**UPDATE IN POST #22**

Hello All,
I need some help/advice. This is long but I want to tell my whole story.

I have a 2008 MC hardtop with about 61,000 miles. We had some awful cold that hit our area early this past week (-18 degrees with a -50 degree windchill). After sitting for about 36 hours untouched, on Tuesday I started it- it started VERY rough and a yellow engine light that was half filled in came on along with my low tire light (tire light did not concern me). I called my dealer and spoke to someone in service and they told me they've been seeing a lot of cars come in with that from the cold and to just let it run for a long time before driving because the engine had reduced power. Um, whatever that means but OK. While I waited, I googled it and of course it brought me to some threads here. Seems as if that half engine light could be related to a number of different problems.

I then called another Mini dealer in my area (about 35 miles away) and told them my car's symptoms and the half engine light and they said that it sounded like due to the cold temps, moisture got into the system and froze. Said they had quite a few vehicles at their dealer in with the same problem. Its unfortunate they are not my "local" dealer because I trust them more (different company) than my local dealer. I will explain this later.

So back to Tuesday- after letting it warm up for about 20 minutes, I left for my errand, pulled out of my street and I had trouble accelerating. I freaked out, turned around and came right back home and turned it off. I asked my husband to take it for a spin around the neighborhood to see what he thought. When he started it up again, the only light that came on was the tire light and he said it seemed a little sluggish but it drove fine.

I called and the soonest my dealer could get me in was Thursday because they were swamped. We pulled it into the garage and left it till Wednesday. Wednesday rolls around, I start it and it started fine. Window light showed up.....? Not sure why since the windows are fine. Drove to work (3 miles) and the car was fine. Wednesday evening after work, I turned it on and it started ok, not great but ok. Engine revved up to nearly 2000rpm on its own and then the actual CEL (yellow) went on. WTF? Let it warm up about 10 minutes and then drove home. Car seemed fine.

Thursday morning I go out to start it to go to my service appointment and it started VERY rough again (like it did Tuesday) and the damn half yellow engine light came on again. Regular CEL was still on as was the tire light and window light. I gave it a little gas and it sputtered and almost completely died out. Let it run for 15 minutes and then had to go. I ended up being late for my service appointment because I had to take PARKING LOTS all the way over there (fortunately I live a few miles away) because my car couldn't get past 30 mph. The one busy street I drove on, I had to put my flashers on. Oh and by the way, I had my 6.5 month old infant in the car with me during all of this. Splendid.

When I got to my dealer, I told him everything and he said the same thing the guy at the other dealer said- sounded like moisture getting into the system because of the cold and that most of the cars that have come in, had this same problem.

Now it gets interesting. Dealer called me yesterday and said that the diagnostic exam showed that I need a new timing chain and tensioner and all the stuff that goes along with that. Nothing on moisture issues. Quoted me $2300 which is ridiculous. When I asked them what this had to do with the cold, they said "nothing". Excuse me? My car was running perfectly fine and all of a sudden, I start it after extreme cold (the coldest this car has ever seen), it sputters, barely turns over, has all these engine lights that flash on and my repair has nothing to do with the cold? I asked about the half engine light and the reduced power thing. They said nothing is showing up on the exam. He kept saying, "yeah, you know that rattling you hear when your engine is running when its cold? Yeah, it was your timing chain." Um, I've heard that rattle since day 1 and my car is nearly 6 years old and I haven't had a problem. I told him that I am going to have to think about it and I hung up.

Now is a good time to mention that I do not trust my dealer. I have never been able to get a straight answer to anything from them. Every repair I have gone in for before my warranty expired had to be brought in to be fixed more than once and every repair that has been done after my warranty has been extremely costly. They try to sell me maintenance things that do not have to be done. In March, my CEL came on (after some revving like this time) and they said my thermostat needed to be replaced and that it was going to cost $800. After agreeing to the repair, I then get a call a couple of hours later, saying that now my radiator also needs replacing because its cracked and that total, my bill was going to be $1800. WHAT? I got all their codes and called that other dealer I mentioned above. Gave them the codes, said what the problem was and they quoted me $1200. BIG difference! I called my dealer up and told them that another dealer quoted me less and that I was going to have my car towed there and guess what? They came down to $1200! Unreal- I didn't realize this was a game. I then did research on this thermostat thing and saw that it was an ongoing problem (like the timing chain), so I called MINI about it and told them about the shadiness of my dealer and the price differences and how I thought it was ridiculous that customers are having to pay for a part that was faulty to begin with. They ended up reimbursing me $600 of the $1200 I paid. Score!

Now here we are with yet another faulty part and a $2300 bill 9 months later. I am about to get on the phone with MINI to discuss because I found this thread last night. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ng-chains.html Of course, my dealer did not mention such thing to me. Is this extended warranty by MINI on the timing chain really in effect?

If MINI does not cover this repair, I am done. Literally. I have $1100 left to pay on my car and a $2300 bill. I'll see what I can get for it and am trading it in for a completely different car. It breaks my heart (especially if my last drive in it was as shi**y as my last drive was) but this whole thing is completely absurd.

Thank you for making it this far and giving any advice or thoughts.

 

Why would you patronize a business that you don't trust? Don't do business with them. There are many options of where to get your car serviced including independent shops and a different dealer that is only 35 miles farther. It's worth the drive for the peace of mind.

I understand your frustration and definitely look into the timing chain campaign. The timing chain is not something to ignore though. That noise you hear can be because the engine is direct injected and is different than the death rattle. Some companies like Cadillac use a bunch of sound deadening material in the engine bay to reduce the noise.

 

I agree with you but I unfortunately was not able to drive 35 miles on all expressway to another dealership considering my car wouldn't accelerate past 30mph. Especially with my infant in the car with me :( And I agree, ignoring at this point is not an option.

I just called both dealers and spoke with a SA and they were aware of this issue but no one had any idea which cars it covered. One dealer said only S models, another dealer seemed to think it was only 2009 models and later. According to everything I've seen in this forum about it, my 2008 should qualify.

 

It's absurd that they can't give an answer on what cars are affected.

Do you have roadside? I have it through MINI but I also have it through my insurance (USAA) it costs $8.50 per YEAR so I kept it because it's so cheap. That way you could have just gotten it towed.

 

So, what are you going to do?


Driving it that 35 miles might damage it considerably....why not have it towed to the other dealer, then let them go to bat for you with MINI to get the chain covered?


You need to get it fixed no matter what you do with your car - keep it or trade it.


MINI seems to be covering the timing chains on a case by case basis, if your car has been serviced regularly at the dealer, and you've changed oil regularly and have rec'ts, I think the chances are good that they'll cover it for you.

 

Another failed exchange with the stealerships.. good luck with your MINI and would be very sad to see it go.

 

I know this sounds bad but I have no idea what the deal is with my roadside. I know if my car needs to be towed, my insurance (State Farm) will cover it, however I have no idea what they'd do in a situation like this (having it towed elsewhere when its already at a dealer). Will check on that. In the meantime, I have an Enterprise car since my dealer ran out of loaners. I have to consider that too since MINI is currently paying for that loaner.

Sad to say, I've already made the decision to trade the car in after this. I simply cannot afford to pay these kind of repairs. This is my second very costly repair in 9 months. If I paid/pay the quoted prices for both repairs, thats a total of $4100 which I calculated out to be one full year's worth of car payment at my current rate = not worth it. Granted I was able to strike a deal with MINI on my last repair and I will see what I can do with this one but I shouldn't have to negotiate outrageous repair costs every stinkin' time I bring my car in.

With that said, here's my question though- why do I need to fix it? Say MINI does not cover the cost and I talk them down $500. I now have an $1800 repair bill that I am going to pay right before getting rid of it? I'd rather take the hit in the trade in at this point than take a huge chunk of $ out of my savings.

If MINI covers it I will of course get the repair done. Will also have to see what my SA says on Monday regarding a goodwill discount of some sort.

 

And for the record, I have cried (yes, I'm such a girl) for the past 3 days thinking about the possibility that this might be it. I figured this day would come soon (with a baby, eventually needing a little more room, etc) but didn't think it would be this soon. I just love this car.

 

$2300 for a timing chain replacement, that's almost twice as much as I paid for my 2007 Mini Cooper S timing chain replacement ($1600)! Why they are quoting you that much I don't know, everything is a game with dealers. If you don't complain you don't get reimbursed, you have to speak up to get it! I know it's sad, Mini had a lot of horribly engineered parts that soon become repeat replacements some three times over. Most of these parts are made from plastic, thermostat housings, main water pump, valve cover etc.

Sorry to hear of your troubles and hope everything works out for you.

 

If you trade it to a non-Mini dealer needing major engine repairs (has that been diagnosed for sure at this point?) they will hit you for a lot more on your trade in value than the cost of the repair as quoted by MINI to you. The MINI dealer is not under any obligation to give another dealer the same deal they cut with you.


They may decide to tow it to their dealership and fix it there, but what if they find it out its something else, or something more wrong with it than has been assumed at this point? Since they're assuming the risk they will ding the trade in value of the car accordingly.


You're in a tough spot, but I think I'd pay to fix it, see if MINI will cover it for you and then trade it in once it's all sorted out.


As to the term "stealership", I'm disgusted that people still think this term is acceptable or cute......how would you feel if you were called a thief online when you've done nothing wrong?


The dealer has not stolen anything from anyone, if their price is too high or you just can't afford it, don't use them.....take it to an independent, do the work yourself or take it to another dealer that you feel is more cost effective. Stop with the perjorative terminology, it's no different that using a racial slur to all the good men and women who make an honest living working at car dealerships.

 

go look at and drive (if you can find one) a Ford Focus ST

mind you ... only the ST

handles better than the MINI by many accounts and at LEAST as well ... if you are a doubter\\ read the reviews

4 door ... 250HP turbo'd ... all leather recarro with all the toys they offer will be under $30k ...
price out an S to get recarro seats . . .

 

Stealership is an appropriate term, they are always higher than other shops and parts suppliers. And they usually try to milk you for additional repairs. I would call Mini USA customer relations, give them your VIN, they were very helpful with our MCS. Good luck.

 

No it's not.


Just because their price is higher does not mean they're thiefs.


Otherwise how would you justify all the high end department stores, or the cost of a Lamborghini? Are they thiefs too, just because their goods and services cost more than you want to pay?


The term is wrong, and the use of it on this forum is wrong.

 

Dave I agree with you. But you are not going to re-educate all of the internet experts.

Stealership is a stupid saying. When I read that saying I just consider the source.

 

Well this is what I am worried about and had a minor panic attack today thinking about it. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop with these people. They called and told me their diagnostic test showed that the timing chain is malfunctioning and that the tensioner has been stretched. I'm just waiting for them to go in there and find other things wrong. That's exactly what happened to my last repair. I brought it in for the engine light and the computer showed that my thermostat was faulty. I agreed to the repair and then got a call 2 hours later saying that the radiator needed to be replaced as well. ANother $1000 added on, just like that.

I have found an independent mechanic through some friends who they absolutely love and trust. They have sent their families and other friends to this guy. First thing in the morning, I am going to call my dealer and demand a print out of exactly what their computer is showing and I am going to bring it to this guy and say, providing there are no other repairs, how much would you charge to fix this. I feel like I have nothing to lose at this point.

I am going to call MINI and see what they can do for me once I have the said print out in my hands. Also (assuming I choose this route) I am planning on calling my insurance to find out that since my car is technically not driveable, if they would cover a tow to this other mechanic and would they cover the cost of a rental car since Mini will obviously discontinue paying for it once I take my car.

 

Actually test drove one back in March when the hubby was in the market for a new car. It was a nice car- Ford really stepped up their game with that car. He ended up getting a WRX instead.

I'm looking into the Nissan Juke Nismo. Took the Nismo and the regular model Juke for a test drive last night. Hubby had two Nissans before his WRX and had no troubles with either car, both cars totalling 300,000 miles. First Sentra had started showing signs of transmission issues at 150,000 so he traded it in for a new Sentra Spec-V. Then after 6 years, he got t-boned at 140,000 which totaled the car. Otherwise he was going to try to push for 200,000 with that one. As for the Juke, I was more impressed by how it drove and the handling than I thought I'd be....

 

I don't understand why you think they would pay for you to tow your car somewhere else?


They won't, nor should they.....


If you've never had the chain replaced I would ask MINI USA for a goodwill repair on it - they've done so for a number of people.


So, they're saying the tensioner is causing the problem? Do not drive it another foot - if you haven't done major damage to the valves or the engine internals already I'll be surprised.


I think your best bet is to stay on MINI USA and see if they'll help you. In order for that to happen you'll need good service records showing the car has been maintained properly....oil changes done regularly using the right weight of oil and the correct filter etc.


One other thing you could do, ask the MINI dealer to give you a firm bid on buying the car from you, then you'll know exactly what it's worth in it's current condition.....then make your best move from there.....

 

I never expected Mini to pay for a tow to a different mechanic. I called my insurance to see how they would handle a situation like that and they told me that yes, they would reimburse me for a tow (regardless whether its already at a dealer) to another location.

The SA who called me on Friday mentioned timing chain and had thrown the word tensioner in there. Mind you, other than the research I've done in the past 2 days, I know nothing about any of these parts, what they do, etc. I spoke with my SA this morning and he said that the CEL's code showing up was the Variable Vanos Fault which has to do with the timing chain being stretched out. I asked if anything else was showing up or if the technician saw anything else and he said no. When I told him I was going to be contacting MINI headquarters about this repair, he said he was going to contact them himself to see what they can do. He said he will try to get the part covered or mostly covered. I'm going to let him try for this and if the news I get back from him is unacceptable, I will call them myself.

Worst case scenario, asking them to price out the car is a good idea. Thanks for the tip!

 

How's this one.. I brought my car in for a suspected HPFP issue for a misfire. The service department comes at me with a big blanket fix costing over $2000. All plugs, all coils, all injectors to be cleaned, new intake manifold, valve cleaning etc etc.. I asked them what their diagnostic process was that lead them to that conclusion. The service adviser said they just hooked up a scanner and pulled the codes(which I had already done), and they moved right on to recommending the $2000 worth of service. They did not try to find the actual cause of the actual problem, just skipped straight to "let's just replace everything. **** the customers wallet"

I diagnosed the problem myself recently as ONE bad coil. A coil went bad... that's it... $35 part and 2 minutes to fix. "stealership" not taking ANY time to actually track down a problem and just trying to milk the customer for an insane amount of unneeded repairs.... I could call them worse. I couldn't imagine if every shop or business operated that way. No diagnostic at all, just throw EVERY fix at it that MIGHT be causing the issue at the customers expense. That's complete BS.

 

^ I had a similar experience with my dealership. So calling them thieves is quite adequate.

The first and only time I brought the car in for a recall I was also sold a $700 brake job, new rotors and pads all around.
I know it's over priced, I was suckered in, we all make mistakes, too expensive in hindsight blah blah blah whatever.

On my way home, the car started making grinding noises when on the brakes, took the car back and they realized that they put on the pads backwards.
Awesome.

A week later when I did my own oil change I found wires coming down from the brakes with green clips. Upon some Googling, I realized that they were brake sensors.
The dealership mechanics never plugged them back in when they put the new brakes on.
Awesome, again.

After I called them about their mistake, they asked me to take the car in, obviously.
And the mechanic that did my brakes was on vacation.
So they asked if I tampered with the brakes at all. Which I answered No.
They were very suspicious of me because they adamantly believed that their mechanic wouldn't have made such a mistake.
And they said that my pads are for some reason leaving abnormal markings on my brand new rotors, and could cause warping.
I will need to machine these rotors, which now has approx 60miles on them. And I will also need new pads.
All for a smoking deal of $400.

Thanks, but no thanks.

After that ordeal, I was out of words other than to reduce my dignity to that of a internet nay-sayer and begin calling them a "stealership".

 

jaxsngrl. It's good that your SA seems to be working with you on a solution you can live with. Hope it works out for you.
As for the two unscrupulous dealerships described above. . . I can't argue with your assessments. I'm just glad they're not local to me.

 

**UPDATE**

My SA came through! Said he spoke with MINI and they approved my repair on the spot! Repair was approved on Monday and I got the car back yesterday. Didn't want to post anything in fear of jinxing the whole thing.

I'm not gonna lie.....the car starts and runs better than ever before. It must have been such a gradual process that I never even noticed. The vroom it gets when it turns over and the pep it has when I accelerate.....WAY different.

To say I am relieved is an understatement.

 

Glad to hear a great outcome. Motor on! Your diligence and research paid off. Thanks for sharing.

 

Very happy for you.

 

Alright that's what we want to hear and more often!