I thought it would be fun to see what options would be best on a no cost limit NEW 2013 “H-Stock” autocross build; all creature comforts aside that individuals can add for their personal preferences.

The first thing that came to mind was the new Recaro Seat option that was added in 2012 for better lateral support ($3000 ouch! Weight?). Looks like 15x5.5 “Hollies” are standard for 2013, so I left those in place thinking they can be used for some nice 15” race tires to begin the autocross adventure (can sell the new OEM tires and put that money towards a set of light weight 16x6.5 wheels with street tires for daily driving and as a future option for HS). Sport suspension or even the JCW’s suspension if it’s allowed (Is that what they are calling SS+?). It’s unclear to me if DTC is an advantage or not?

Is that the best H-Stock build that can be created when ordering a brand new 2013 Mini Cooper Non-S? How and why would you experience autocrossers change it?

 

DTC IS AN ABSOLUTE MUST HAVE, just for the eLSD.

Not sure about the optional suspensions and what they do for auto-x class, but I find the sports suspension to be fantastic for $500. It has been great in my 1st 2 auto-xs with it. The JCW suspension is $1500 for parts and the same for installation (~$3000 total; it is a dealer installed option).

The reviews of the new JCW seats are not that great. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ear-seats.html These are not the European JCW Recaro seats (which I have had). Again I like the upgraded sports seats with the adjustable lumbar support. I find them to be a bit narrower and sides are stiffer than the regular sports seat. Than add a Schroth Quick Fit harness. Fantastic.

Then make the allowed camber change. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ustment-2.html see post 44

Wheels...stick with 15" and get aftermarket wheels as light as possible with the most offset allowed and sticky rubber. There is no advantage with 16" and they weigh more.

 

I didn't realise that the DTC option was a Limited Slip Differential. Didn't think you could order a LSD on a base Cooper. Maybe that was only in the past (?). Wonder what it would take to install the factory DTC option "after the fact" at the dealer?

If 15's are better for the track, then maybe the full sport package is in order to get some nice daily driver factory rims and a few other goodies tossed in.

I'm not seeing many 15x5.5 rims out there (any suggestions?). Everything I've researched so far are 15x6.5 and wider. I found a few 16x6.5 +45 rims under 13lbs. I see Tirerack has the KOSEI K4R. The ROTA Slipstreams and Boost are likely light wieght as well.

Do you know if the Sport Package Option springs are the same as the Sport Suspension Option springs? Are they actually lower than the stock base Cooper springs?

 

The LSD part of the DTC is one thing which might persuade me to upgrade Tristan, I could do with that on the track. A mechanical LSD has never been an option on the Cooper, you can get it now its just software.The sport package doesn't include any suspension options. The sport suspension is different. I've never noticed it being any lower than the standard.

 

As far as options for HS, they have to be factory or port installed. Anything "dealer installed" is not legal in stock class.

Delete the sun roof for sure, delete the xenons, delete the nav system. Don't bother with the Recaros unless they are significantly lighter than stock. Fabric upholstery on the stock seat holds you in the seat and keeps you from sliding around. Combined with the the Schroth 4-point harness and you will not be moving at all.

As for the wheels, even though the 15" wheels would normally be the desired size, the factory wheels are only 5.5" wide and will seriously limit the selection of good tires and also limit the overall width of the tire that can be mounted. The 16"x6.5" rims will allow wider rubber.

Any sort of factory limited slip is a no brainer.

Don't bother to order "better" factory shocks as any after market shock can be used, such as the Koni Sport or the Pro Motion. Any aftermarket rear anti sway bar can be used so there is no point in ordering a smaller one from the factory. Make sure you know exactly what is contained in any of the factory sport suspension packages before you shell out any money, when better after market items are available and class legal.

Sport Suspension + was actually stock, in the USA, on all MCS from 2002 - 2006 on the hatch. The "+" package disappeared with the end of the R53. It is very difficult to find out about spring rates from the factory. If factory installed suspension packages offer stiffer or shorter springs they would probably be a good thing to have. Even if you will be changing the shocks and sway bars to better aftermarket pieces in the future.

 

Good to know. I'll have to inquire about adding that to my off-the-lot purchase in a way that makes it legal through the dealer.

I thought the Sport Suspension was included in the Sport Package with stiffer and slightly lower springs, but I could be wrong on that. Maybe that's only the Sport Suspension Option??? It's the springs and swaybars that I'm after, if they are an advantage.

 

Okay. That makes the dealer installed JCW's addons illegal for HS.

I have no knowledge about what the hot wheel/tire combinations are. IIRC from what I have read the fast guys are using 15" for the reduction in overall diameter and reduced weight. I guess there is a gray area when it comes to more rubber vs. less weight and diameter that can be agrued either way. Research needed here...



Should rear=FRONT anti sway bar? I thought only the front can be changed, but the rear has to be one of the factor ones, thus the Sport Suspension adds a stiffer rear one (I think?). Your point is well taken on understanding what you get. That isn't always easy to figure out, but I bet others here know the details.

 

I have no experience with autocross to date. This weekend I will be attending the MTTS Los Angeles MINIcross at the Rose Bowl. I was lucky enough to get a late day seat behind the wheel registered last weekend (It's full now). If I like it (hard to see how I won't), HS may be in my future starting with my current 2012 MCa ride to get some seat time.

It looks like I can purchase the Sport Suspension Option springs and rear anti sway bar from the dealer using my VIN number and mount them on Adjustable Koni Yellows as I progress, plus add the DTC option the same way (if it's just software?).

First will be rims and tires and wheel time. Don't really want to burn my daily driver All Season's up on the track.

So for a 2013 NEW build the must have essentials appear to be Sport Suspension Option (pending verification of what you get; stiffer springs and rear bar expected) and DTC only. Wheels probably best left as stock Hollies for a 15" rim option on the track.

But first I'll need track time and experience. Here's my upgrade list for my current 2012 MCa ride (I know, auto ) in order of priority:

1) Helmet and 4-point seat belts.
2) Wheels and tires (research needed...).
3) Suspensin adjustments (labor only)
4) Clean free flowing K&N type air cleaner.
5) Muffler delete (cheaply done with flanges to swap straight pipe in on track day or a more expensive proven performance enhancing Cat-Back system such as the MillTek, custom or ?).
6) Sport Suspension Option using VIN and Adjustable Koni Yellows all at the same time as a complete assembly so stock strunts can be swapped back on if I upgrade the car to a 6spd Getrag NEW model in the future).
7) DTC dealer upgrade using VIN.
8) ???

Are ECU "tunes" allowed?

As always, having fun is the name of the game!

 

Hmmm... Found this in another thread.

From this thread:
sway-bars-and-suspensions?

I'm pretty certain the JCW suspension upgrade does lower the car...

It appears the FAQ's here need to be updated to current rules. Can someone refer me to a list of clear cut CURRENT HS-Stock rules please.

Thanks.

 

BlackIce: You can download the 2012 SCCA autocross rule book (pdf file) at their website. Here's a thread addressing the 15 versus 16" wheel question:

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...cca-hs-ax.html

In brief, the '09 MC that won H Stock at SCCA Nationals last year wore 225/45/15 Hoosiers on 15" rims. I think 205 width Hoosiers were on the rear. Thus, Jim Feinberg (1st), Dave Spratte (4th), and Gwen Baake (2nd in HSL) did their testing on that MC beforehand. Most H Stock MC drivers stayed with the 16" wheels, however. My guess is that there will be a few more on 15s at Nationals this year.

That's for National-level drivers though. Since you've never autocrossed before, your own driving will probably be the biggest limitation. It's a steep learning curve, however, so you could be looking for those extra tenths of a second fairly soon.

 

Official SCCA rules can be downloaded / viewed for free here. Skip to page 71 for Stock Class rules.

http://scca.cdn.racersites.com/prod/...ry_reduced.pdf

Short answer: Locally, almost any Mini can be made competitive. They are great driving cars, competitively classed, right out of the box. A nice set of Hankook RS-3 / Dunlop Star Spec / Toyo R1R, and maybe a competition alignment will put you competitive in RTF (road tire stock index) class and on PAX in an otherwise untouched car. They're easy to drive, tons of fun, and reward proper technique, so the skills you learn from driving a Mini fast will help you drive most other cars fast.

Next step: Prep. Stock is stock only in name, it's a prep level. The goal is to use every allowance that will give you an advantage.

• Lightest possible cat-back exhaust that meets noise and exit position rules.
• Front -or- rear swaybar is allowed, so grab a large and light rear bar, like the Hotchkis Comp. It's hollow, big, and 3-position adjustable. This helps the car rotate much better, and also helps plant that inside front better to get out of the turn.
• Shocks. Koni Yellows are fine, or you can go big dog on some Ohlins or something. You can tweak them to speed transitional response, and alter balance of the car.
• Alignment. Do the legal camber mod, dial a little toe out up front and zero the rear toe, as a good starting point. Season to taste, some like a tighter car, some like a looser one.
• Wheels and tars. Ditch the OEM boat anchors for something light. See what top HS national competitors are using, and copy their setup. Keep in mind, if you're thinking HS, Hoosiers don't mind going wide on narrow wheels, but if you're thinking RTF, street tires need the wider OEM wheel option. Check the rules - diameter and width must match OEM, and offest must be within 1/4"
• Select a set of brake pads that have the feel you want, get a drop in K&N, pick a lighter weight gear oil, drain the window washer reservoir, etc. are some other legal things that you can do to various effect.

As far as option packages, none of them are a deal breaker locally. The E-diff is great, but the big rear bar will help keep the inside front down. The sunroof adds weight in the worst possible spot. Other than that, a few pounds of HIDs or leather is going to be more of a psychological advantage than one that can be measured on the course.

 

BlackIce:
First I suggest that you look up your local chapter of SCCA and see what they have in the way of autocrosses, which they call "Solo". They wrote the book on the subject and you can learn a ton from them. Around me they are the best group of car nuts you will find.

Here is a thread about the sports suspension:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...on-vs-jcw.html

Basically the sports suspension gets you stronger front and rear springs, larger front and rear sway bars and stiffer shocks. The ride height is unchanged. For $500 it is well worth the money. The stock front sway bar is not enough to keep the front from diving down in any turn and the front sway bar is a royal PIA to change. So starting with the sports suspension gives you a good base from which to make improvements. The rules allow you to change either bar, so why not get the largest front factory bar you can and then balance it in the back with a large rear bar? Get the large rear sway bar to give you more rotation in the tight corners and it will more than compensate for the larger front bar. Combined with the larger front sway bar of the sports suspension it is a much better setup than with the stock front bar. You get greater overall roll stiffness while reducing the understeer. While the sports suspension shocks are not the greatest, they are acceptable and will perform well enough untill you decide what to replace them with.

I will say that the above is only for a new car...unless you want to pay the expense to install the front bar. Otherwise, if you are just upgrading an existing car, get the sport springs and buy the aftermarket rear sway bar and shocks.

While I agree with most of what Burglar writes, I feel that he has overstated the benefits of the larger rear bar to keep the front wheels on the ground...It will help but it is no substitute for LSD, even the eLSD. Having been there with the large rear sway bar and no LSD, the car was very slow to exit corners and I was always fighting wheel spin. Even a Justa will spin that inside wheel. I now have eLSD and it is much better to drive. As I said before, I believe the DTC is a must have option. Here is a good discussion about the DTC:
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...n-control.html

As for a 6-speed switch...it has the wrong gearing for a Justa. The lower gears are too tall for that car and are there to take advantage of the high low end torque of the turbo in the S. Plus there are a lot of other things that need to be changed along with it which will make it very costly. There are a number of good threads on this subject here on NAM if you want to know more about it.

Lastly get a set of autocross specific front brake pads like the Carbotech AX-6. They have a lot of grip and don't need to be warmed up like a track pad. Stock pads do not have enough grip to be usable for the short run of an autocross.

I know this is only one person's opinion, but I hope it help. Glad to see the interest in this subject.

 

I did word that poorly. An LSD in autocross is a huge advantage. However, I have an open diff R53 - with a sunroof - and do just fine at a local level if you don't mind me tooting my own horn.

What's important for the OP to remember, is that autocross is about 80% driver / 20% car, give or take. It will be much easier to shave that next 1/10th of a second off by adjusting the nut behind the wheel than sweating a check box on an order form. It's easy to see someone faster than you with all the bells and whistles and think you need them too. When in reality, if that same person jumped in your car for a run, they would still beat you.

I may be off base, if you have been to the SCCA Nationals a few times and missed a podium by a few thousandths and have HIDs on your car, then you can totally call me wrong.

 

Toot away! And I agree.
No I have not been to the nationals; I just do it for fun locally. But I found it frustrating to drive my first Mini. Being an S the lack of the LSD was particularly noticeable with the torque it has. So when I bought my second S I looked for a few specific options that would help in both autoX and track. So far my experience with my new Mini has been really positive. Just my 2 cents for someone may be buying a new car and looking for option suggestions.

 

Thank you all for the great suggestions. Yes, you have been very helpful.

The Sport Suspension ($500) and DTC ($250) options sound well worth it and a base MC with them is $21,150 (~$23K OTD). Nice starting point.

@Eddie07S - When you mention the 6spd gearing swap being off, are you referring to the manual or the auto? (I currently have a 2012 MCa with nothing but Bluetooth & Armrest) IYHO is that auto going to make Autocross a lost cause?

Can't wait for Saturday's "fun run" MINIcross at the Rose Bowl in LA!

 

While I have not seen anyone use an auto at an autocross, I have seen MCS autos on the track and they seem to do fine without out over heating problems. They use them in manual mode, with paddle shifters. They are very quick. From what I have read, the autos are just as quick as a stick in acceleration. However, I would not do that too much as with any automatic, that kind of activity is hard on the bands/clutches. So, for your first few times out, I would think it would be ok. Run the course in manual mode, so it doesn't get "confused" and you should have fun.

As for the swap out, I was referring to manual trannies. I do see that the current Justa comes with a 6 sp manual or auto. Sorry, don't know when the change occurred. The theads I read on the subject were about changing the 5 sp manual with a 6 sp. But the 6 would have been out of an S, and that is not a good match. But now that they are putting a 6 sp in the Justa, I don't know how that would go if you could find one to swap. The best I can say is to search on here. Best way to search on NAM is through Google, just start with North American Motoring.

My advice to all new comers to autoX is to first walk the course with someone who has done autocross before then drive the course slowly for the first run or more (so the auto won't matter). The cones come up fast and the main objective is to complete the course without a DNF (Did Not Finish). So a slow time is better than no time at all. From there you will get faster as you learn how to read the course from the driver's seat at 50 mph. I have seen a lot of new drivers start out the day this way and by the end of the day they are posting really good times. Most of all, this avoids the frustration of not making it through the course and you get the enjoyment of success. Remember also, it is only your one fastest time that wins, all the rest of your runs are just practice.
Good luck and have fun.

 

Also, see if someplace around you sells CG Locks for your safety belt and get one before Saturday. That is the next best thing to the 4 point harness.
http://www.cg-lock.com/autocross.html

Or go to Amazon and have it shipped overnight. You will be glad you did.

 

This Saturday is a MINIcross sponsored event at the end of the MTTS. It's my understanding that MINI supplies the car, helmet and anything needed. Email confirm just says to bring a valid drivers license and show up 30 minutes before your time slot... (Hope I have that right?)

I'm guessing it is similar to what Porsche does for their annual event at my local Autoclub Speedway in Fontana, CA. You sign your life away on release forms and jump into a Porsche with an experienced shotgunner (possibly a trainer), then put the peddle to the metal and have fun.

Here's the Porsche Registration Page if anyone wants to take a Porsche for a spin!

 

The Justa got the 6 speed with the 2nd generation (R56) in 07. That's what persuaded us to swap our R50 for an R56.

 

Had a great time driving all the mini models on the little autocross track, but this has me questioning the normal size/length of an autocross track. Although not directly related to this autocross biuld thread, are these events indicative of the size/length of normal autocross racing? That was W-A-Y to short for me. I need more wheel time if I'm going to invest in a second set of wheels and tires, plus safety equipment and other little mod tweeks to autocross...

 

From my limited experience at such events, their courses tend to be shorter and slower than most SCCA AX events. My SCCA region's 2012 events have been about .5 to .6 miles in length according to my odometer, with the fastest times in stock classes averaging about 57 seconds; FTDs have averaged about 53 seconds. I don't know if my region's AXs are representative of SCCA AXs in general, however.

 

BlackIce - glad to hear you had fun at your event! That is what it is all about for most of us doing autoX.

Please don't give up yet on doing this locally. Our local SCCA puts 6 events a year, at several different locations. Each event is a different layout, with a course time in about the 40 sec. range, with 6 timed runs. While that may seem short, it is pretty intense.

At this point, if I were you, I would look up the local SCCA in your area and go to an event. Run your car pure stock; don't change tires or buy a helmet (if there are loaners). That is one of the great things about autoX, it can be done with no investment. Here is a video of on of our events:

 

All I can say after the MINIcross is holly throttle hesitation! That's got to be addressed before any serious on-off throttle short track racing is going to happen. I've seen some threads here addressing that, but haven't paid much attention to them. Will read them now that I've done a type of driving that can't tollerate it.

Oddly I thought the Clubman handled the best. There could be a variety of reasons for that: wheelbase?, tires, air pressure, suspension options, tune, etc... Is that common knowledge or just a fluke experience for me only? It has to be heavier and I'd think a shortter wheelbase an advantage in autoX.

I haven't given up yet. Tried to find an autoX event that was posted for El Toro in SoCal last month, but couldn't find it when I drove over there. Looked like most of the El Toro base has been scheduled for a "Great Park" development and fenced off. Couldn't even find a parking lot big enough to support it. Maybe I was in the wrong location or it just didn't happen as scheduled after all?

The next closest location to Orange County, CA appears to be San Diego's Qualcom Stadium (~2 hours away?) or possibly Auto Club Speedway out in Riverside, CA (~1 hour away?). They used to do autoX in the local Junior College parking lots years ago, but I couldn't find any scheduled nowadays. Wonder why nothing is done at Anaheim Stadium here in Orange County? Big parking lot there.

Will try searching for something local in "The OC" again to attend a real autoX event... Thanks all.

 

Plenty of autocross events are held at Qualcom Stadium, hosted by a handful of different car clubs. I found the following schedule posted at the San Diego Region of SCCA website.

7/15 (you just missed it), 8/12, 8/26, 9/30, 10/21, 11/18, and 12/9.

Since you're 2 hours away from San Diego, there may be autocross events even closer to you. Check the websites of any more local car clubs; SCCA, PCA, Corvette clubs, Miata clubs, etc.

Edit: The Cal Club Region of SCCA does autocross at Great Park (El Toro base). The next one is this weekend (7/22). www.solo2.com/eventcalendar.asp

 

Not sure about the hesitation. It is not a problem with the S. A little turbo lag if low in the RPM range. Did you try the Sport button? That will make the throttle more responsive.

The Clubman could feel better because there is likely more weight in the back so it is a little better balanced. But it is heavier, so it is likely slower than the hatchback. This is where springs, shocks and swaybars come into play and why I like the sports suspension. The base suspension allowed the front to "plow" too much. My current MINI sports suspension feels much more neutral than my previous one did with the stock suspension. Setup right the hatchback should be the quickest of the MINIs as it is the lightest.

BTY - I will drive up to an hour to attend an autocross...2 hours, probably not.