R50/53 What to do about my lemon cooper... :-(
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1st Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco, CA
Help! I think I have a lemon. No, I'm SURE I have a lemon. The Pepper (or "Lemon," rather!) has broken down 4x in the past 3 weeks with the same problem over and over again (check engine light comes on, EML comes on, car stops, and can't be started again for a long time). I've had it towed so many times and it's pretty much spent the past month at Mini of Concord. The dealer keeps promising to fix it, and they have a new repair on it each time, but nothing seems to work. I did contact MiniUSA the other week to let them know there was a problem and perhaps the dealer hadn't been updated on the latest Mini upgrades, but that hasn't helped either. I'm not sure what to do at this point: either call the manufacturer and demand a new replacement car or the $$$ I spent in the first place, or call an attorney and have them do the legwork for me.
To top it off, when it got towed the 3rd time, the towing company had to store it overnight for me because they didn't have a flatbed truck available until the following day (it had to be towed an hour away from where it broke down). When the dealer received it the following morning, they noted that there was a dent & scratch on the driver sidedoor. So not only do I have this totally f*!#ed up lemon problem, but I have to deal with this negligent towing company as well.
I'm completely fed up!
Does anyone have any good suggestions? At the very least, does anyone know the direct line to Mini Manufacturing? Does anyone know a good lemon law attorney?
-Belle
(my sig says "I'm loving it," but I don't think I am!
)
To top it off, when it got towed the 3rd time, the towing company had to store it overnight for me because they didn't have a flatbed truck available until the following day (it had to be towed an hour away from where it broke down). When the dealer received it the following morning, they noted that there was a dent & scratch on the driver sidedoor. So not only do I have this totally f*!#ed up lemon problem, but I have to deal with this negligent towing company as well.
I'm completely fed up!
Does anyone have any good suggestions? At the very least, does anyone know the direct line to Mini Manufacturing? Does anyone know a good lemon law attorney?
-Belle
(my sig says "I'm loving it," but I don't think I am!
)
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Joined: Jan 2003
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From: los angeles/san francisco
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5
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From: Houston ,Texas
Belle,
Go to the internet and look up Lemon Law for your state. Once you get to that website there are more details on what to do. Do this ASAP because i think you can recoup some of your monies or get some other financial satisfaction. Please keep us all posted and good luck.
michelle
Go to the internet and look up Lemon Law for your state. Once you get to that website there are more details on what to do. Do this ASAP because i think you can recoup some of your monies or get some other financial satisfaction. Please keep us all posted and good luck.
michelle
Before jumping on the lemon law bandwagon, I have to ask... (and your answers here may generate some more thoughtful MCO member feedback than has happened for the most part above)
1) What are the actual repairs attempted by the dealer?
2) What did MINIUSA say? Did you follow up with them by giving them the results of your last dealer visit?
3) Have you contacted any of the CVT experts here on the site? What did they say? (you may want to repost with a different subject in the "Beneath the Bonnet" thread to get some technical help)
4) Have you gone to ANOTHER dealer for work on this problem? (this is your purchasing dealer, right?)
In the end, you may have a lemon -- or at least a car that MINI agrees to replace -- but in order to really solve your problem you will need to be quite diligent about record keeping and tracking out the problem. Short of just parking it and pulling off the plates
there's no easy way to solve this issue. Rants are cathartic, but in the end not generally productive in terms of actually solving the problem.
This is definitely NOT the first time that we've seen posts about CVT Coopers with just this sort of problem. Some have indeed been replaced, but others (probably more in the big picture) have been successfully fixed.
Good luck!
1) What are the actual repairs attempted by the dealer?
2) What did MINIUSA say? Did you follow up with them by giving them the results of your last dealer visit?
3) Have you contacted any of the CVT experts here on the site? What did they say? (you may want to repost with a different subject in the "Beneath the Bonnet" thread to get some technical help)
4) Have you gone to ANOTHER dealer for work on this problem? (this is your purchasing dealer, right?)
In the end, you may have a lemon -- or at least a car that MINI agrees to replace -- but in order to really solve your problem you will need to be quite diligent about record keeping and tracking out the problem. Short of just parking it and pulling off the plates
there's no easy way to solve this issue. Rants are cathartic, but in the end not generally productive in terms of actually solving the problem.This is definitely NOT the first time that we've seen posts about CVT Coopers with just this sort of problem. Some have indeed been replaced, but others (probably more in the big picture) have been successfully fixed.
Good luck!
6th Gear
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,406
Likes: 0
From: Northeast Ohio
So..... ANybody want to get into the pool for how long it takes for the useless
"Hi I'm from MINI division, sorry to hear about your problem, I told the guy who works in the mailroom about it. Please call ASK-MINI because the janitor would like to hear about it too..." post.....
My guess is at least 3 more days....
"Hi I'm from MINI division, sorry to hear about your problem, I told the guy who works in the mailroom about it. Please call ASK-MINI because the janitor would like to hear about it too..." post.....
My guess is at least 3 more days....
Banned
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,756
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>>Help! I think I have a lemon. No, I'm SURE I have a lemon. The Pepper (or "Lemon," rather!) has broken down 4x in the past 3 weeks with the same problem over and over again (check engine light comes on, EML comes on, car stops, and can't be started again for a long time). I've had it towed so many times and it's pretty much spent the past month at Mini of Concord. The dealer keeps promising to fix it, and they have a new repair on it each time, but nothing seems to work. I did contact MiniUSA the other week to let them know there was a problem and perhaps the dealer hadn't been updated on the latest Mini upgrades, but that hasn't helped either. I'm not sure what to do at this point: either call the manufacturer and demand a new replacement car or the $$$ I spent in the first place, or call an attorney and have them do the legwork for me.
>>
>>To top it off, when it got towed the 3rd time, the towing company had to store it overnight for me because they didn't have a flatbed truck available until the following day (it had to be towed an hour away from where it broke down). When the dealer received it the following morning, they noted that there was a dent & scratch on the driver sidedoor. So not only do I have this totally f*!#ed up lemon problem, but I have to deal with this negligent towing company as well.
>>
>>I'm completely fed up!
>>
>>Does anyone have any good suggestions? At the very least, does anyone know the direct line to Mini Manufacturing? Does anyone know a good lemon law attorney?
>>
>>-Belle
>>
>>(my sig says "I'm loving it," but I don't think I am! )
Here is what you need to do:
1) Install new engine wiring harness
2) Install new throttle body control module
3) Update software to version 33.2
You should be good as new. Since you did not mention the above fixes (Aside from the software update) I think this needs to be done before you decide to take your issues to the next level.
>>
>>To top it off, when it got towed the 3rd time, the towing company had to store it overnight for me because they didn't have a flatbed truck available until the following day (it had to be towed an hour away from where it broke down). When the dealer received it the following morning, they noted that there was a dent & scratch on the driver sidedoor. So not only do I have this totally f*!#ed up lemon problem, but I have to deal with this negligent towing company as well.
>>
>>I'm completely fed up!
>>
>>Does anyone have any good suggestions? At the very least, does anyone know the direct line to Mini Manufacturing? Does anyone know a good lemon law attorney?
>>
>>-Belle
>>
>>(my sig says "I'm loving it," but I don't think I am!
)Here is what you need to do:
1) Install new engine wiring harness
2) Install new throttle body control module
3) Update software to version 33.2
You should be good as new. Since you did not mention the above fixes (Aside from the software update) I think this needs to be done before you decide to take your issues to the next level.
4th Gear
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 321
Likes: 0
From: Mexico
I´d show the dealer these posts. Seems there are a lot of smart people around here posting the exact problems and solutions for our cars. I actually hope MINI (USA, Mexico, Canada, all...) starts looking around these forums (MCO and MINI2) to learn about the problems we have.
Tell them to get the repairs mentioned above, if it doesn´t fix it, then absolutely demand a new one.
Tell them to get the repairs mentioned above, if it doesn´t fix it, then absolutely demand a new one.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 283
Likes: 0
From: nashville
My MINI was bought used, and had the same problem. However, it was not fixed until I owned the car. With the previous owner, he took it to Braman Miami dealership with the same problem. The dealer put the same thing on their car 4 times! The guy probably thought he had a lemon and that is why he sold it. But, at MINI of Nashville, where i live, it was a simple fix. the only problem MINI of Nashville had was with Braman MINI, because they did not know what they were doing. So, my car was fixed by people who know what they are doing. Maybe whoever you are taking yours too doesn't exactly know MINIs. Just a suggestion.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,265
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From: Dunedin, FL, USA
I would talk to MINIUSA (1-866-ASK-MINI) and threaten them with lemon-lawing it if they don't replace the tranny or whatever it takes to fix the problem for good.
I know here in FL it is fairly simple and straightforward process to bring a car to before a lemon law arbitration board. You just need to have the identical problem happen 3 times or have the car in the shop over 30 total days, then you file the paperwork and if the problem is that the identical think broke 3 times, the manufacturer has the right to attempt to fix it one final time. If it breaks again they have to give you a replacement car or your money back minus a usage fee for the time you owned it.
I lemon-lawed a 1995 Ford Escort GT I had no problems with the filing process. Ford did have a lawyer at the arbitration, but the board is on the consumers side and follows the law to a T. The Escort was in the shop over 30 days total so I won easily.
I'm no lawyer but since I've been through this process feel free to PM me if you need any help.
Found a CA lemon law aid for consumers flyer you might want to read if you haven't already:
http://www.dca.ca.gov./acp/pdf_files/lemonaid2002.pdf
Here is the CA arbitration process:
http://www.dca.ca.gov./acp/arbprocess.htm
_________________
[img]albums/album25/aln.gif[/img] see my MCS at VinceAndJessica.com
Alta 15% pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress 22mm rear anti-sway bar.
I know here in FL it is fairly simple and straightforward process to bring a car to before a lemon law arbitration board. You just need to have the identical problem happen 3 times or have the car in the shop over 30 total days, then you file the paperwork and if the problem is that the identical think broke 3 times, the manufacturer has the right to attempt to fix it one final time. If it breaks again they have to give you a replacement car or your money back minus a usage fee for the time you owned it.
I lemon-lawed a 1995 Ford Escort GT I had no problems with the filing process. Ford did have a lawyer at the arbitration, but the board is on the consumers side and follows the law to a T. The Escort was in the shop over 30 days total so I won easily.
I'm no lawyer but since I've been through this process feel free to PM me if you need any help.
Found a CA lemon law aid for consumers flyer you might want to read if you haven't already:
http://www.dca.ca.gov./acp/pdf_files/lemonaid2002.pdf
Here is the CA arbitration process:
http://www.dca.ca.gov./acp/arbprocess.htm
_________________
[img]albums/album25/aln.gif[/img] see my MCS at VinceAndJessica.com
Alta 15% pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress 22mm rear anti-sway bar.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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I am not sure if threatening MINIUSA will have any productive effect or not. However, I think the bulk of her problems are being caused by an inept or incapable dealer service dept.
Before going any further, we need to establish if these fix attaempts have already been made to her car:
1) New engine wiring harness (Yes/No?)
2) Throttle Body control module (Yes/No?)
3) Software update to version 33.2 or 33.3 (Yes/no?)
Once those questions get answered then she can take it to the next level. Remember that in cases like this is always wise to ride one pony at a time.
For the record, our '02 Cooper CVT (August 2002 build) has been flawless and runs like a champ at nearly 10,400 miles and 11 months of service.
With this I want to make clear that not ALL CVTs are BAD or DEFECTIVE cars. I know that there are at least one or two posters in the exisiting MINI boards actively engaged in promoting the perception that the Cooper CVT is an unreliable vehicle and that is simply not true. I feel sympathetic towards the problems they have experienced with their cars but in no way their problems are an actual representation of 50% or 100% of the CVT owner population.
Before going any further, we need to establish if these fix attaempts have already been made to her car:
1) New engine wiring harness (Yes/No?)
2) Throttle Body control module (Yes/No?)
3) Software update to version 33.2 or 33.3 (Yes/no?)
Once those questions get answered then she can take it to the next level. Remember that in cases like this is always wise to ride one pony at a time.
For the record, our '02 Cooper CVT (August 2002 build) has been flawless and runs like a champ at nearly 10,400 miles and 11 months of service.
With this I want to make clear that not ALL CVTs are BAD or DEFECTIVE cars. I know that there are at least one or two posters in the exisiting MINI boards actively engaged in promoting the perception that the Cooper CVT is an unreliable vehicle and that is simply not true. I feel sympathetic towards the problems they have experienced with their cars but in no way their problems are an actual representation of 50% or 100% of the CVT owner population.
6th Gear
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 0
From: Dunedin, FL, USA
Oh, believe me I agree, I love my MINI and feel that it is in general is a very low trouble car so far, but there are lemons and that's why there is the lemon law.
Sorry though, Cooper4Us, but complaining to MINI USA is the next step if the dealer can't fix the problem... see the arbitration process:
1. Consult your warranty booklet.
2. Attempt to resolve the problem with the dealer.
3. Contact the manufacturer or its representative directly....
It is not her, nor our job to troubleshoot the problem, it is the dealer's job and if they can't do it then complaining to MINI USA by phone will likely get them to contact the dealer directly and may get the problem solved without even having to go through sending certified letters and all that.
_________________
[img]albums/album25/aln.gif[/img] see my MCS at VinceAndJessica.com
Alta 15% pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress 22mm rear anti-sway bar.
Sorry though, Cooper4Us, but complaining to MINI USA is the next step if the dealer can't fix the problem... see the arbitration process:
1. Consult your warranty booklet.
2. Attempt to resolve the problem with the dealer.
3. Contact the manufacturer or its representative directly....
It is not her, nor our job to troubleshoot the problem, it is the dealer's job and if they can't do it then complaining to MINI USA by phone will likely get them to contact the dealer directly and may get the problem solved without even having to go through sending certified letters and all that.
_________________
[img]albums/album25/aln.gif[/img] see my MCS at VinceAndJessica.com
Alta 15% pulley, Stebro exhaust, Pipercross intake, Progress 22mm rear anti-sway bar.
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Sure you can complain to them. Threats seldom work that was the point I was trying to make before.
Threats work wonderfully, but they need to be in the form of a letter from a consumer advocate lawyer, not over the phone from the actual consumer....quit worrying about how to solve it and get a top notch consumer lawyer, he will get you a new car and mini will be more than happy to pay his fees before going to court....cheers !
Threats work wonderfully, but they need to be in the form of a letter from a consumer advocate lawyer, not over the phone from the actual consumer....quit worrying about how to solve it and get a top notch consumer lawyer, he will get you a new car and mini will be more than happy to pay his fees before going to court....cheers !
I think that BOTH Cooper4us and miniblues are correct. Cooper4us is correct that the crappy litigious nature of our society is such that the only way to get results is to behave as miniblues suggests. 
Now, I wonder what Belle will do while we solve society's legal problems on this thread...
Now, I wonder what Belle will do while we solve society's legal problems on this thread...
cooper4us is completely right on the money.
i had issues with my cvt and i can now smile and say they are all gone!
the latest software update i had applied yesterday has done the trick!
if you're upset with your car and the lemon law angle is a option, i'd do it....
you are paying for a new car, ya? weigh out your options very seriously!
i'm sure whatever you decide, you'll be happy!
i had issues with my cvt and i can now smile and say they are all gone!
the latest software update i had applied yesterday has done the trick!
if you're upset with your car and the lemon law angle is a option, i'd do it....
you are paying for a new car, ya? weigh out your options very seriously!
i'm sure whatever you decide, you'll be happy!
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Yep, the litigious country we are in!. Get the lawyer and he'll bring the world down to your knees.
No wonder the legal profession is so profitable and has the reputation of a dirty toilet.
So, the alternative is to do or say nothing and you end of with a piece of crap while the manufactures keeps your money and does nothing about not continuing to produce crap in the future........priceless.......
No wonder the legal profession is so profitable and has the reputation of a dirty toilet.
So, the alternative is to do or say nothing and you end of with a piece of crap while the manufactures keeps your money and does nothing about not continuing to produce crap in the future........priceless.......