I am interested in getting the Integral Audio subwoofer, but I have questions about the installation. Is this a project that I can/ should undertake?

I am reasonably educated, intelligent, and capable of cutting my food without instructions. But I have a healthy fear of really screwing up my car or finding myself unable to put all the parts back in the right place.

Any experience with installs? How did it go? How long did it take? How much does it cost to have it done by somebody who knows what they are doing? Any recommendations for somebody in the Philly area (MontCo area)?

Thanks.

Glenn

 

Its not too hard! I have never undertaken anything like this before and I did it with just a few emails to Kevin with some questions. I checked out the new instructions and they are improved over when I did it just a few months ago.

The key is to be prepared and to have the proper tools. Get a set of plastic trim removal tools (cheap at Amazon), and the few others noted in the instructions, and then just take your time. I went slowly and did it in a day. The only problems I had were related to the Mini, and not the kit. The plastic cowling that fits at the base of the windshield is a bear to get back on, and I dropped a screw down into a wheel well that took some time to retrieve.

It feels really good to do the job yourself, and even pros at install shops are going to have to read the instructions!

 

gshopper,

Rest assured we're here to help in any way we can. I'm happy to provide phone support before, during, and after your install. I'm also happy to help you select a shop if you decide you'd rather let someone else tackle the installation.

I think you'll find, however, that doing the installation yourself is not too difficult. Take a look at our installation instructions (R56 Hardtop or R57 Convertible) if you haven't already. They are truly comprehensive - every step you need to take to do the install is covered in detail, with photos. As white3 mentioned, just make sure you have the listed tools and you should be covered. His suggestion to take your time is also great advice. It has been our experience that no one else is going to care for you MINI the way that you will - and that is what really makes for a good installation.

Let me know if I can answer any questions.

 

I'm very comfortable w/ the Mini interior and wiring in general. But, I have already added the Mini supplied front speaker upgrade and amp kit to a 2010 base level stereo. That has improved the front a lot but leaves the back even more obvious it's south of the mark. Regardless, am I going to find since I am not at the "stock" level (even though it's a Mini supplied kit and wired 100% to their instructions (other than I put the amp under the dashboard because it has factory sat radio so the underseat box they wanted it placed in was "full")), that I may be 'outside of the standard play book' of your normal instructions?

 

The Alpine upgrade kit from MINI does not affect the install of our subwoofer system unless you have a R57 convertible AND both underseat areas are full. There is no impact for an R56 Hardtop.

 

The alpine system works great with the sub. I was able to install mine in about 4 hours with pretty basic tools and no help. Great instructions were included with the (very complete) kit. You can do it !

 

Anything available for R60?

 

No immediate plans for the R60. Haven't even listened to one or mapped out the existing systems. If there is an R60 owner in the NYC metro area that is interested, I'd be happy to take a look.

We will probably have the R58 & R59 covered. Beyond that, all the vehicles slated for development are non-MINIs.

 

The R60 needs an upgrade just as bad, if not more than the R55/56/57/58/59 because on top of not sounding all that great the transfer funtion doesn't help out the low end nearly as much.

 

Well because it is a bastard child, no one wants to assist in transforming it, so it will have to be custom...

 

If it helps, the R60 uses the exact same speakers and locations as an E90. That means same mids and tweeters as the rest of the MINI lineup but with an 8" midbass under the front seats. It might be a 6.5" like the base model E90 but the housing will also accomodate an 8".

 

Thanks....

 

I'm reviving this thread because I can not seem to find any information on the speakers under the seats of the Countryman?? Has anyone replaced these? I'm looking to replace all of the stock speakers on a non HK R60 but have not found anything.

Any help, links, or input appreciated.

 

I hope you guys make a system for the r60, I would buy it ASAP

 

Take the seat out and have a look. When I test drove I specifically looked and it looked EXACTLY like the rest of BMWs lineup so either a 6.5" or an 8", depending on which system you have, but both use the same enclosure and speaker mounting area. The 6.5" just uses a MUCH wider flange to fit in an 8" opening.

 

OK, since I never actually got an answer I took the seats out and discovered that under the seat is a 6.5" speaker in a "box". My buddy built a box for my CDT Audio 6.5" speakers when we did the complete install.

Install write up here... https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...tall-pics.html

Pics of speakers under front seats...











Hope this helps...

 

Sorry 1bigpea, never saw your original question. Yes, BMW uses this setup in other vehicles as well. If you find you want to improve further on what you've done you may want to consider an active setup. The difficulty with upgrading this setup is that most aftermarket 3-ways cross the mid to woofer at 500-600Hz. This puts a substantial amount of the male vocal band and other instruments coming from under your seat, and at those frequencies they never get out of there. The crossover point on the factory setup is ~150Hz. This is close enough to work, but to replicate it you'd either need to build your own passive crossover network or go active. (FWIW I don't know what the crossover point on that CDT set is, but looking at the size of the woofer inductor on the crossover it appears to be in that range.)

You definitely did the right thing adding a proper subwoofer. For anyone looking at this and considering trying to use the underseat area for a sub, don't! There isn't enough volume under there to get a reasonable Q or reasonable low frequency extension. I hate BMW for doing this underseat nonsense....it isn't a good location for anything and makes it that much more difficult on our development efforts.

 

Countryman volumes are getting high enough to justify us taking a look. No promises, but it is a possibility. Wouldn't be for a while though, at least 6 months.

 

Kevin how would your 3-way setup compare to Hybrid Audio's Legatia SE 3-way setup? I know I will have to source an amp and all that jazz and this is kind of plug and play but for that kind of money I THINK the Legatia 3-way would be best, it will all be ran with a Pioneer P99RS (mother of all SQ decks), A Zed Leviathan III for the front stage, and a 1-2KW amp for the 2 TC Sounds Epic 8's... I know you give pretty good input on all things sound related but i would like your 2cents.

 

You mean the one I answered? Twice...

 

I'll try to answer your question with another question: Which will fit you better - an off-the-rack high-end designer suit, or a custom-tailored suit by a world-class tailor? The tailored suit, every time. The off-the-rack suit is desiged for a hypothetical person, choosen by the designer. Unless you are exactly the same size as that hypothetical person your suit will have the wrong sizes and proportions in various - or all - areas. The same types of design choices are made when speakers are designed - crossover points, slopes, attenuation levels, off-axis response of the drivers, phase considerations, etc. Except the situation is even worse for audio - the off-the-rack suit can at least be altered to fit you a bit better. The end-user can't alter these elements of a speaker system.

Secondly, I'd challenge you to explain why you "think" the HAT Legatia would be "better"? It's likely because you have an impression that they are good quality, maybe read good reviews, or a dealer or friend who thinks they know what they are talking about says they are the "best", etc. Audio quality comes down to two things: engineering and manufacturing. HAT and other high quality companies operate the same way we do - manufacturing is outsourced to a handful of quality suppliers. This is true no matter what label is on the speaker. The quality of the individual components are largely equivalent at a given cost (to the manufacturer - at the retail level this breaks down), the difference is in the engineering and design. I would say that HAT and some others are capable of the same level of engineering of the components. But where it all breaks down is that our systems are designed for the specific vehicle - and this is the most important part of the ENTIRE design process. Trust me, a system that uses mediocre components but is designed for the vehicle will sound better than one with high-quality components that isn't. In our case, it is the same high-quality components, AND vehicle-specific design.

You've listed a bunch of high-quality (and expensive) components above, but it's the execution that determines whether or not they will sound good. It takes a tremendous amount of knowledge and equipment truely do that correctly. And virtually no one at the installer/dealer level can (heck, most of the folks working for a lot of audio companies themselves can't either). Even if they did, doing this kind of work wouldn't be financially feasible for one-offs - it takes hundreds of hours of testing, measurement, and design work. Unless your installer is charging you north of $75,000 for an install, that alone tells you they aren't doing the level of work we're doing for a vehicle.

 

Eh...sorry but I didn't find the answer as clear as I was looking for. But thanks for the help anyways...

 

ok i see your point... the Legatia SE 3-way setup i heard was the clearest setup i have ever heard in my life in a vehicle everything blended together nicely, it was actually transparent... this was in Scott Bulwalda's( The owner of HAT) demo car... ok if i just wanted Raw Drivers no amps no X-overs none of the other stuff what would the cost be?

 

oh yeah i forgot to mention i will be installing and tuning it all myself.

 

I'm sure it was. Keep in mind though that I doubt an install in Scott's car would be fully stock product in stock vehicle locations, at least not without careful consideration and selection. They have all the ability and tools they need to do to his car exactly what we do for our products. But that won't translate to another vehicle. I'm not saying it won't sound good - HAT makes some very, very good stuff. I have a lot of respect for them. Unlike the majority of audio companies they focus on what matters, not what is just marketable. They spend money on the product where it counts, and no where else. It's a design philosophy that we share here. And they actually understand what they are doing and can defend their design decisions - just look through their product manuals to get a sense. But - and this is a big but - you really need to know what you are doing to get the best results from their products. We take the same quality of product, but it is already perfectly applied to your particular vehicle. I refer you back to the off-the-rack vs. custom-tailored suit analogy - I don't know any better way to explain it than that.

We don't work that way, and that would miss the point. By far the most important component of this system is the crossover. That's where most of the vehicle-specific tailoring is done. Yes, the specific drivers were selected for various reasons, but HAT offers suitable drivers as well. What they don't offer is the crossover and everything else.