generally run 34 in the front and 38 in the rear, pressures are changed based on tire roll. The Mini is purposely designed to under steer to keep the average driver out of trouble while pushing the Mini in the street, a thicker bar on the rear will help the Mini rotate in the corner and with your camber plates it will help the car from a severe push to mild oversteer depending on how hard you are driving the car. It is up to the driver to control the oversteer with throttle inputs as shown in the previous video----meg72 knows what he is talking about so listen to what he has to say.

 

as long as you get an adjustable you can tune out smoe of the busy in the rear if you dont' like it

personally if I bought a bar today it would be the hollow hotchkiss

 

With both an autocrosser (I have a link below to a good autocross video) and a track guy posting here some questions:

1.) How much does entry speed impact under/oversteer going into a high speed sweeper? Lets say entry speed over 90 mph.
2.) How much does entry speed impact under/oversteer going into a switchback on a tight course? Lets say entry speed around 45 mph.
3.) How much does the stiffer swaybar impact autocrossing, do you spin out without the stiffer bar?

Tires and air pressure aside and talking dry pavement. I ask these questions as IMO what some people consider aggressive driving others consider moderate. Not going to even get into heel/toe or shuffle steering.


https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...orsen-lsd.html

 

entry speed is not really relevant IMO, weight transfer is, slow in with weight transfer or fast in with weight transfer both are moving weight to the front, increasing grip there and decreasing grip to the rear, your contact patch moves to the front and if you turn too hard the rear will step out.

I do 15 autocross events a year, and I've spun out a handfull of times with a rear bar, but never without a rear bar. It's tire dependent too, my rs4's step out gradually and I dont miss a beat but my re71's will snap and I spin so fast there's little chance to recover.

Every time I've spun it was a initial run, front tires warm up fast the rear dont, the grip difference along with weight transfer, well you can do the math.

Here's one where I set some workers running, first run of the day, i was not the only car to spin out there

 

You have asked a few tough questions without a lot of input so I will yield to meg72 as he has more experience on the track with the Mini than I. In the autocross game the bar does help a lot but it also depends on the class you are in and the tires/wheels that are allowed as well as suspension----baring tire pressures the thickness of the rear does help considerably----in a stock setup with a thin bar(stock) the car will push in the turns which is the slow way around autoX. The thick bar works well in the stock class but to make it really affective other parts come into play. You can make the Mini spin in certain situations which include but limited to crap hard tires on the rear and a grippy tire on the front. Rapid throttle changes are another way to get it to spin as in instant throttle lift from full throttle accompanied by late braking while still hard in the turn. Go to your local autocross and give it a try----you will learn more about your Mini there than you will here.

 

I am very satisfied with my current set up. The questions I posed are for those that are thinking about mods, in this instance suspension. I was on a recent mountain run with a bunch of MINIs and even in stock form their cars handles very well. IMO most people in daily driving do not enter turns at 90 MPH but many will enter a freeway cloverleaf on-ramp at 45 MPH, hence the questions.

This is all good input, the question is how many will read the thread?

 

what mountain run was that? I missed it, I'm going to the mini sleeping dragon event again this year

 

Do not want to be on the opposite side of the road when some wannabe racer is coming toward me in a turn with a new setup that they have no idea on the handling impact. Mega72's response on how many times he spun out without the heavier bar is what I was hoping to get from the questions I posed.

 

Late spring BRP Tour with Tarheel. Had a Justa, a Clubman and a Countryman with us and as I said before, they all handled quite well in stock form. The Justa was being driven by a Nascar STIG and could he make that little car go.

 

I just got back from 3 weeks of NC and eastern Tennessee, mostly motox/trail riding on different mountains but enjoyed some of the great road offerings. Your Mini as set up will be great in the hills----with your camber plates and stock rear bar with run of the mill street tires you will be fine----you will not be in a situation to spin as long as you maintain speed to stay on your side of the road. Unless you have a bucket full of track time or auto time you will be safe----your Mini should not be stepping out on you. You may want to go to an autocross and find out what your car is capable of when pushed. I just noticed that you are running a rag-top----I am assuming you have adequate roll-over protection!!!!!

 

ahh ok I missed that one, was it a fun drive? Some of those events the cars yo-yo so bad my wife gets sick

 

Leaving the better-half home this time. It was not the dragon but there were some great roads. IMO the uphill runs are the best with good old gravity helping you slow down. Lots of yo-yo.