Hi,

I have a 2009 Justa Classic that I bought from the dealer as a Mini Next. Still under warranty until the end of December. It came with 15" wheels and almost new Nokian WR G2 All Weather tires. The problem is when I drive to work. The highway I drive on (I96 in Michigan) has sections of asphalt and concrete. The concrete sections are grooved. When driving on these concrete sections the car seems to have a slight to moderate "wiggle" from side to side.

Initially I thought it might be the tires. I ended up buying 16" rims with Kuhmo Ecsta 4X tires. Guess what. The "wiggle" is still there.

The kicker is that I have been driving this highway for 3 years in a 2009 Clubman without any "wiggles". Therefore I put the 15" Wheels from the Justa on the Clubman and drove the same highway with no "wiggles".

Took the car into the Dealer to have the suspension looked at and explained the issue. Dealer said that the suspension is fine but the alignment was off so they fixed it for free. The car still "wiggles"!!!

So, my question is what can I do next? Does anyone have a similar experience. I know this is not normal as my Clubman does not do this however it does have the sport suspension.

Any help would be great.

 

wiggles as in the car shifts/wanders left to right constantly? or a vibration in the body, or steering wheel?

 

So, you swapped tires from either car, and you know it's NOT the tires.
However, note that if the alignment was off on the Justa, and tire wear pattern could be giving you the issues.

Regarless, I think you're back to checking mechanical parts on the Justa, like wheel bearings, suspension components, and the engine cradle itself.
You'll want to remove any slop in the suspension and connecting components.

- Erik

 

He said he changed his wheels and the wiggle is still there.
Put the wiggle wheels on another mini and they didn't wiggle on that road.

I'm experiencing a wiggle, don't know if it's the same feeling OP is getting. But I changed my lca bushings on Saturday and I'm getting some inconsistent and hard to diagnose issues.

 

Thanks for the comments. A little more information about the "wiggles". I would say it feels like the back end twitches. I know, all these technical terms! Most of the time it is not bad enough that you need to correct with the steering but on occasion it does. Does not give you a good sense of security of your connection to the road. On asphalt it is fine.

 

It's the grooves. I've experienced it too. Asphalt, like you said, is fine with me also. I experienced it too in my Acura 3.0CL with low profile tires.

 

I have experienced a similar sensation with my MCS on some grooved sections of highway. I have always just attributed this to the very short wheelbase of the vehicle.

 

You are probably just experiencing 'trammeling' or 'tramlining'


Funny. We call it tramlining the tendency for the car to follow imperfections in the road. You can Google the term and find a bunch of discussions about this in various car forums. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=47

My 02-S was owned in a place where my commute took me over two open grate bridges and a long stretch of grooved concrete higway - the car would dance all over the road on these surfaces. The only worse experience I had along this line was the first time I rode a motorcycle over an open grate bridge .. OMG ... almost lost control! There is probably some very complex math formula that ties wheelbase to wheel size but all I know is my 02-S demonstrated this to the EXTREME - on 17" S-lites and the Pir' run flats. When I changed to YOKO tires the issue dropped by 75%. My 07-S has never demonstrated this trait, and is on 16" .... and my 79 on 10x6 doesn't either. But then again there's no grooved concrete or grate bridges around here!

Basically, larger diameter, wide, stiff tires tend to exhibit this issue more than others.

New tires will not nec'ly fix the issue, but some tread patterns deal with this better than others.

From TireRack site:

Unfortunately anything that increases a high performance tire's responsiveness also increases its willingness to tramline.

 

My 07 cooper s does it as well and so did my BMW M3. Its really annoying, when you are riding a motorcycle. Not sure if you can get rid of it.

 

Usually it's more a factor of the tires, I know my winter tires do it terribly, but it's something that occurs because of the tread.

 

I would agree with this if it wasn't for the fact that the same wheels and tires do not do it on my Clubman.

Also, the 17" wheel and tires that came on the Clubman did not do it either. It feels more like there is something wrong with the car because of this difference. Otherwise I would agree.

 

I've had this too but usually when driving in sport mode on the grooved concrete section. I know the feeling you are talking about. It's very slight wiggle but it is a bit strange when you first notice it. I think it is the low profile runflat tires and the short wheelbase like the others have mentioned. Hasn't really been to much of a problem.

 

MI native here, longtime sufferer of MI roads: it's the grooves - my Justa does it with my 15" snow set up and 16" summer set up. SO's VW Rabbit with 17" as well. Nearly every freeway here has sections with grooves in it and that's where you notice it and hopefully can alt route around it.

 

My MCS has the same issue on a small section of I-5 going through Oceanside and at first I was attributing it to wind, but I'll have to check out what the surface of the highway is in that area. At least I know it's not just my car now.

 

I would have thought the same thing if it wasn't for driving my 2009 Clubman on the same roads for 3 years without the "wiggles".

Wondering if a better rear sway bar would help since my Clubman has the sport suspension package and doesn't have this issue even with the same wheels and tires?

 

Dude, I swear NO ONE is reading your original post, or any other post you make on this thread. I don't know what the problem is but, if you figure it out lemme know.

 

Actually we are... The Coopers and MCS are known to trammel on roads like that. What he is feeling is fairly normal and there isn't much he can do except slow down. I have felt this very thing with my 06 MCS of roads that are grooved. Some are worse than others.

What tire pressure are you running? You might try running at about 35 PSI to see if that helps.

 

...how did you come to that conclusion?

Seems that many replies have blamed it on the grooved highways and it might just be that the design of the MINI hardtop vs. the Clubman (lighter weight, shorter length/wheelbase) is the reason that it's not felt in the Clubman.

 

I thought the Clubman and Cooper had the same chassis. That would make the wheelbase the same.

I have tried running 35 psi and even 41 psi with no real difference other than between Cooper and Clubman.

 

If the bushings are worn, it can make the groves in the cement worse....like tramling....tires are a big factor....
i have had cars in the past, some with good tires that don't play well with specfic stretches of roads...went away with new tires. But many mini's do have front end bushing issues...
Other mini's (THE CLUBMAN) is longer wheelbase, but any wheelbase car can wiggle....

 

I know you said you had the alignment checked, but did you see the resultant numbers? Can you compare them with the alignment numbers on your Clubbie?

 

well, I tried

 

No unfortunately, I did not see the number but they said it was way off. Funny since I bought it from them 1.5 months earlier as a Mini Next and was told they checked the alignment.

 

Yep, they simply choose to ignore.

 

If it is not too bad, I wouldn't drive yourself crazy seeking a solution. Some tires and suspension setups react very badly to certain types of grooved or worn pavement. It's a bit of a random thing involving the interaction of the two and chasing a solution will probably involve just trying new tires until you get one that works better. But drive this "better" tire under a different section or road with different characteristics, and it may be worse than the first.

I'd live with it.

- Mark