Dear Minimaniacs,

I have recently installed both the camber plates and the rear control arms at the local aligment shop (they are reputable in the area).
After some initial problems with the installation of the camber plates, they finally installed properly-or at least appears that way.

However, the problem came when aligning the car. I was trying to align the car for the track as I will be at TWS next weekend.

Facts:

Aligment actual specs are:

Front Camber
Driver: -2.2
Passenger: -2.4

Rear camber:
-1.5

Toe
Front: 0 (or as close to 0 as possible)
Rear: slight (close to 1/16)

Well, the car pulls hard to the right and does not have any steering feedback, is almost scary to drive at high speed as it has become unpredictable .

Tires are well inflated (37 in the front and 38 in the rear), but the rear tires were wearing out fast specially the inside, so before doing the aligment I flipped the tires inside out to maximize life.

Can anybody shed some light on this issue.

Hernan

 

What camber on the rear? How did they align the rears--did they adjust toe with the trailing arm or the control links? They should only adjust camber with the links and toe with the trailing arm.
Front camber and toe seem fine, on the aggressive side.
I see you are running RT-615s. they cant be flipped as they are asymmetric.


Otherwise, smarter people will have to make suggestions. Sounds scary.

 

This is actually not a very aggressive setup at all.
Just sounds like the shop may have done something wrong. Parts may be installed wrong or fastened incorrectly.
By the way, what is the rear camber?

This is why I string align my car.

 

Dr,
Rear camber is -1.5.
Do you think this problem has something to do with me flipping the tires?.
Also, the shop did adjuts camber using control links and toe with trailing arms as far as I have seen.

 

FYI, this is the web page of the shop I used for the install and alignment
www.swalignment.com

 

I don't know, but all my tires have been asymmetric and they seemed to wander and tramline a lot. That's what makes me think they would act weird if flipped around.
Where's minihune when you need him?

 

The measured toe in front might be 0ish, but both could be pointed to the right (even slightly would make it dart that way).

Are you testing on a flat road? More than -2 up front will cause the car to find EVERY excuse to get move around and offline from straight, especially on crowned or grooved roads. It's something you get used to. You should have great steering response, though.

The rears shouldn't be wearing that fast on the inside with -1.5 degrees - is there any cupping on the inside shoulder?

I run -2.7 degrees up front and -1.5 in the rear on the street everyday... As long as I rotate my street tires every 3K miles, I get good wear out of them.

 

Hmmm, this really can't happen. The only thing that would happen would that his steering wheel would be off center. You could have -1/16 toe on the right and +1/8" toe on the left and you will just end up with +1/16 toe or +1/32 per side. Car will still go straight but the steering wheel will be off.
.Actually toe is what makes the car wonder, not camber. That's why cars come with negative toe rather then zero. Zero will follow road irregularities, but not much at all. Positive toe will really wonder.

 

Actually toe is what makes the car wonder, not camber. That's why cars come with negative toe rather then zero. Zero will follow road irregularities, but not much at all. Positive toe will really wonder.[/quote]

So are you saying I should try changing toe in the front, if so how much negative toe?

 

No, if you are focused on the track, or even just spirited street driving then stick with 0 toe.
It sounds to me like your specs are just fine. I think there may be a set-up issue here, or maybe a extreem tire issue. Just really too hard to call with out an inspection. In your first post you seemed unsure that the camber plates were installed right. Maybe posting some pictures may help.
Tire presure?
I'll do some thinking on this.

 

If it's on an alignment rig, yes, or using something like Smart Strings... I'm used to measuring with toe plates (e.g. Longacre toe plates). You can have one toed in and the other toed out - the steering wheel off center - and I could still measure 0 toe. Or, if I had 0 toe and had the wheel turned slightly, same thing. Anyway... If you put the steering wheel on center in this situation, you would turn - or, if you let go of the wheel, it would likely turn (depending on the rear and a host of other factors).

Hrm, I guess we can agree to disagree. Both can contribute on the MINI based on my experience. On the road, with negative toe and -2.7 degrees, my car still found every opportunity to change directions on heavily crowned or rutted roads - zero toe is the same. On these roads (e.g. FM roads in Texas), where the camber of the road constantly changes the interface with the tires, it likes to change directions and requires constant attention. On a flat road, it doesn't happen unless you make an adjustment to the wheel - and yes, I'm confident in the alignment settings.

Anyway, I agree that that alignment settings look fine - I would double-check pressures. And, lastly, take it back to the shop and have them drive it. Pics would help, for sure.

 

I agree with "the shop did something wrong." If you can; take it to another shop and have them check it. You're alignment specs sound fine. It will make the car want to wander a bit, especially on a grooved road as was mentioned. But it shouldn't pull to one side.

If everything checks out and you are still having issues, PM me. I'll be at the Manor House Inn friday night, or I'll see you at the track on Saturday.

Good Luck,

Alan

 

Right now I will agree that getting a 2nd opinion might be the best...I will take it to another shop and see what they say.
Thanks a buch.

Hernan

 

Kinda doubt it, but check for any swaybar preload that may have acured during all this work.

 

Sorry about my ignorance...but what exactly do you mean by preload?, can you elaborate.

 

The sway bar end links are the about 6 inch long rods that connect the ends of the sway bar to the strut (front) and trailing arm (rear). If you still have the stock ones - they are not adjustable. But they may have forgot to connect one up or bent one or broke one. I don't think that would make the car pull to one side, but you never know. Not me anyway. It would still be a dangerous situation. Essentially disconnecting a sway bar will severely affect handling.

Alan

 

I didn't read thru every reply, but, if the techs adjusted rear toe via your adjustable rear lower control arms you have your answer. Adjusting toe thusly will make the car to drive! Very nasty camber toe curve...

I taped a note on each of mine last time it was aligned..."if you touch these during this alignment I will break your hands"

 

Ok I took the car to BHS (local mini and bmw gurus) and the main issue was that toe on the passenger side was really off thus the pulling to the right .

The guys at the shop recommended less agressive specs in order to reduce tire wear even though this is not my daily driver.

Actual specs are:
Front camber 2.1 - with less camber the struts do not rub so noise has been removed
Rear camber: 1.7
Toe: Front almost 0 and rear close to 1/16

The car drives great now...no more pulling to the right and the steering feedback is back to normal.

The sway bar was OK.

Thanks to all of you for your input ...I have definitely learn some with this thread.

Hernan

 

Have fun @ TWS!!!

 

Just goes to show that the more stuff you have to adjust, the more opportunities to get it wrong.

 

Great!

See you tomorrow buddy.

Alan