Hey all,

Cool site !!! I have cleared the objections of the wife !! (Your objection is sustained !!)
My build number is a few weeks out, I 've set a limit for myself of 23,000. I've spent sleepless nights on the mini site, mini2 and this site. I am driving my friends crazy !!! I realy think the mini looks cool with the 17'' wheels but at last I live in Michigan, where the roads range from tolerable to completely pathetic !! The premium packages goes on, because I want cruise and the wifey wants the sunroof. My only friend that understands how cool this car, (Having had a 67), is pushing me for zenons, I think the DSC is a safe idea especially when it snows, the zenons and DSC mean the fogs and 17's would cost only 200 more !!! And Premium plus Sport fits under 23,000 if I ditch the Harmon Karden !! Phew !!!!
So here's were I need the help, I heard mini is changing the shock oil to soften up the front end, but I would like to here from some Midwestern owners on how bad the 17" are. I can deal with some harshness, but I'm starting to hear tales of tramming and wondering on the freeway. In other words do you regret not getting the 16" wheels??
Also any comments on either stereo would be helpfull. I spent about 3 minutes listening to the stocker, it didn't seem bad, just not real good. Anybody who bought the H/K regret getting it ?? Or anybody wish they had ??

Thanks for any advice given.

 

I paid $24,300 for a 2002 PS MCS w/ lapis leather.
Had everything you could get (all 3 packages) except the nav system.
No HK system. & yes to 17" wheels.
If you give up one of the packages (sport or premium).... you'll be close enough to $23K. I recommend you do not ...!!!!

At 24.5K it's a great car...IMHO

You'll evetually add...after makrket stuff.....tires, rims, air intake , exhuast...etc...etc...etc... You'll then approach the $30K range.....and now it's a sopecial car :smile:

Read the forums you'll be ..overwhelmed w/ info.:smile:

Just MHO

Peace,
D

 

Hey,

Sharp car !! Premium + Sport =22,875+tax. No mark up, and 23,000 did not include tax.
How are the roads by you ?? Looks like you replaced the rims? Did you keep the run-flats? If not did the ride improve ?? I hate to sound like a wimp about the ride, my last car was a Miata with 195 50 15"s, so I know what I'm getting into, just don't want a nervous feeling car.

With a wife, and 2 kids under 8, 23,000 before tax is going to have to do !!!
Glad to here you love your car !!! Despite the software issues and the JD Power report, I haven't been able to find any who regrets buying one !! So that's comforting.

 

Gmack

I have an S read my signature. I paid a tad less than 25,000 I have the HK and like it. I have all 3 packages. I didn't get leather or navigation, or parking sensors. Other than that it is loaded. The xenons are cool, but they are just fancy lights. Multifunction wheel is a must have. The ride on the 17" S lites with Performance tires is exactly what you should expect. The MINI is smooth as a caddy on a smooth road. If the road has potholes you will feel everyone. If a road has a rough surface but is overall smooth you will feel the surface. To me this is the perfect way it should be. You are in contact with the road and the car is passing the information on to you. I do not think you need the 17" wheels and the car would be quite nice on smaller wheels, I don't think it looks quite as good, but that is just my opinion, and taste.

Good luck enjoy your new baby. You do need to decide what you really want and need. Remember an extra 1000 is only an extra $20 bucks per payment. If you want it bad it is money well spent. If you really want the xenons, adding them later will cost you much more.

jc

 

welcome gmack!

smack here, and let me tell you about my 17's on chicago area streets...
i love them personally! i also think that they look better, not to mention
that i've started wondering how i drove another car that didn't let me know
so much information about the road. it's part of the much talked about
'go-kart' feel of the car. if your roads are that bad though, the 16's should help a bit, but i couldn't say if it's a world of difference.

i've felt a very noticable dart...maybe once or twice in the 2.5 weeks i've
driven my S. it's just me getting used to the amount of feedback from
the tires and making that my everyday expectation.

i paid msrp, and ordered everything but #3, NAV, and electronic curb feelers.
in my opinion, the HK is a MUST! xenons are cool looking, but just lights.
the only thing the DSC has done for me so far, is keep me from chirping the
front tires off the line...so i turn it off everytime i get in the car. maybe when the weather gets bad it'll show itself off, but right now...the car handles better than
any other car i've had with the DSC off!

hope that helps, and welcome to the family!

S-

 

Don't know about roads in your area ... here around Boston they are terrible from the winter we just had (and the fact that all road cash is going into the big dig).

The 16s help dramatically to soften the bumps & potholes.

Lots of posts complain about the ride with 17s, and about their weight, and about their tramlining.

So I say avoid the 17s!

 

Gmack-
You didn't mention if you are getting an MC or an MCS. Since you price limit is $23,000 I will assume it is an MCS.
If there is anyway you can swing just a little more $$$ then I would highly recommend the HK option for $550 and if you add the sports package items individually without adding the 17" S-lite rims then you save $200 or so. Another option is to order all that you mention and sell your 17" S-lite rims new for whatever like $800 to $1000-minimal miles and no scratches and buy a set of aftermarket wheels for about $1050.(check out the tire and rim set at the below site - using Falken Azenis Sport 215/45-16 size) or you can go to Tirerack.com and pick out the tires of your choice to fit 16x6.5 rims, consider Yokohama AVS ES 100- they are good all around tires for street use.
For 16" rims tire size options include 195/55-16 which is stock, 205/50-16 which is common and plus one sizing-tire is close to stock in overall height but sidewall is a little lower or slightly better look and performance, or 215/45-16 for plus two sizing.
At tirerack.com
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Sizes....odel=AVS+ES100
205/50-16 Yokohama ES100 for $77 each plus shipping- in stock now. Nice tires for any 16x6.5 inch rim.

See http://www.mini-motorsport.com/suspension.php
Look at the AK Tire Monza in 16" x 6.5" offset 44 mm, they weigh about 13.9 pounds per rim compared to 25 pounds per rim with the S-lites. Also the problems you mentioned about rough ride and tramlining are associated with the run flat tires. But since the MCS has no spare you should be prepared for a flat. I have AAA and a cell phone.

 

Howdy & welcome, Gmack--

We're driving on 17"s in southern Wisco & I too feared the harshness of them would make me reach out quickly for 16"ers, - Not the case.

Our build also has all 3 packages, with the Sport Suspension Plus able to communicate enormous amounts of road-feel data, as dot-scott mentioned.

I do wish to forgo their weight, as Iancull just mentioned. There are MINI tires much lighter, which is going to add a feeling of quick horsepower to your car. Our 17"s weigh in at over 21lbs, while some of the 15 & 16'ers weigh less than 17lbs., - a big performance difference -- so I'm told.

Yet, I would never say "avoid" the 17s, as Iancull did. They're very smartly sized aestetically & neither the wife nor I have felt that they were overly hard or uncomfortable & we've traveled 5 hours at a time on them.

If I had it to do again, or if I had had a choice to begin with, I maybe would've stayed with the 16"s. 15 & 16"s are cheaper to pick-up than 17"s later. If you can't get a test drive with the suspension & 17" on the MCS, go with your money-factor for the decision. [As many people who've complained about the 17s, have been met by those who've forwarded petitions to BMW/MINI to Not alter the oil weight in the shocks.] ===> Look into the prices & availability of "NEAR NEW" MINI tires & rims on eBay. Very affordable smaller sizes, even with shipping, they're cheaper than any dealer could offer them for. Living in the midwest, I'm going to grab some & put non-runflat aggressive tires on them for winter months, so as not to have to change rims-to-tire combos.

It is a personal preference thing & often in forums the very good & very bad stand-out more than the discussions regarding more rounded topics. I don't poll everyone for an opinion on which steaks to buy at the grocery, 'cause I'm both cooking & eating them.

I do not have the HK, but "hear" it's great.
I don't have "Rain Sensing Wipers" which sound cool, but my worry there is, - if you can't sense that it's raining, you shouldn't be permitted to drive. :smile:
Xenons are most certainly more than dot-scott suggests are, "just lights."

I don't know if you've thought about it, but leasing will yield you a much smaller monthly payment, tax paid only per month of use (veries by state), rather than all up-front & you can trade, sell or buy it out of the lease at any time for $250 (via BMW). With the extraordinary residual values on these babies, I couldn't see why we would would finance it. None of the silly restrictions in the lease will apply if you sell it privately or trade it in, rather than keeping it the length of your lease & handing it back over to MINI (or whatever bank you used for the lease). Thus, mod it, drive it everyday 600 miles, who cares, you'll have great options with the MINI MCS.

Thus, I say get everything you want. Then call 'em up & tell 'em you want to see leasing numbers based on your build for 48 months (as long as MINI offers), 10k miles a year (also the lowest offered--& it will never matter if you go over 'cause you are not going to just give this back to them!, - you're going to refinance the remaining balance or sell it for a 2006 model in the fall of 2005 to someone who can just afford their 1st second-hand MCS, et cetera. Dealers are selling used MINI MCSs for more than new ones currently, or attempting to. Whether or not they are successful is less important than the fact that all their research tells them to try it in this market with THIS car. **WHAT does this mean? You just can't lose. This car is going to hold its value even better than the bank's residuals calculate! Normally one would have to spend $50k+ to get into a car that will hold its value this well. Worth the consideration. Check out Automotive Lease Guide's residual numbers for yourself, - just superb. ALL DESPITE THE "J.D. POWER" REPORTS!
The steep supply & demand curve only benefit you further in this regard.

I digress from your questions....

Good luck, all around!

-SugarBelly

_________________
MINI: The most horse for the buck!

 

Re: 17" wheels. Here's an expert commentary from the good folks at the UK's EVO magazine:

"Dickie's theory is that the bog-standard S, on 16in wheels is optimum. He explains "It rides well, steers clean and keen, doesn't sound too stressed and doesn't overwhelm the up front tyres when you flick off the ASR (DSC)."...Dickie compared it to a brick falling down stairs, a statement everyone who drove it at speed over what, in other cars, was an innocuous enough depression in the tarmac, could confirm as our heads bashed the roof."

Mind you, the suspension had been changed in this model, but they have said many times the 16" wheels are the superior for overall feel, and I agree, having driven both, but owning the 16".

Also, I was in Michigan visiting family in mid April. They live in Freeland and had an ice storm the day I came in. The last 50 miles were nasty, but I managed to get in with no trouble. Thank goodness for a manual tranny, helped an awful darn lot. Pulled away from stops in second. Anyway, I've now driven on some of the worst roads Michigan has to offer, and I would say that doing anything you can to keep your ride nice is advisable because it was abusive in mine, and I can only imagine how bad 17" wheels would be.

 

Go for the Sport package and specify the 17" performance tires. Skip the HK, as the only sound you'll need is from the screamin' supercharger. Get a set of 16" rims with winter tires from TireRack or such. Pour yourself a nice tall glass of liquid courage, and tell wifey that the Devil made ya' do it.

p.s. welcome to the tribe.

 

Thanks to everyone,

I think I'll get the premium+DSC+H/K+Fog lights and call it a day. I'm going to hopefully be able to afford some nice light 17's and some summer tires next spring. That way I can put the 16" all seasons run flats back on for winter until they wear out, and replace with a dedicated winter tire. Have sharp rims for the summer nights and tires with a little more forgiveness than the run flats. The thought of walking in the summer doesn't bother me. (That's what cell phones are far anyway !!) I probably won't miss the xenons so much when the car is out of warranty and they need repair. A set of PIAA bulbs might do just the trick.

If things go well with my MCS, I would like to retire it too a second vehicle summer status once it's paid off. They use salt here and I would like to stop exposing it to that a.s.a.p. !!! You know maybe do the pulley upgrade, and some other mods and keep as my hot rod or "sports car" if you prefer. Who knows maybe put the 16's back and go SCCA racing !!

But for now it will be my daily driver, and a good sounding stereo brings a smile to may face. The 40 lbs of extra un-sprung weight the s-lites+all seasons add to the car, despite how good they look !!!, is something I probably will not miss from the drivers seat, as much as would the Harmon Kardon.


Thanks all !!! Now if I could just figure out what color works best with v spokes, I could probably get back to sleeping at night instead of sifting through the gallery !!!

Anyone got picture of p/s with p/s roof or e/b with e/b roof and the vspokes or r87's?

 

Oh yeah 5280,

Originally this was going to be a lease. My last 2 cars and my wifes last 2 cars were both leased. I sat in the MCS at the Detroit Auto, and I liked it, but currently awaiting the end of 4 year sentence with a VW bettle 2.0 (Don't ask, still foggy from the bus totaling my miata is my story and I'm sticking to it !!) I was realy not interested in what appeared to be another quirky, weird and dare I say cute little car.
When I started to look for my next car, (the bug decision was given 17 hours of thought and the payments were less with zero down) I was determined not to make the same mistake twice. I gave the mini a run threw some websites lease calcaulator and BAM !! What a great price nearly the same as the BUG. I had some spare time one afternoon and decided to get a test drive in the S. I was blown away, it was no bug !! and the back seat that will keep me from ever going back to the miata was perfect.

Sign me up !! take my deposit !! I'll lease one, how much, ok, well I won't lease it from Mini then, but put me on the list !!!

Running the numbers around, I had to ask myself, that in 5 years do I want have a used car loan, (Since it's unlikely I will have the cash to buy it out) be in the 1st year of a new lease or have a paid off Mini of my very own to do with as I please. None of my other cars ever had the resell value of this one, that is a good point, but I'm tired of dealing with the turn in process, "no the tires aren't bald, they're used, no, the windshield isn't scratched it's seasoned !! Yes, I think the clutch is quite worn for 48,000 miles, maybe you people at VW should have put a better clutch in it !! Because I'm not going too!!!

 

oops,

I was replying to sugarbelly !!