Sorry, this is a long story but I really would like to know if I am way off base in my assumptions or was the dealer just being a jackhole?


I went to the Mini dealership yesterday after doing lots of research on the 2014 Countryman S All4 on here and elsewhere and was planning on leasing my first Mini that day. I saw that Mini had a promotion on the front page of their website where you could lease an All4 for $224/mo. http://www.miniusa.com/content/miniu...tml#all4-offer


Obviously, I knew that I wouldn't be able to get it for that low and knew that it was a marketing tool to get people in the door, but I figured I could probably get something for around $300/mo. When I got there, I found a nice All4 w/6spd, cold weather and the leather/cloth seats which MSRPed around 30.5k. The salesman was nice and friendly, and made it seem like he was very interested in getting me in this car.


When we got to the negotiations, one of their finance guys took the place of the salesman and we starting to talk lease. They were willing to take $2700 off MSRP, apparently bumping the negotiated cost of the car down to $27,750. After all of the apparent fees, our final cap cost came in at $29.5 (with a $2845 down payment) with a residual of 61%. All of this seemed reasonable to me and I expected to have a quick and successful deal.


However, this is where things turned south. After 15 minutes or so, the finance guy came over with a sheet of paper with all of the apparent numbers on it, but when I looked at the monthly payment is was close to $400! I was quite shocked and indicated such to the finance guy, saying that while I knew I wasn't going to get $220/mo I was not expecting a price almost 2x. I asked for some clarification to the numbers and discrepancy and was very sharply told that the number on the website does not include various dealer fees and taxes, which were what bumped up the price. I was skeptical of this and asked if he could tell me the money factor, since it had not yet been mentioned. He went back another finance guy, and 15 minutes long minutes later came back saying it was .0017. I was wondering why they would run these numbers without even bothering to check my credit rating and after filling out the necessary paperwork he went away for another 20 or so minutes to run new numbers.


Finally, he came back with a revised MM of .0165 and the overall monthly rate was not much lower. I was starting to get annoyed at this point, especially since BankRate.com and LeaseGuide.com calculators were showing my payments around $300-$310, as well as my own math on scratch paper. This is when the first finance guy arrogantly told me that web based calculators were very crude and were no where near being accurate, as Mini has "sophisticated and very complicated software" which calculates their lease rates. I told him I didn't think this was true at all based on my research and he bristled and ran off to check with his "manager."


This back and forth went on for some time, him leaving to talk to the other finance guy, the mystery man behind the curtain, being gone for 15 min, coming back with a number around $370/mo and saying that the online calculators were wrong while copping a bit of an attitude. Finally, after 3.5 hours I had had enough and said that this is not going to happen, got up and left. On the way out I saw the salesman and he wanted to know what happened, so I told him that their numbers were way to high based on my calculations and research. Never once throughout the process was I asked by the finance guy what number would it take to get me in the car, or that he wants to make this happen, it was almost like he didn't care one way or the other whether I took the car.


SO, were my numbers and research that unreasonable, or was the dealer just trying to pull a quick one on me? I was there with my wife, who didn't want to sit and wait, so I feel like the absurd waits were purposeful to try and get me to bite. And he never adequately explained how their rates were so much different than the Mini website, other than generic descriptions of taxes and dealer fees. I really did like the car, but their apparent dishonesty really turned me off to the Mini brand and unless I really am in the wrong, I don't think I will ever go back.


Long story short, went to lease my first Mini, and dealer came back with pricing at almost 2x what my research had indicated. He was very dismissive and I felt like he didn't care whether I got the car or not. After 3.5 hours, I left feeling very dissatisfied with the Mini brand in general.

 

Memory to hear about your experience, we purchased our MCS4 yesterday after 3 days and lots of haggling. I can tell you that yesterday they were offering 500.00 purchase credit and 1250.00 lease credit on the 14 S All4. Also the finance director gave us an additional 500.00 for being current BMW/MINI owners. Sounds like they are padding the deal.

We ended up purchasing. I would go back and ask about the lease incentive of 1250.00. From what we were told yesterday
This was a national incentive and not just Las Vegas.

Good Luck!

 

After 6-years, I recently did an "offload" of my R56 "S" model because of all of the problems. I thought leasing would be a good alternative as compared to buying my next MINI. This was based on the price listed on the internet. To me a lease seemed logical (until now)...enjoy the car for 3-years, then turn the keys in and wash your hands of the car and the expensive problems that will creep up in the future.


However, it sounds like the dealer you went to wants to play Ring Around the Rosie.


Maybe my MINI days are really over...because I will not own again. Thanks for sharing your experience.

 

I've walked out of dealerships when the salesman has gone to talk to the manager and ended up spending 15 minutes talking about their last company picnic leaving me setting and wondering. It speaks badly of the dealership and their practices. I would go to another dealership and if there wasn't another MINI dealership in my area I'd shop a different car.

 

sorry to hear about your experience, i'm looking to lease a paceman s myself but fear the same thing, the 214 they quote is not actually what you will pay, from mini's website, there's a little #16 caveat which reads:

 

sloring, that $224 monthly payment is for a MC with the MSRP of $24000, yours cost $30500. It is appox $20 for every $1000 extra in MSRP. Take into considering of tax and fee, the $370 sounds about right.

 

MINIUSA.COM:

$224/MONTH MINI COOPER S COUNTRYMAN ALL4 LEASE

34 months
$29,445 msrp less $2350 in credits
$18,550 residual
$3,699 due at signing includes first monthly payment, $2,750 down payment, and $725 acquisition fee
local title fees and sales tax not included
assumes excellent credit history

The dealer can write any lease they want.

 

I went through the leasing process a few months ago. The base price is $224, then you need to add any options you want and the taxes to that monthly amount. I got out the door at $299. Tell them to start with the base lease price of $224 and show you how much the taxes are and how much for the options (remember you should only be paying 61% of the options due to the residual, plus the finance fee). I did have to pay 100% of the stripes as those were put on by the dealer and had no residual associated with them.

The key is to tell them to start with their advertised deal. If you don't, they use their standard leasing rates and it is not as good.

Also, go with the 15K miles built into the lease, if you go over, it is much cheaper than going with 12K and then paying .15 cents per mile overage fee.

At the time I bought mine, it was $239 a month for a $29K sticker vehicle, with $3K down.

 

Just proves....
Leasing a car is just a bad deal....even for a short time...
Folks often forget to negogate the purchase price of the car...and it is calculated at FULL RETAIL...dealers love this...they make money on the sale....
Then folks often underestimate the miles per year needed....gauarenteeing a HUGE bill when the car is returned....then excess wear fee's, then they get to resell the cars...and they are making $$ on the interest/fiance fees in most cases....and then they get warrenty work....
Sounds like dealers LOVE financeing leases....and they just say "this is the deal...take it"...
Any car that deaprecates at a rapid rate is a terrible Car to lease....the $$ paid is for the loss of value...
10 years ago, mini DID hold their value and lease rates were great....today...not so much...
And every magazine that comes out saying "MINI- one of the top 10 used cars to avoid" makes it worse....the gen2 cluster (carbon, timing chsins, etc) Will keep paying dividends(to other makers) for years to come.....

 

ZippyNH,

I understand what you're saying, but if I had a time machine and could go back to 2008 and knowing what I know now there would have been no way that I would have ever purchased my 2008 MINI Cooper S Hatchback.

Leasing would have been the best option for me. I won't bore you with a list of the problems; however, they all started after 36,000 miles and ended up costing me thousands of dollars and caused a lot of grief.

At 3-years my 2008 "S" was still reliable, in excellent condition, and had less than 36,000 miles. I should have leased it and turned in the keys at the 3-year point.

 

Bingo....Dealer was not fudging the #'s...OP should have strongly consider the $370 deal

 

Thats a very broad generalization thats not true for everyone...For those with a business, those who like a new car every few years? And as you point out, the car brand can matter too..

It some cases it makes much more sense to lease vs the depreciation hit at trade-in. My wives Lexus RX is a perfect example of a vehicle to lease given the mfgr subsidation and high residual.

Leasing (like purchasing) means as a buyer your better arm yourself with the right metrics or prepare to bend over - just like buying...

 

Mini Wisconsin,

My thought process exactly, I bought a 2006 BMW 530 xi as a CPO off a lease in 2009. Had electrical issues and should have dumped it when the warranty expired, kept it too long and paid the price. This time around I went for the lease, $300 a month is in the right ballpark for a car of this caliber.

 

No, it was MSRP of $28K, not $24K. The fair price is right around $300...

 

$30.5 is what the op claims is the msrp

 

As I posted this morning, the $224/month offer on MINIUSA.COM for all to see in detail is for a $29,445 S ALL4.

 

The OP should be able to get that same car for about $245 a month now not including tax and fees.

 

First off, you never put money down on a lease. Ever.

Secondly the OP was right to walk out. When fini guys and managers start getting shady, walk. They get aggravated because most people buy cars like they buy fast food, and have no clue how the process works. Leasing is worse, because 99% of people don't understand it, even though it's 3rd grade math. "Sophisticated software"? LMAO.


"Dealer fees"? Lol. A car purchase it sale price + doc fee + tax. THAT'S IT. There are no other fees, at all. Ever. EVER. Leases are the same, with a bank acquisition fee (that I see dealers trying to mark up these days).

Of course you won't get advertised monthly payments, because they include lousy mileage and a down payment (which you NEVER pay). If you can't afford the payments without putting money down on the lease, you can't afford to lease. But 2x your own math is absurd, and when they start playing with the MF, it's time to go. That's how fini guys squeeze money out of you. It's even more shady because it's often at the expense of the sales guy too. They take money off the sale price and bump up the MF.

Anyway good for the OP. I was talking to a sales guy last weekend at my local dealership and their used car manager gave me an embarrassing number on my trade. Same sort of attitude. The brand is quickly becoming a joke.

 

I suspect the $2845 down payment in the OP really means cash due at signing. You do pay title and sales tax in addition to agreed value when purchasing a car. You also usually put money down on the agreed value. If you do not want to pay this up front you increase the risk for the bank and your rate goes up accordingly whether you are purchasing or leasing.

Here's what I get for monthly payments:
MINI offer for selected car without fees and taxes: $253
dealer offer without fees and taxes: $289
MINI offer with my dealer and California fees and taxes: $301
dealer offer with their fees and California taxes: $378

 

Leased our 32.5k sticker all4s on 3/27. $3300 down 36 months $286 month and 12k miles a year. Mini of Peabody was great to work with.

 

Thanks! That's the straight poop!

 

if you guys think this price is crazy you should hear about the $485/month quote I got on a 2013 Fiat Abarth. LOL

 

Yeah, I was referring strictly to "capital cost reduction", not total due which includes tax, title, bank aqui etc.

One thing I forgot to mention is that unless you have perfect credit, leasing isn't for you either. I'm not say that's your scenario, but not putting in cap cost reduction should NOT affect your money factor. At all.

 

$750 lease acquisition fee? Yikes!