Replaced my 17" Team Dynamic wheels today with some stock 17"s and the top of the rear wheels are really tilting inward. Is this normal, do I need an alignment now or did I majorly screw something up?

 

>>Replaced my 17" Team Dynamic wheels today with some stock 17"s and the top of the rear wheels are really tilting inward. Is this normal, do I need an alignment now or did I majorly screw something up?

This is called negative rear camber and is common in MINIs. A stock MINI has about negative 1 to negative 2 degrees in the rear, while front negative camber is about -.1 to -.9 degrees. The front cannot be adjusted much at all and the rear is the same except if you add lower adjustable rear control arms- then you can easily increase or decrease rear negative camber.

To adjust front negative camber you need camber plates that mount on the top of the shock tower which can adjust the position of the top of the shock thus affecting negative camber in the front.

For street driving the stock settings are fine and a little negative camber in the rear is OK at about -1 to -1.5 degrees. It WILL look tilted in a bit with no one in the car and be more tilted in with a full load. The negative camber helps to allow for better cornering at high speeds. But it may wear the inside edge of the rear tires if overdone like -2.5 degrees or more negative so be sure to rotate tires every 3000 to 5000 miles as needed to reduce this problem.

 

Thanks for the response Minhune. I had read up on the negative camber, but since I didnt' notice it with my Team Dynamics, this was quite disturbing.

It also seems as if one wheel, the passenger side, is tilting more. I re-mounted the wheel several times with the same results.

Does this still sound like negative camber?

I posted a pic over on Mini2, but I'm not sure how to here.

 

>>Does this still sound like negative camber?

Yes it does.

Your stock MINI will come with negative camber of at least -1 degree which you can see but it is small.
Adding team Dynamic wheels does not change negative camber unless the wheels are alot smaller outerdiameter than your stock wheel.

You will get more negative camber by changing your suspension such as lowering springs- did you do that? If so then you are likely greater than -1 degree. When I installed H-sport springs I went to -2.4 degrees and you could easily see than the rear wheels were both tilting inward at the top.

If you have rear adjustable control arms you can make the rear negative camber anything you want. I choose - 0.75 degrees which is less than the -1 degrees for stock. I have a very smooth ride which still corners well due to my springs and rear swaybar and aftermarket wheels/tires. I would suggest -1 degree as being a good place to be if you do an alignment.

 

Yeah, I have some AC Schnitzer springs. I didn't really notice anything with the Team Dynamics, but it sounds like it's just more noticeable with the S-spokes. I'm probably going to swap back within a few weeks anyways, so I doubt I will do an alignment.

Just wanted to make sure there was nothing wrong. thanks!

 

Your lowering springs are causing the increased negative camber.

The Team Dynamics rims and tire combination is of a size and width (even if the tires are the same size they do not all measure outer diameter the same as that may be affected by the width of the rim on the tire itself)that may fit better and reduce some of the negative camber whereas the stock wheel doesn't-maybe because it is a runflat tire.

Doesn't really matter you can still drive on more negative camber. If you feel the MINI is not handling safely then align it but if you lack the rear adjustable lower control arms then forget it, you won't be able to get much adjustment in for the rear.

When you do alignments it is based on the tire you have on your MINI. If you switch wheels esp to different diameter rim and different sized tires everything can change. Just something to keep in mind if you use 17" rims for street driving and 15" rims for autocross. That is why there are front camber plates and rear adjustable control arms.

 

Thanks Minhune.

I stopped by the local BMW dealer this morning for another issue and while there, I asked them about this. Keep in mind this is not a Mini dealership, but they indicated my alignment was off and I needed a KDS.

So you're saying that if I don't have an adjustable lower control arm, I'm not going to see much improvement in the rear? I want to make sure they're not charging me for something that won't improve the situation.

 

I can't see how changing your wheel should alter the camber.

Perhaps the shape of the two different wheels accentuates the look of the camber differently or something. But if simply changing your wheels literaly altered the camber, I think you may have a problem.

If you jack the car up, change the tires, and then put it back down, the suspension will usually be "jacked up" by the ebrake holding the rear wheels from turning. You need to release the e-brake and let it "settle" before doing any alignment measurements/observations.

anyhow, good luck.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that the only setting that's adjustable on MINI suspension is front toe, unless you've added rhe aforementioned camber plates or adjustable control arms. If you have a noticeable difference in camber from side to side, barring bent or damaged components, one of your springs has settled more than the other. Have the springs been on long? Some settling is common, but it should occur evenly. Without adjustable suspension components, an alignment won't do anything but lighten your wallet. I spent a few years under the alignment rack. A fancy four-wheel alignment on a car without adjustments is robbery. Setting the front toe only (likely all they can do, and also having zero effect on the rear wheels) shouldn't cost more than $20.
Best - Bodinski

 

Thanks for all the responses and good info. I was lucky enough to park by another MCS today with the same wheels, just not lowered. Surprisingly, I couldn't tell that much of a difference between the two. Both seem to have the same amount of tilt, so I guess I have nothing to worry about. I'm going to cancel the alignment as it seems the car is driving ok and it doesn't sound like it would do much good anyways.

Thanks again for the help.

 

Yes, for all those thinking about alignment. If you have stock wheels and stock suspension then no alignment is really needed. My alignment shop says they can adjust a little toe in/out for the front and rear, maybe a little camber in the rear but not much. They said not much caster adjustment in the rear possible even with upper control arms.

If you want to change and adjust-
Front negative camber then get camber plates for the front.
Rear negative camber then get adjustable lower control arms for the rear
Rear caster and toe- then get adjustable upper control arms for the rear (at least that is what the manufacturer says) but it also helps with adjusting rear negative camber.

You can do a little toe in for the front/rear with a four wheel thrust alignment. Maybe a little less if you drop the MINI.

Bottomline is if your handling is OK and tire wear is OK then don't bother. If you are doing autocrossing and want a little more fine tuning then add camber plates and rear control arms and do an autocross alignment.

If your MINI after lowering is not handling well and is rough riding then try for an alignment especially if you have lower rear adjustable control arms as you can reduce the -2.4 degrees camber and bring it back to about -1.0 degrees.

_________________
MINIlani home of Jasmine Trias

 

>>I can't see how changing your wheel should alter the camber.
>>
It doesn't, A more agressive offset causes the camber appear more obvious.

Alex