How many of you guys feel the R53s will become another classic MINI - say 20+ years from now?

Because as much as I love the new R56, and no offense to the new owners, I don't find them as appealing as the R53s. That said, I don't see the R56's becoming a collectors car (so to speak) but the R53s, I think 20+ years down the road, people will want to buy them even more, which equals holding its' resale value, just like it's predecessor.


-Trace

 

You is right my friend. If no economic depression, world war, or pandemic, the R53, without a doubt, will become a classic.

As for the R56... i would not put any money on it, but you never know. I personally doubt it. Not the same classic status as the R53, thats for sure...

 

It's always hard to predict what cars will be desirable/valuable in the future. As an example, the classic Dodge Charger that everyone seems to want right now is the 68-70 generation (the one from "Bullitt" and "Dukes of Hazzard".

But if you look at the sales numbers from when the car was new, the sales figures took a huge jump up when the "new" body style came out in 1971. But these days, the 71-74 body style is nowhere near as desirable as the 68-70 style.

Also, the 1971 Hemicuda convertible was an *extremely* unpopular combination when it was new (that's why Plymouth only made 11 of them). But now, they're fetching $2 million+ at auction.

At the time, no one bought them because it didn't make sense to pay the huge option price for the Hemi engine, only to lose much of the benefit because of the heavier convertible body. But the fact that it was so unpopular makes it rare, and the rarity now makes it more valuable.

 

Now this is back to discussing BJ auction prices (e.g., the $2M hemi cuda example), a subject discussed and debated many times. But one thing to remember is there is a HUGE difference between 11 hemi cudas convertables made and 150,000 first gen MINIs sold in the US. There is simply no comparison. Rarity is driving up those prices and MINIs are hardly rare.

The second issue is what do buyers want. Since we can't predict the future, we dont know. But we can look at what is popular at BJ. Some years ago exotics were hots with Ferraris getting huge prices. Now the market has dropped out and muscle cars are in. Why? Its been said that simply because baby boomers are now able to afford the cars of their dreams that they could not afford as teenagers. What baby boomer, a teenager in the 60s, would not have loved to get a Shelby 350 GT or 427 Vette?

And the question becomes, what will buyers want in 20 years? Will they want a common car sold in relatively large numbers that has somewhat of a cult following? Only time will tell.

 

Glad to know I'm not the only guy holding the crystal ball.

Unfortunately, muscle cars are valued by year made vs. the platform. Unlike the R53s, the 2002 models do not look any different from a 2006 model (referring to exterior). Come year 2027, if you can't find a nice clean 2006 R53, a nice clean 2002 will do fine.

 

I was thinking on the same line, but we also have to put into equation, 150,000 MINIs built, how many will still be running or look pristine by 2027.

And lets take in another equation by narrowing down/defining which R53, the cooper, S, JCW or GP. That said, do you think the JCW and GP will become a collector?

 

There are significant differences between 2002 and 2006 and anybody investing money in a collectable car will know this just as the commentators on BJ point that out on cars up for auctions. The major one is the gearing changes in MCSs. But there are other differences such as the MC gearboxs and the exhaust hangers in MCSs.

 

Yep - the example I was making with the Charger was that even though buyers *at the time* loved the new swoopy "coke bottle" styling of the 71-74 body style over the 68-70 models (as evidenced by the huge increase in sales when it was introduced), it's the 68-70 body style that's now the popular version with *today's* buyers.

I don't worry about it too much, since cars are such a notoriously-poor investment. It's exceedingly rare to find a 40-year old car that's worth more today than you would have if you had just put the original purchase price of the car into more-traditional investments.

 

It all comes down to what you're talking about when you say "a collector". Are you asking if, in twenty years, there will be a group of people that find it worthwhile to rebuild/restore a JCW or GP, rather than letting it go to the crusher? Almost certainly. But if you're asking if they're going to appreciate enough to make them worthwhile "investments" today against the hope of some future payoff, then almost certainly *not*.

 

I'm referring to the latter - keeping a low miles JCW or GP in garage for 20yrs. Cause the New MINI is not the same - lMO it lost the classic MINI look.

 

A good question also discussed before

You got to put this into perspective. When you say 150K cars, thats the number sold in the US. When a true collectable goes up on BJ, the numbers are very, very small and they are the total numbers of cars sold worldwide.

They made 39 Ferrari GTOs ... period
They made 268 Porsche 959s ... period

There have been more than 1,000,000 MINIs sold worldwide ... hardly small numbers. So how many will survive? I would bet ... A LOT.

JCWs and GPs. Well I had a MC40, one of 2000 made and it was a full JCW car. Worth? Not much of anything on resale. MC40 got nothing. JCW adds very little value. MC40 is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. Car makers have "commerative" editions but as I was told, they just make the car harder to sell because the masses dont want all that extra stuff. GPs? I forget how many sold worldwide 1000? Still a lot of cars.

If you just look at history, what will buyers want. A few years ago they wanted exotics. Today they seem to want big block muscle cars with small blocks getting less money in general. In 20 years will buyers want MINI Coopers? With 1,000,000 sold, I just don't think so buy hey, who knows? That does not mean that someone might not to buy one to fix up but to make serious money? Dont think so.

BTW, at this years auction (or maybe it was last year) both an early 1990s Mustang and Camaro Indy Pace car went up, pristine condition, always stored away. Both cars barely made their original cost making owning them mean the owners lost money just by inflation nm storage fees, insurance, etc.

 

Well, look at it this way. Take the ~$31,500 it would cost to buy a GP today, and put that in an investment account that will average 9% annual interest over the next twenty years (and 9% over the long haul isn't a difficult interest rate to achieve. In fact, it's fairly conservative).

After the twenty years is up, the investment account will be worth $186,000. How much do you think the GP will be worth? Plus, you won't have had to insure, store and maintain the GP for twenty years.

Seriously, if you want a GP or a JCW, get one. But if you're trying to talk yourself into one on the basis of it being "a good investment", then stop right now.

 

Like I said, two ppl tried that with Mustang and Indy pace cars. Big mistake. I agree with Scott. Go enjoy the car. Go drive it until the wheels fall off but buying a MINI with the idea it will increase in value ... IMO, not going to happen.

Worse yet, many ppl mod their MINIs. Not good. Collectors want OEM parts, all original.

 

Your points well taken - so much for me being so optimistic.

 

YEah. I agree totally crazy. There will be other models after the R56 and there will be people who dont like the one after that too, but to think the R53 is going to be a classic is funny

 

But you have to admit Mike, when the first MINI was built no one knew it will become a classic. So who knows right, if not 20 yrs. down the road, maybe 30 or 40 yrs.

By the way, nice R56 you got there. You sure didn't waste any time modding.

 

R53's will become classics in the way TR6's, MGB's, etc. are today. A very fun somewhat unique car, that it's imperfections will define, almost as much as it's assets... Just my 2 pennies PS: I'm planning on keeping mine for a very long time, just for the fun of it!

 

I agree. BMW will run out of the backstock of Tritec engines next year. I would bet the future dependancy of Chinese replacement parts for this powerplant will reduce the number of running examples as well. 20-30 years from now a drivable Tritec powered MINI will be a classic, for sure.

 

I'm working on it...Look for the 80 yr old fart with a PS 300,000 mile Mini...

 

Yep, that paired with all the ones lost through accidents. There are plenty of wrecked MINIs on the Internet, and as the purchase prices fall for the older ones, they become the 'in' car for younger people, who will inevitably wreck them, driving the prices up on the remaining ones. It happens with just about any unique car. Look at how much you could buy a fairly clean VW Beetle for 10-15 years ago compaired with now. Same goes for the Fiat Spiders, thats why I'm holding onto my '85...it was the last year they were made, and I can watch the prices on eBay go up every year on it.

 

I'm not sure R53 will be any more a classic than any MINI...much like a Mk1 Mini may be more desirable to some, but folks who prefer roll up windows and drive a later model still own a classic. Tuners will always like R53, and the supercharger whine will attract some, but that's not enough to make it stand on it's own as a classic seperate from other MINIs, imo. R56 is a bit different...but not all that much in the big scheme of things. Both cars have definite strengths that will attract owners.

 

I would agree that tuners will like the R53... but I don't know that they will generally preferr it.

Once the aftermarket cracks the new ECU, I would guess the turbo car becomes the tuners choice.

 

With 1,000,000 cars sold worldwide, if you really think its going to be collectable in the sense of muscle cars today at BJ, I got a bridge for you to buy. If you mean a car to fix up, mess with ... sure.

 

Yes, very likely!