I'm new to MINI, and planning to buy a new MC/MCS later this year. I'm learning a lot from the good folks here on NAM.

I'm puzzled as to why MINI insists on run flats on all but the base cars with 15" wheels, when all I've ever read about run flats is complaints.

I see people find the run flats to ride harsh, and that the heavy weight of the tires detract from braking and acceleration performance.

I understand there's not a good place for a spare on the MCS, is that the main reason? With the lack of popularity I see here for run flats I wonder why BMW / MINI don't just equip standard tires and a repair kit / compressor instead.

At this point I'm leaning toward a base Cooper with holey 15's. Affordable and fun, with no need to toss the tires ASAP.

 

I think the 15s are none run flats because the Cooper comes with a spare.

 

Yea, I think it's for lack of space for a spare/compressor & repair kit

 

I like my run flats. I think there is a large variation in ride quality between brands of run flats.

I have Continental run flats on my MINI and they are not noisy or harsh riding. Run flat tires have stiffer sidewalls than regular tires so they have an advantage over standard tires, in that respect.

Still, I will put regular tires on my MINI, when the run flats wear out, because run flats are more expensive. For the cost of a new set of run flats, I can get new wheels and a set of standard tires.

Dave

 

Not only is it the brand of RFs but, I think it is all subjective. Mine were not loud(Dunlops) they were not harsh and they offered a pretty decent amount of grip. Just some people have drank the Kool Aid and just repeat what several people have said and now believe they are the worst thing since the plague.

 

I don't understand it either, it ticks me off actually. I had a bubble on my passenger front side tire and I just replaced it with a used tire since I'll probably need new ones next spring. I will definitely be running away from run-flats!

 

This prompted me to do a bit of research on TireRack.com. The stock RF's in 17" size (Conti or Dunlop) run about 21 or 22 lbs each. Looking at some of the popular non-RF replacements, the specs are listed as: Conti DWS - 20 lbs, Hankook Ventus V12 - 20 lbs, Bridgestone G019 Grid - 22 lbs, Michelin Pilot Sport - 20 lbs, Pilot Sport A/S Plus - 22 lbs.

Based on that, I suspect any "improvement" due to lower weight of a non-RF tire is a placebo effect (or the aforementioned Kool-Aid).

While not as numerous compared to all the people posting about what a great ride they now have with non-RFs, you may note that there are quite a few posters who get non-RF and pop on complaining about how squishy they are and how their MINI has lost the "snap" that it had. In all the cases of this that I recall, it is clear the poster did not understand some basics about tire construction and the trade-off they were making for a softer ride (again, probably back to that Kool-Aid).

From MINI's standpoint, using tires that weigh pretty much the same as a comparable non-RF, they avoid the additional weight of a spare. Yes, the RFTs have a higher cost, but that just gets marked down as part of the experience of buying a "premium" small car.

Finally, keep in mind that probably the overwhelming majority of MINI owners are not on any forums where discussions about RF vs non-RF occur. They get in their MINI and drive wherever, thinking the ride with the RF is just how it is supposed to be and it never crosses their mind they could change tires to get a softer ride. And probably a decent portion go back to MINI for replacement tires and don't give it a seconds thought to shell out "premium" money for new tires.

 

I despise RFTs due to the composition, ride, and all the other aforementioned problems.

However, I can say that not all are created equally. On my R60, I went with the Continental All Season RFTs on the 17s because it's a snow car. Actually, really nice ride, quiet, and wearing quite well.

On the R52, the RFTs it came with made me want to sell the car... Never really occurred to me to change the tires (durr) until last month. Threw on Hankook V12s, whole different animal - the extra grip is amazing.

 

Really? Some of the posters "hate" RF's. A little harsh, no? Just a bit self-righteous perhaps?

Personally, as part of the MINI bourgeoisie, I think RF's serve a great purpose for the masses. That is who MINI sells too, isn't it, the masses?

Convenience - I drive with hand controls in my R56S, stow my wheelchair behind me and appreciate the fact that if something goes awry with my Conti RF's, as it did last year crossing an expansion joint over Vail pass in a freak CO snow squall caravaning back with friends from AMVIV, that all I had to do was make my way down the mntn, pull into the MINI dealership and fix the problem.

Safety - RF's are durable. No need to get out and change a tire on the side of the road, in the dark, during a snowstorm..

Storage Space - Yea, for obvious reasons, my guess is MINI decided to save us the trouble of trying to carve out space for a spare in an already small car.

General Ergonomics - Small car, good gas mileage, sporty, convenience packages, etc. RF's are just part of an overriding branding effort designed to appeal to a very wide audience.

I have to laugh at every MINI owner who bemoans the cost of RF's, ride quality, tire life, etc. Really? Those same MINI owners are gladly dropping $$ for a suspension / coilover setup that's lower, stiffer, harsher by design. Not to mention, custom wheels, bigger brakes, and on and on, but can't justify $50-$75 premium for RF's?

Hey, MINI owners, their likes, dislikes and styles, are all different.
Embrace their choice, don't be a hater or so myopic that you don't recognize a broader perspective.

I deal with disability discrimination on a daily basis that would make most here crawl into a hole and never come out. Personally, I don't appreciate coming to a forum / thread that's offensive to MINI ownership, the choices made in car setup and driving experience .

After all, we're not driving Indy cars last time I checked..


Onward & Upward,

Chris

 

Chris, you make it sound like our dislike of RFTs somehow is a direct affront to you or your condition. That's actually a bit offensive toward some of us.

It is certainly not the case that we're attacking RFT users - I think the OP and subsequent posters were simply voicing their opinion on the negatives of RFTs.

You will find the lowest reviews in the tire world always apply to RFTs due to many concerns. That being said, if you need the reliability of not having to stop/pull over, there's no beating a RFT. If, however, you're demanding top performance, RFTs are really not your best ticket.

Many of us sacrifice reliability for performance, and those like you are the opposite. We're all a good mix here - if we all thought the same, there would be no reason for having a vast forum of differing opinions!

 

Chris Chappell;3515661]Really? Some of the posters "hate" RF's. A little harsh, no? Just a bit self-righteous perhaps?

Safety - RF's are durable. No need to get out and change a tire on the side of the road, in the dark, during a snowstorm..

Got rid of my RFs and bought as full spare, rides in the boot vertically and if I got a flat in a snow storm in the dark on a highway, Mini road side or AAA would change it. The ride is that much better...


I deal with disability discrimination on a daily basis that would make most here crawl into a hole and never come out. Personally, I don't appreciate coming to a forum / thread that's offensive to MINI ownership, the choices made in car setup and driving experience .

Yeah, me too... Doesn't mean that I can't voice an opinion, one shared by the majority of Mini Owners, from what I can tell...



Onward & Upward,
ABSOLUTELY... Wouldn't have it any other way...


Chris

 

Been quite a while since I been to the forums here. From my understanding the S model has run flats while the base model has/had a spare and a spot under the gas tank to hold a spare. At least in 2009 when I bought mine it was that way. I was told the reason was that the S has oversized brake pads on front and the stock mini spare wont fit on the front. Guess maybe they didn't want to engineer a new spare rim for Mini?? Also, I believe they said BMW was going to run flats as well. Maybe that explains the really crap ride in the last BMW I drove that they gave me for a loaner last time I had service.

As a FORMER run flat user though, I have to say the ride is 200% better though. I had both front run flats wear out recently. I was able to buy 4 tires, a spare, and a jack (BTW, after I bought a jack I lifted the carpet in boot up and sure enough, there was a factory jack there in my S that didn't have a spare) for about half of what run flats would cost me local. As said to, the ride is shockingly better, not just a bit better but whole new car ride better.

While I will miss the conv. level of run flats, I will never go back as well as ever buy another vehicle that has them with out negotiations to remove them or knock the price of a new set of tires off the vehicle.

 

I was going to get rid of my RFs, but when the moment came to replace tires, I stayed with RFs. Last year I replaced the 2 front RFs and will replace the other 2 this week.

I still toy with the idea of going non-RF though just to see how different they make the ride.

My husband thinks the RFs are safer and wants me to stay with them.

Something I do not understand though...
My clubbie S has an empty wheel well in the boot for a spare.Like Smurfe says, there's a jack there and everything, except the spare tire.

 

Don't have a strong opinion either way yet, but some of the posts by the run-flat proponents are shockingly melodramatic. We're talking tires, right?

 

I couldn't wait to get rid of my run flats. I found them very harsh riding and for me, they ruined the car. I have a 2009 MCCS (bought new) that I use for a daily commuter back and forth to work, on surface streets, with a medium amount of traffic (45-60 mins, 25 miles each way). I don't hot-rod the car, no mods (other than speaker upgrades) and I have stock 16 inch wheels. I'm too cheap to replace the tires until they were worn out, but was very happy to see them go.

I bought a spare (the Clubman has spare wheel well)...I already had the jack and the rest of the kit.

The car is much nicer to drive on regular tires. It is quieter and is so much less harsh, it's almost a new car. We've actually never taken it on a trip because of the harsh ride. Since replacing the tires, we've talked about driving it on a long trip. That's something we would never have done with run-flats....

We also have a Z4 in the family and we are switching that car over to N-RFTs as well. After dealing with BMW over the Z4 tires, I've decided that RFTs are just lazy engineering with good marketing. I don't like them, I don't think they are safe and I would rather have an obvious flat that needs repair than drive around on a "flat" RFT.

YMMV.

 

Spare tires on cars is quickly becoming a thing of the past. With the new mandates for gas mileage, a spare tire and wheel is just dead weight. Some manufacturers have dropped the spare and just provide a compressor and sealant .

BMW has used run flats on most of their cars for years and from what I understand, they tune the suspension for the stiffer sidewall. I imagine that when the time comes to replace my Conti run flats, I might opt for regular tires to see if I like a softer ride, but I certainly don't want to sacrifice the way the car turns in.

 

"To each their own."

This topic has been discussed thoroughly in Roundel over the years, and the reviews, both by columnists and readers, indicate that RFs are improving.

There are some people who really appreciate the extra safety factor. A letter-writer from the Chicago area talked about hitting road debris that ripped into two RFs but he was able to safely negotiate away from trouble. With non-RFs, he thought he would have had two blowouts and who knows? Any of us would surely appreciate not having to sit at the side of the road waiting for MINI support or AAA to show up, especially at night.

The most irritated writers seemed to be those who were out in the middle of nowhere when their RF was damaged and who wound up spending a couple of unscheduled days waiting for a new tire (or two) to get shipped and mounted; apparently damaged RFs need to be driven at lower speeds (50) and only to a maximum number of miles (100 is usually quoted). And sometimes the locals don't have the right tire mounting equipment either, so wheels are involved.

So when we got our CM All4, I decided to give the Continental Conti Pro Contacts a fair trial, which in my case was 1500 miles. I found them very noisy and unforgiving on rough roads, to the point that when I hit even a small pothole, the car jumped off track way more than I found acceptable. I also had concerns about the long-term effects of the harsher impact on the suspension. It could be that the RFs were just a bad combo with sport suspension, but switching to some relatively inexpensive Kumho LX Platinum tires made a world of difference in the ride, the noise, and the handling.

I carry a repair kit and a couple cans of water-based fix-a-flat, as well as a small 12v compressor. There is the MINI support and we carry AAA. My last flat (picked up a screw) was 5 years ago and it was in my driveway, where it was no issue to change. I can't remember the one before that on either of our cars.

I make a habit of visually inspecting the tires on our vehicles on Saturday mornings, and once a month I test the pressure to make sure everything is equalized.

It would be nice to have the option of space for a full-size spare and opting out of run-flats, but I understand the issues for the carmakers.

 

Run flats are lousy tires. While they may be improving according to some, so are non-run flats, ie., the gap is not closing. Mini should permit buyers to opt-out from getting run-flats at ordering time. Ditching my run-flats early-on was the single best decision I ever made for my Mini.

 

Ignorance is bliss I guess (speaking for myself ). I wanted "normal" tires but that was not an option on my JCW. So RF's it is. And I can say that they are MUCH better riding than I expected. I don't take my MINI in the snow or rain (use my other car for that) so I cannot speak for that.

I can say that speaking ONLY for myself I am happy with my RF's. However I cannot completely rule out switching to "normal" tires when they wear out.

 

I think it is becoming a trend. My first car with RF's was a 2002 Corvette. There was room for a spare technically speaking. I have seen other cars recently where a spare tire was an option.

My mom was a Cadillac fanatic in the 70's and early 80's. I like what they did then, a flat spare and can of compressed air, full size, but took up much less room. Of course If I remember correctly he 1984's air can was empty by 1986.

Michael

 

When I bought my '02 R53, it came with two sets of rims, the R90 alloys and the winter tires/rims shown in my signature block. I bent one of the R90's on the infamous Vail pass and bought a new R90 rim while I was waiting to see if I could get the damaged one straightened. (it's straightened and I can't tell there was any damage).

I have RF's (Pirelli Snosports for winter; Conti's for summer) and now that I have a new "spare" R90 rim, I think I'm going to try NRF tires when I change rims this fall. The R90 rims seem a lot lighter than the OEMs. Since I live in the middle of nowhere, having a spare ultra-high performance in the back (or in my wife's clubman!) I may get to enjoy the best of both worlds. Now I just need a bigger garage to hold all the gear!

 

Anybody seen this YouTube video comparing the two? It's a sporty car, the ride is going to be fairly harsh no matter what. If you want something soft and squishy Toyota makes a hatchback called the Yaris, check it out..

 

I know there are advantages to both types of tires...however, as a manufacturer, MINI has made the decision to go down the path of safety and weight reduction.

It is common to hear complaints and concerns over anything NEW....over time that item that is new and 'hated' will soon become the norm awaiting the next improvement.

Just do as you please and don't use the forum as a way to force your beliefs on others. We are all here to share knowledge and learn more about the cars we love (The MINI)

 

As far as the manufacturer is concerned, it's a no-brainer; any time you can get rid of the weight, cost and space associated with a spare, jack, mountings etc. it's a good deal. From the owner's (driver's?) persepctive, it's not so clear cut. I've had three different sets of RFs on BMWs prior to the MINI, and as far as grip and ride are concerned, they were decent tires. I think what some people may be reacting to is that there simply isn't as wide a range of performance options available in RF. Sometimes there are teething problems; the first set I had were the Bridgestone turd-anzas that became insufferably noisy within 10,000 miles. It was bad enough that there was a class-action lawsuit and BMW had to pay half the cost of replacements. The other problem was that even with half off they were still more expensive than "conventional" tires. I haven't heard of any repeats of that particular problem, so I wouldn't automatically steer clear of RFTs. Ironically, when I first test drove my '06 MCS it had Pirelli RFTs on it and with 22,000 miles on the clock I guess they were original. They seemed fine, but the dealer that was selling the car didn't want to sell it with them on - not enough tread I guess, so they replaced them with some non-RFTs before I picked it up! I'm OK with that, but not everyone would be. A final thought on the subject; if Bill Cosby's son had had runflats, he'd still be alive today.