Real-world experiences - winter and 18-inch performance tires
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4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 353
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Real-world experiences - winter and 18-inch performance tires
The issues of 17's vs 18's, all-weather vs performance, runflats vs traditional, have generated LOTS of discussions.
Those of you who have taken delivery of your CM with 18's on it - how have they been in the snow? Disappointing ? Better than expected?
Given all the snow scattered across the US at the moment, there should be at least a few folks with real-world experiences! And I'm not dismissing the experiences of those outside the US - any and every story is welcome!
Thanks.
Those of you who have taken delivery of your CM with 18's on it - how have they been in the snow? Disappointing ? Better than expected?
Given all the snow scattered across the US at the moment, there should be at least a few folks with real-world experiences! And I'm not dismissing the experiences of those outside the US - any and every story is welcome!
Thanks.
My 18 summers have been much better than expected in the snow and i am coming from a Clubman with 16 inch Michelin Primacy Alpin winter tires which are outstanding. I was planning on replacing the summers with another set of wheels with winters but i will likely wait at least until next year. Maybe never...
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4th Gear
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 353
Likes: 1
Mattmed03 - That is great to hear! Which brand tires did yours come with?
I see in your signature that you're in Indiana. Are you getting hit by the huge storm that's crossing the midwest?
That would give you plenty to test in, that's for sure!
I see in your signature that you're in Indiana. Are you getting hit by the huge storm that's crossing the midwest?
That would give you plenty to test in, that's for sure!
The tires are Goodyear efficientgrip.
Yes I'm in northern Indiana. We got 4-5 inches of snow Monday. 10-12 inches last night and another 1-2 today. It has done surprisingly well. It probably has more to do with the ALL4 than anything.
Yes I'm in northern Indiana. We got 4-5 inches of snow Monday. 10-12 inches last night and another 1-2 today. It has done surprisingly well. It probably has more to do with the ALL4 than anything.
3rd Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
From: New Market, MD
18 performance were ok - compared to others on regular tires and or fwd or rwd they more than held their own. Acceleration was ok but under braking was where they felt less than great on snow/ ice. I made it home when many others failed during one storm but had to have two goes at the last hill. Part was probably not turning off traction control sooner to allow some slip/ grip
But swapping to proper snow tires transformed the car to a Billy goat. If you can afford a second set of rims it is the way to go
But swapping to proper snow tires transformed the car to a Billy goat. If you can afford a second set of rims it is the way to go
4th Gear
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 431
Likes: 3
I'm glad I don't live in the US with people driving around in those conditions on summer tyres, or even all season tyres, Braking is poor, grip non existant. If you had a accident almost anywhere in Northern Europe and you weren't using winter tyres you'd have no insurance coverage.
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4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 474
Likes: 1
From: Northern California
Wow is about all I can say for starters
First, in California where I live, you have to have AWD to run without chains when required, AND you have to have at least all season tires. Having had folks on our driveway w/ a slope in Tahoe, often people with all seasons and AWD couldn't get up the slope. Of a driveway, with AWD! This year we had a relative with summer tires (by mistaken purchase) on an AWD Chrysler minivan (same basic system as the Mini from Steyr, and on 225's by chance), literally slide spin sideways and then run into the house wall backwards. I had to jump out of the way as it played out in slow motion. All from almost a dead stop trying to brake. For those who don't know it, Tahoe can get 200" of snow a year, is often one of the coldest temperatures in the country (at Truckee), and can get 1-3 feet of snow in a day. I-80 is a predominant east west route where much critical interstate trucking occurs 24/7/365, and the summit (...which the Donner Party failed to scale) is at slightly over 7000 feet.
In that real world, true cold weather testing environment, interspersed with huge volumes of recreational and resident traffic both. For reference, the locals basically all drive reasonably serious SUV's, or Subaru's. The only Euro brand sometimes seen outside of SUV's tend to be AWD quattro Audi's, usually a bit older when they have gone down in price used. I have seen 4WD Jeeps upside down in ditches, a Volvo XC90 literally climbing a phone pole at a 60 degree angle across the road from the starting point of the crash, a Dodge RAM 4WD spin into a ditch right in front of me on a modest curve at <30MPH, and all kinds of other calamity. I have come upon many an SUV driver skid, crash, end up on the vehicle's side and you name it. Disproportionately SUV's compared to regular cars if anything; sense locally is variously because of the higher center of gravity, and driver's mistaken sense of vehicle capabilities and stereotypical sense of invincibility in an SUV environment. CHP says the same, publicly now. In Tahoe they refer to the Bay Area pleasure folk who don't get the realities of snow and ice dismissively as the "flatlanders" and gesture with similar shakes of the head. Even things as simple as exiting the Safeway driveway locally with a 3-5 foot drop over 30 or 40 feet perhaps that seems like nothing in summer is fender bender territory by snow, even at 3-5 MPH.
Net, ice and snow and traction don't mix one bit with summer performance tires, and my own experience is all seasons are marginal, particularly in low traction icy situations where it can become "push and pray." And AWD is helpful for getting going, and is of no use or even negative (just more weight) for stopping. Most common fallacy perhaps that leads to crashes with them.
If the post is about wider and lower profile, even in winter tires, that's different. There are some great high performance snow tires out there. For example I have run Dunlop M2's and now M3's for years on performance AWD vehicles well beyond the (acceptable) Mini system. Pirelli, Michelin and others have entries too. Low profile runs sidewall risk though, and wide reduces ability to cut through road crud might help low traction braking literally on top of ice though).
In that real world, true cold weather testing environment, interspersed with huge volumes of recreational and resident traffic both. For reference, the locals basically all drive reasonably serious SUV's, or Subaru's. The only Euro brand sometimes seen outside of SUV's tend to be AWD quattro Audi's, usually a bit older when they have gone down in price used. I have seen 4WD Jeeps upside down in ditches, a Volvo XC90 literally climbing a phone pole at a 60 degree angle across the road from the starting point of the crash, a Dodge RAM 4WD spin into a ditch right in front of me on a modest curve at <30MPH, and all kinds of other calamity. I have come upon many an SUV driver skid, crash, end up on the vehicle's side and you name it. Disproportionately SUV's compared to regular cars if anything; sense locally is variously because of the higher center of gravity, and driver's mistaken sense of vehicle capabilities and stereotypical sense of invincibility in an SUV environment. CHP says the same, publicly now. In Tahoe they refer to the Bay Area pleasure folk who don't get the realities of snow and ice dismissively as the "flatlanders" and gesture with similar shakes of the head. Even things as simple as exiting the Safeway driveway locally with a 3-5 foot drop over 30 or 40 feet perhaps that seems like nothing in summer is fender bender territory by snow, even at 3-5 MPH.
Net, ice and snow and traction don't mix one bit with summer performance tires, and my own experience is all seasons are marginal, particularly in low traction icy situations where it can become "push and pray." And AWD is helpful for getting going, and is of no use or even negative (just more weight) for stopping. Most common fallacy perhaps that leads to crashes with them.
If the post is about wider and lower profile, even in winter tires, that's different. There are some great high performance snow tires out there. For example I have run Dunlop M2's and now M3's for years on performance AWD vehicles well beyond the (acceptable) Mini system. Pirelli, Michelin and others have entries too. Low profile runs sidewall risk though, and wide reduces ability to cut through road crud might help low traction braking literally on top of ice though).
Last edited by MP1.6T; Mar 16, 2011 at 10:07 AM.
1st Gear
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco, CA
I just ran 18" Blizzak LM-60's from the Bay Area to Tahoe and back two weeks in a row. Two significant snows with no problems. Dug the Countryman out of 2 1/2 feet of snow this morning and just arrived home safe via I80.
I don't feel they've turned my CM into a pig as some have observed but I can report that she didn't lose traction even once. I am planning to do dedicated 17" wheels and tires eventually but I couldn't get a second set of rims fast enough.
I don't feel they've turned my CM into a pig as some have observed but I can report that she didn't lose traction even once. I am planning to do dedicated 17" wheels and tires eventually but I couldn't get a second set of rims fast enough.
2nd Gear
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
From: TruckEE, CA
First, in California where I live, you have to have AWD to run without chains when required, AND you have to have at least all season tires. Having had folks on our driveway w/ a slope in Tahoe, often people with all seasons and AWD couldn't get up the slope. Of a driveway, with AWD! This year we had a relative with summer tires (by mistaken purchase) on an AWD Chrysler minivan (same basic system as the Mini from Steyr, and on 225's by chance), literally slide spin sideways and then run into the house wall backwards. I had to jump out of the way as it played out in slow motion. All from almost a dead stop trying to brake. For those who don't know it, Tahoe can get 200" of snow a year, is often one of the coldest temperatures in the country (at Truckee), and can get 1-3 feet of snow in a day. I-80 is a predominant east west route where much critical interstate trucking occurs 24/7/365, and the summit (...which the Donner Party failed to scale) is at slightly over 7000 feet.
Haha spot on, I'm a truckee local...and trading in my subie for a mini. Haha
In that real world, true cold weather testing environment, interspersed with huge volumes of recreational and resident traffic both. For reference, the locals basically all drive reasonably serious SUV's, or Subaru's. The only Euro brand sometimes seen outside of SUV's tend to be AWD quattro Audi's, usually a bit older when they have gone down in price used. I have seen 4WD Jeeps upside down in ditches, a Volvo XC90 literally climbing a phone pole at a 60 degree angle across the road from the starting point of the crash, a Dodge RAM 4WD spin into a ditch right in front of me on a modest curve at <30MPH, and all kinds of other calamity. I have come upon many an SUV driver skid, crash, end up on the vehicle's side and you name it. Disproportionately SUV's compared to regular cars if anything; sense locally is variously because of the higher center of gravity, and driver's mistaken sense of vehicle capabilities and stereotypical sense of invincibility in an SUV environment. CHP says the same, publicly now. In Tahoe they refer to the Bay Area pleasure folk who don't get the realities of snow and ice dismissively as the "flatlanders" and gesture with similar shakes of the head. Even things as simple as exiting the Safeway driveway locally with a 3-5 foot drop over 30 or 40 feet perhaps that seems like nothing in summer is fender bender territory by snow, even at 3-5 MPH.
Net, ice and snow and traction don't mix one bit with summer performance tires, and my own experience is all seasons are marginal, particularly in low traction icy situations where it can become "push and pray." And AWD is helpful for getting going, and is of no use or even negative (just more weight) for stopping. Most common fallacy perhaps that leads to crashes with them.
If the post is about wider and lower profile, even in winter tires, that's different. There are some great high performance snow tires out there. For example I have run Dunlop M2's and now M3's for years on performance AWD vehicles well beyond the (acceptable) Mini system. Pirelli, Michelin and others have entries too. Low profile runs sidewall risk though, and wide reduces ability to cut through road crud might help low traction braking literally on top of ice though).
Haha spot on, I'm a truckee local...and trading in my subie for a mini. Haha
In that real world, true cold weather testing environment, interspersed with huge volumes of recreational and resident traffic both. For reference, the locals basically all drive reasonably serious SUV's, or Subaru's. The only Euro brand sometimes seen outside of SUV's tend to be AWD quattro Audi's, usually a bit older when they have gone down in price used. I have seen 4WD Jeeps upside down in ditches, a Volvo XC90 literally climbing a phone pole at a 60 degree angle across the road from the starting point of the crash, a Dodge RAM 4WD spin into a ditch right in front of me on a modest curve at <30MPH, and all kinds of other calamity. I have come upon many an SUV driver skid, crash, end up on the vehicle's side and you name it. Disproportionately SUV's compared to regular cars if anything; sense locally is variously because of the higher center of gravity, and driver's mistaken sense of vehicle capabilities and stereotypical sense of invincibility in an SUV environment. CHP says the same, publicly now. In Tahoe they refer to the Bay Area pleasure folk who don't get the realities of snow and ice dismissively as the "flatlanders" and gesture with similar shakes of the head. Even things as simple as exiting the Safeway driveway locally with a 3-5 foot drop over 30 or 40 feet perhaps that seems like nothing in summer is fender bender territory by snow, even at 3-5 MPH.
Net, ice and snow and traction don't mix one bit with summer performance tires, and my own experience is all seasons are marginal, particularly in low traction icy situations where it can become "push and pray." And AWD is helpful for getting going, and is of no use or even negative (just more weight) for stopping. Most common fallacy perhaps that leads to crashes with them.
If the post is about wider and lower profile, even in winter tires, that's different. There are some great high performance snow tires out there. For example I have run Dunlop M2's and now M3's for years on performance AWD vehicles well beyond the (acceptable) Mini system. Pirelli, Michelin and others have entries too. Low profile runs sidewall risk though, and wide reduces ability to cut through road crud might help low traction braking literally on top of ice though).
1st Gear
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
I live in Kings Beach part of the year and just traded my Subaru Impreza Outback Sport for an ALL4. It is great that we now have a dealership in Reno. This will be my first automatic car in almost 15 years. I am going to try and get by this next winter on the all season tires. If that doesn't work, I will go back to a set of Blizzacks which are in IMHO the best ice tires without studs there is.
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