The more I think about this the more I think it's probably a dumb question but, why doesn't SCCA have a class that appeals to the person who wants to improve their cars for the steet and drive them at Autox track but not require them to have race only tires that can't be used on the steet. There are lots of classes but none that allows me to use the pulley and run street tires... at least none that allows me to be competitive in that area. The only class that allows me to run the Pulley is SM but SM allows for R compound tires. I'd really like to see an SM steet tire class. Is it just me?

And what's the deal with allowing DOT legal "Street Tires" that are really tires that can't be used on the street? End of Vent. Thanks for listening.


_________________

 

I can see your point. In fact SM is considered a street tire class but for some reason they allow R compounds. Imagine STX where you can change boost, think about the other turbo cars that will run in the class and what kinds of numbers they would be putting down. We would see 400 hp WRXs and SRT-4s in the same leauge.

 

The history of dot "R" tires is a long story that I will not go into... also we will see how long the "street" tires in STS STX remain street tires... again a long story and I have alot of opinions and Bias in the the realm of tires...

Localy we get alot of people like yourself that want a place to play.. they have built their car how they want it..... without any regards towards a particular race class or ruleset... note: I have no problem with this... so we put them in the appropriate class... Novice at first but then whatever real class they fit into.. so like you know already the pully puts an S in SM (street mod)... actually you are lucky in that a few years back the same pully mod would put a car in E-mod or D-mod.. where the cars are little more than a formula racer with a car body on it... anyhow I understand your frustration... but if you want to be Competetive!!! that is the key.. once you are beyond having fun and want to try to win you have to build your car to a ruleset in a class where your car is competetive... the S will NEVER (sorry but it is the way it is) be competetive in SM at the national level... but it is in G-Stock or STX...

Soo you have a few choices... get a set of r compounds and stay in SM where at the regional level you can vie for wins... or go back to a stock pully and run STX where you can have a chance at near any level... ORRRRR buy a second MINI S or non S and run GS/HS ... where the MINI is seen as the car to have right now...

Autocross is wayyy more than just a hobby... to win you must be willing to make the sacrifices to do so... I have made many... but I still loose to much better drivers

I dont mean to be harsh but I get frustrated when people want to be competetive with what ever car they have with whatever mods they have... How many classes would we need to have a place for everyone to have a chance... most feel we have too many classes as it is....

Go out there and carve the cones... compare times to whoever you run close too regardless of class and have a dam good time doing so!!!!!

 

Amen Jason!

There are many mods I'd like to do but won't:

Pulley - SM
JCW Kit - ASP
Intake - STX (I run R-comps & ain't goin' back)

Once you leave stock classes (which can be expensive in it's own right) you really need to shell out mucho dinero to be competitive. If you keep modding to be competitive, then there comes a point where your car is not really street drivable. And that's what I really bought my MCS for. I found Solo II afterwards (this is only my second season). Now if I could only get my wife to see the light and become my tire-warmer...I mean co-driver...


-V--V-

 

Thank you for the replies. I use the term competitive lightly. I'm aware that the MINI is not going to compete against some other cars at the higher class levels. I also understand that to level the playing field in the stock classes we have to have rules to keep it competitive so it's a driver against driver competiton and not a car against car competition. But it also seems that the more mods you put on your car the more different kinds of cars get put together in the same class as you move up to more modified classes. In SM it's really not driver against driver but car against car because of all the different cars/mods that you can do. I don't mind that I just think, again that there should be a class that allows for true street tires only and i guess that was really my point. I think that there are alot of people out there that would like, as you said to;

"that want a place to play.. they have built their car how they want it..... without any regards towards a particular race class or ruleset."

So why isn't there a class to support just this? Me, driving my steet car off the street competing with other street cars with the street tires they drove in on. My issue is really about the tires I guess. Just seems odd to me that it doesn't exist.

My local Autox (that is not SCCA sanctioned) does this by having a Street tire Novice, Steet Tire experienced, Race tire novice and Race tire experienced. Steet tire is any tire with a treadware rating of 140 or higher.


_________________

 

Here in atlanta we do run a Novice class ... any SCCA region is allowed to and encouraged to have regional only classes to suit their particular needs... San Fran Region has alot of street tire classes... in Atlanta we do not... but we don't seem to have a need for them... you are right though SM is pretty wide open car wise... it is a new class and perhaps down the road it will be split up to group together similar cars... but that will take time.

Don't worry you will have fun!!!

 

With the explosion of STS and STX, you can expect to see more street tire classes from the SCCA. You can't unring a bell...

 

Street Mod=Wallet Racing

All the new SM/ST classes are in thier infancy as far as prep level, especially the SM classes. If it looks stacked against you now, wait until folks start showing up w/ converted GT1 cars.

Run what you brung and develop your skills, as they will be beneficial to you when you decide to "chase the class" and then up/downgrade the car accordingly.

On a personal note, I would rather have a competitive auto-cross car than a fun street one...

Ed

 

Well said Ed.

Look, in reality, your first post seems to ask for a class that's made for your ONE mod that does a lot for only the Cooper S (the Pulley), plus Street Tires. That's not very reasonable.

For any MINI owner to think the SCCA classing is unfair would truly be rediculous. What could it be that one would not like:

1) The MINI Cooper being the top car for H Stock, allowing shocks, DOT R compounds, exhaust, plugs, wires, coil, air filter, performance oils, and lightweight wheels?

2) The MINI Cooper S being one of the top cars for G Stock (which BTW was originally in D Stock and got reclassed), allowing shocks, DOT R compounds, exhaust, plugs, wires, coil, air filter, performance oils, and lightweight wheels?

3) The MINI Cooper being a good car for STS, and easily capable of winning locally, allowing everything Stock does (except R Compounds), STREET Tires, FULL suspension mods, MANY wheel choices, header/cat/exhaust, Intake, Camber Plates, etc.

4) The MINI Cooper S being one of the best cars for STX, allowing everything Stock does (except R Compounds), STREET Tires, FULL suspension mods, Limited Slip Differential, MANY wheel choices, header/cat/exhaust, Intake, Race Seats, Camber Plates, etc.

5) The MINI Cooper being a good car for F Street Prepared, allowing everything Stock and STS does, but includes Clutch, Flywheel, Limited Slip Differential, unlimited wheels, update/backdate (doesn't apply to MINI...yet), fuel injection/carburetor change, head work, etc.

6) The MINI Cooper S being a good car for D Street Prepared, allowing everything Stock and STX does, but includes Clutch, Flywheel, unlimited wheels, update/backdate (doesn't apply to MINI...yet), fuel injection/carburetor change, head work, etc.

7) Street Modified, in my opinion, is simply not a fair place for ANY FWD car to play right now, because there's a point where more power just takes away traction. Don't get me wrong, it will be very competitive, and could easily win locally, but will forever be outgunned (CAR wise) in SM.

...And finally, a gutted and modded Prepared MINI would surely be competitive wherever they stick it (hopefully in E Prepared )


Keep in mind, as said, there are many classes, including the new ST2 and STU (more street tire classes, they don't apply to the MINI though).

***Is it a little backwards to have a "Stock" class that runs R Compounds and a modified class (STS/STX) that runs mods but street tires? Yes, but that's the way it happened, most of us just determine what WE want to do. *****

At some local events, it's possible to run FTD in a STOCK MINI Cooper, with the right driver.
A Cooper S with a pulley and Street tires could win a local Street Mod class as well.

As the famous Ed Raymundo once said "I would rather have a competitive auto-cross car than a fun street one.."

Good Luck and HAVE FUN!!

Brian

_________________
2002 SCCA Pro Solo H Stock Champion/ STX Cooper S in 2003/G Stock Cooper S in 2004. Moderator: PRO SOLO and G STOCK
garfield@northamericanmotoring.com

 

BGarfield,

"Look, in reality, your first post seems to ask for a class that's made for your ONE mod that does a lot for only the Cooper S (the Pulley), plus Street Tires. That's not very reasonable."

No, not at all what I was saying. What I ment was that installing the Pulley or just about any other engine mod automatically dumps me into one class that allows for 'R' Compound tires. No car with true steet tires can compete with a car that has 'R' Compound tires on it. I think it's more of an advantage than the guy who has 200 more HP than me. What I was saying is that it would be fine with me if the Pulley put me into a class with Steet tires only and not allow 'R' Compounds or have two classes one that allows pulley or any other performance mods and requires street tires and have another that allows for 'R' Compound tires.

I know the MINI will have it's limits as far as being competitive, I'm not that competitive anyway, this is just for fun and it's just as much fun comparing how you did against cars and drives that you know should be better than you. It's just hard to compete when the guy with the Pinto Wagon with 'R' compounds just beat your MINI with Steet tires. You just loose your point of competitive reference when your not on the same tires. I just want to compete against other cars that I would find on the street with tires for the street. I want to compete against the Porsche 911 turbo, WRX, Honda Civic or whatever with whatever engine/suspension mods they may have but compete with tires that they would have on their car for the street. I could race these guys on the street but that wouldn't be safe. Id rather race them at the Autox track and see how we measure up. I'm not really saying anything more than It supprises me that this class doesn't exist but I guess the reason it doesn't exist is because it's not a level playing field for the true competitor who wants to win and not just to have fun. But at the local level this is what I see most of the people wanting. Again, it's a mute point because I get exactly this from my local Autox, but if they were SCCA I would be frustrated that I couldn't get this type of class.