No i did not slide into a curb! There was a hard corner involved to avoid a road hazard, followed by some oversteer, (controlled I might add ....whoooo.hooooo, ) traction in the back was minimal and was suddenly and abruptly strongly restored, a rear wheel "hop" and a "clunk" was experienced. I didn't notice any problems shortly thereafter, only an increase ability to oversteer, with freakish ease in the same direction.....likely b/c of a bent control arm giving me + camber.....then I went over the enterance to my driveway a little quick last night and a big...thud...crunch.....and grind....this is what I found.

Naturally not covered by MINI warranty...was told it was b/c of a road hazard....and that part has never failed and shouldn't fail unless "unnaturally traumatized"...(kinda true) But c'mon....any ever experience wheel hop from sudden traction restoration from a real wheel slide? I have stock Pirelli run flats, stock suspension and a RDR sway bar on the stiffest setting.

Total 400+ dollars later at mini for the total.. The part, (which I could have gotten free from a friend who replaced his, won't be installed...used parts), a 4 wheel $$$$$ MINI alignment and labor..... Guess i could have had it towed to a unknown shop, driven 90 min one way to my bud's house for the part, driven back...make sure I know or can find someone to install it...and then get an alignment.....all of which would take me a full day and a half of my precious time.....oh well...you play...you pay....

Would love to know if aftermarket contol arms are that much stronger? Anyone have the wheel "hop"?

 

I would fight the dealer on this. No way should that have failed. From what I can see, the arm looks like it had not been abused, bent, scraped or otherwise weakened. I would bet that upon very careful examination, you or someone with a trained eye will be able to tell where the failure started and how the crack propagated. The part probably had a flaw in it and this is where the failure started.



I have seen control arms that have been really abused and still did not fail.

 

It looks like it failed because it was a flawed part. If you have the part you can take it to a person that knows about metal fatigue. It doesn't sound like it failed due to misuse. It really should take more than what you describe to cause failure. If you struck something solid then that would be different.

I have the H-sport lower rear adjustable control arms and they are quite solid and about the same weight or heavier than the stock arms. I never have trouble with them but then I am very careful about how I drive.

I think the part should have been covered under warranty. A metal engineer's written opinion of what caused the failure and a threat of lawsuit to cover the cost of replacement might change things in your favor.

 

Well, I'm the friend who he can have the arm from.

The offer is still good, and I'll drive the arm over TONIGHT (Friday) if you want me to. I can do the install in your driveway bud. It will take 20 minutes TOPS. I did all 4 of my RDR arms in under an hour. Just buy me a dinner at Fuddrucker's. :-)

The bottom 2 arms are a piece of cake, just 2 bolts and you're done. Now, I seriously doubt you need an alignment (much less what THEY want to charge you) because when I put the RDR arms on I got an alignment because I wanted to adjust it for Autox. But it was dead on. You may want to have it checked just in case something else is bent like the uppper arm or something like that but I really doubt it. FYI, my 4 wheel alignment where I had him adjust it to my liking was 75 bucks.

Now, on another subject. I agree that there is NO way this should have done that. When I talked to you on the phone I thought it bent a bit but it looks like it's been cleaved in two! You didn't break the bead on the tire, right? Even with the run-bricks one would think that the bead would pop before an arm would snap like that.

Call me...

-J

 

It broke right at the hole. I suspect a crack started there. I would go back to the dealer on that one. Holes are a great place for failure.

 

I would take Mjolnir up on his offer and just fix it. Life's too short and it sounds like you have a simple out. Not worth the hassle of trying to prove it broke because of a defect as I'm sure that would cost you more to have a specialist look at it than getting it fixed by the dealer. You shouldn't need an alignment the replacement parts should be exactly the same.

 

Kind offers, but it looks like he already did the fix.

I agree that this should be a warranty issue. If it was caused by a "road hazard," i.e. hitting something solid then it seems like there would be other damage such as a bent rim. If it breaks from avoiding the hazard then that seems to be a manufacturing or engineering defect.

God luck!

 

If it were me, I'd suspect it didn't break during the hazzard avoidance. It was probably damaged before that and just started to fail after that incident. Has it ever been towed? Those guy's like to strap or hook on those lower control arms. Also, has anyone else driven the car? I'm sure a reverse into a curb or parking block would put alot of stress on a lower control arm possibly damaging it without damage to the wheel or tire. No way it would have broke without some sort of damage that may just not be apparent to you. Could have been damaged before he got delivery of the car.

 

Thanks for the offer Jim. Next time your out my way....Fudruckers on me ..:smile: just for the offer.

I would have taken Jim,( Mjolnir) up on his offer, but there I was stranded at the Dentist yesterday, a few hrs before I had to be at work and the car was in the process of being towed to MINI. I knew I could get the used part from Jim, (Mjolnir), but they (MINI) wouldn't install a "used" part. . Nor was I interested in leaving my car where it was, get the part, then try to install with the tools i own...a pliers and a hammer.

The tire, rim etc, has no visible damage.....like i described...a slide then sudden traction-----> thud----crunch....etc as above. ****EDIT...never towed, backed into anything....etc....

Originally, Mini wanted to charge me an addition $180 or so to replace the fender liner as it was scratched...apparently no visible damage from the exterior and not even through the liner from what was described to me by the Service guy. Naturally, I told them I could live with a scratched liner. This morning I told them not to do the alignment and if needed I'll take it elsewhere.They charge $180 for that too.

Should I have aligned anyway somewhere else. Thoughts?

I plan on fighting with them regarding warranty issues when I go to get the car today. I agree that it will be expensive to fight with them,(hiring a "metal engineer expert" whatever that is, attorney, my time...etc...) but I think this part shouldn't have failed. If they deny my claim where do I go from here?

When I told them I plan to fight them on the warranty issue and I will need my failed part....they are not sure if they still have it....and will look for it.... Aren't dealers required to give you back your used parts?

Wish me luck.

 

"Shot down in flames" AC-DC.

Well, not covered under warranty I'm told. "you must have hit something", "we've never seen that before, only on cars that have been in accidents", "do you race/ autoX the car?"
(they also had never seen the front seat buckle receiver not latch spontaneously. That happened with my car....that was replaced under warranty)

I should add that there is some minor curb rash on that rim and when that occurred I have no knowledge, but i've seen it for some time. There is no obvious new abrasions to the rims or tires and those that are there must have been so insignificant, because I don't recall an event.
No one drives my car 'cept me....
Hmmmm, could innocent "curbing" cause a bend to the control arm which was aggrivated by my driving style to cause failure?...Hmmmmm

The replacement piece has the same holes, but they are filled with metal. My advice...go look at your control arms for evidence of minor bending/stress fractures.

I included a couple more pictures of the ruined piece. Happy viewing.:smile:

Now it's off to MINIUSA to file a complaint. Anyone with experience in these matters let me know your thoughts.

 

I just checked mine and they are holey (just like yours) but are crack and damage free. Are they aluminum? If so, seems like an odd application for stamped aluminum.

 

Is what aluminum? the new one?

 

Usually you have to request the old parts before they begin work if you want them back. If you go back later or ask after they have finished the response you received would be common.

 

Some fights aren't worth fighting, not because you don't have a good claim, but because there are only minimal damages that could be awarded. The time and expense involved in attempting to litigate something like this isn't worth it to you, your expert nor your attorney.

Put it down as one of life's lessons, get a used replacement, or better yet upgrade to H sport or RDR control arms and get on with motoring.

 

Sounds like you should lodge a complaint with the National Traffic Safety Council. I see this as a safety issue. The part sure seems flimsey. Maybe it's happened to others. This may be why BMW is not conceding fault, since a recall could result which might be costly. I wonder if the part has been updated/improved.

 

What kind of road hazard were you trying to avoid?

kmickey

 

All four of the rear control arms are simple steel not aluminum. They are made cheaply and aren't really the strongest design. Just functional.

We have quite a few MCS that do light track and autocross and don't have any problems with the lower rear control arm. Might be worth asking Randy Webb at Webbmotorsports.com if he has seen anything like this.

The pictures show the arm was bent and twisted then fractured. A microcrack in one side of the arm would be enough to compromise the stiffness and allow twisting.

An alignment would run about $90 and take about 100 minutes by a brake and alignement specialty shop. The reason for doing it is when a part brakes and there is damage it is possible that the rest of the alignment got thrown off from stock spec settings. Thus toe might be different on one side and that needs to be realigned to allow for proper handling and tire wear.

Even though the dealership hasn't seen this problem before is not grounds to deny that it be covered. Obviously the part failed so now they need to figure out what might be the cause. If you don't know of any object that might have been hit then a defective part is also plausible.

 

Why do you think you need a four wheel alignment?

 

To answer some questions......Went back to the scene of the oversteer slide, wheel hop, thud etc....no road hazard found...I'm not sure what i was seeing that night but the ground was moist, but not covered with standing water.

I DO know that there was dramatic oversteer....a wheel hop as stated above, which likely caused a bend in the control arm. There are some small abrasions on the rim, that I believe were there before, but the exact number of them I'm not sure.

I would think that the lateral force needed to bend a control arm would be reflected in some sort of tire/wheel damage. I've included some images of the rim and the visible "scuff" marks. Naturally the "service manager" at MINI pointed out those marks and said I must have hit something to damage the control arm, again that they had never seen this before, so naturally it was my fault. I was left standing there....keys in the car...having not paid the bill...for a moment I was tempted to drive off. But I paid the bill, took a mint and drove off....

I will be contacting MINIUSA and the National Traffic Safety Counsel this week and whoever else will listen to report this. I do not expect to get anywhere with this...but it is a safety issue that if were to occur again with someone else's car could result in dramatic and disasterous results with loss of life and/or property.

On another couple points. The service advisor...also wanted to replace the plastic wheel well liner...He told me there are NO visible marks externally and that the wear did not go completely through. I cannot find it, but I think there is a scuff felt behind the wheel beyond my view. I'll look next time I remove a wheel. The also wanted to do a 4 wheel alignment which I declined for what there were charging and will get one elsewhere if I note any vibrations or abnormal tire wear. They wanted a total of $630 +tax for the entire proposal...I paid 337 with tax, as I declined the alignment and wheel well liner.

So far...not even the slightest vibration It "feels" dead on.... so far I'll hold on the alignment.

 

One more rim pic, and that is the extent of any visible rim damage.

 

Do you use an automatic car wash?

 

No automatic car wash for me! Always rub my baby down by hand. Never been towed before either.

 

I put on my H-Sport Comp. bar yesterday and, took a close look at my rear lower control arms. I seriously doubt they would bend and brake the way yours did just by lateral force. I'd suggest that you must have hit something that hooked the lower bar. It was more than compression that did that damage.

 

I just wanted to tell you that I did the same thing to my car. Make sure you check the other lower control arm on the other side, cause I bent and craked the passenger side, and if you look closely, my drivers side arm was also slightly bent. I too brought it too the dealer and they denied it as a warranty claim. I just bought upgraded solid control arms and put them in myself (only took about an hour). Of course, I was at Pocono Raceway when it happened and my car has Springs, a 22mm sway bar (also on the stiffest setting) and Falken Azenis, but I didn't hit anything either. I was just taking a left hander (pretty hard of course) when the rear end just broke loose and I spun two full rotations (thank god there wasn't another car behind me). Anyway, sorta glad to hear it happened to someone else too, although I'm sorry it happened to you, i know what it's like.

 

It is possible that your over-corection caused the inside rear wheel to left off the ground and then suddenly come back into contact with the ground. It is possible to lift the inside rear wheel in a stock MCS during hard cornering. A 22mm rear bar will make that an easier task.

Michael