This is on the negitive side,But I think something should be said.
This past Sunday a crash happened in the Santa Monica Mountains that didn't have to happen. I'm not going to go in to details cause I wasn't there,but luckily no one was hurt.
I own 2 MINIs and I've crashed in both of them in the past on mountain runs.You might say"This guy must be a real dork!". But One crash was into a side of a mountain going 30 MPH after a rain, hitting an oil slick.The other one happen as I was going an easy 50 MPH on a straight being a sweeper on run to Big Bear. An old lady was headed the opposite direction,bounced off a guard rail and coreened into my right of way..I clipped her right rear quarter panal. She was driving an 80 's something New Yorker. My MINI had $23000 Damage. Sux!!
I've heard about too many accidents that have happened on indivisual runs and some on club runs
Anyway my point is anything can happen,So Be SAFE,NOT SORRY!!
I just wonder How many other Clubs have had crashes and how if they try to set up guide lines to prevent them from happening ?
I know that this is not a happy topic,but it is reality.
I have lost my fun factor for twisty runs, and choose not to do them anymore. Sux..
PLEASE DRIVE CARFULLY AND HAPPY MOTORING-Mike-

 

Mike, I agree with you. I rarely do canyon runs because there is always a few people who push the envelope well beyond their limits.

 

I was on the run for the first part, but decided it was not safe and exited to go back home. The problem was that there were around 30 minis, three groups, the lead group, a 2nd group trying to catch the lead group and a slower group. It was misty, some fog, speeds were excessive and approaching twisty canyons at high speeds to then decelerate and negotiate turns when everyone is in a rush is dangerous.

The comments I read were on the web site were basically, "We slid out, had some damage, we're okay, but man did we have a great time" kinda comments. These guys are just way to crazy about their Minis and it is one-upmanship to see who can drive the fastest, take the fastest corner, and seem clueless about the real risks of this kind of driving. I take care of these individuals daily and I don't need to be one of them. Not sure sure if too many members had any real knowledge of how the group was driving. There were basically 3 groups, the lead group, the catch-up group and the slower group.
I think a death or a severe accident is inevitable if this kind of run and driving continues, someone will make a technical mistake and loose it on a curve and the club officers will be in deep s... if that happens, especially if there was speeding involved. It is now a felony in California to be involved or cause a car accident if speeding, racing, or reckless driving is associated with the accident. I doubt there would be a lot of sympathy from the press or the public if a death happened and it involved a club event with speeding and racing in the Santa Monica Mountains, n'est pas ??? These runs are not fun anymore, the risks are too high, and if you are involved in a major accident with injuries, life as you know it changes forever. Plus you are at times counting on the driving skills of the person ahead of you and behind you, most of whom I do not know or have been on a driving event with before. I don't take risks that put my physical health or well being in unnecessary danger. Someone will sustain significant injuries and an accident if this continues, just rolling dice eventually you 7-out.
I have been on my last or at least the last run on a mountain course with excessive speeds unless things drastically change, which I doubt will happen as it is the nature of the beast with a Mini. There is no way to police the driving habits of members on a mountain course. Distances develop between groups and that twisty coming up needs to be taken fast for the "thrill" and catching the lead group the "challenge". You are not attracted to a Mini purchase to drive from point A to B with fuel economy as your number one goal in purchasing the Mini, those people drive Prius.

Ciao, baby.

 

WOW, it really sounds like they were pushing it a little too hard. Runs here in Germany tend to get a "little" fast but nothing like what is being described.

 

We had a MINI crash and flip on our latest local run last month. It happened on dry roads, and within the speed limit. It came down to a small driving mistake. Nobody was badly hurt, but the MINI gave up its life to protect his occupants, and was subsequently totalled.

As a run organizer, this is something that you never want to see happen. We voted to continue on the run after the accident was cleared (everyone stopped and helped out), and I noticed that the pace, even through the twisty sections, was much more subdued. I'm sure that everyone on the run (including the speed demons) were a little bit more aware of the dangers after witnessing that incident, and I believe that caution will carry over somewhat to the next run(s) we have. Pretty good reality check, and I think we'll reinforce that on future runs.

Like you say though, there will always be a few that want to see how fast they can go. As far as I'm concerned, Runs are for fun roads and fellowship. Leave the speed contests to the track...

 

Vigilance and safety is always worth an occasional reminder. Thanks for taking the time to call these things to mind...I can almost guarantee it will save someone some sorrow and/or angst!!

 

Well said. This sounds really preschool, but it's true - it really is all fun and games until someone gets hurt. And it's not just about keeping yourself safe - nobody wants to be the driver who "accidentally" kills a family of four with stupid driving.

 

This has been an issue with me for a very long time. In fact, it is one of the first posts I had on this forum when I joined a few years back.

By the way, the little release sheet that everybody signs before a run that says the organizers, club and/or participants are not responsible for this and that is legally non binding and is absolutely USELESS in a third party claim. The fact is, every club member and/or participant can be held liable for the kid that gets smeared on his bicycle, the passenger in a MINI that crashes, or the carload of tourists that gets run off the road.

 

I just recieved a P M from a friend that did the Dragon run.Evedently there were at least 5 major insidences on that one.
Again,It's ones choice to do these runs. For me I've heard,I've seen and been in enough runs where now I choose not to partisipate.
Choose wisely..Cheers,Mike

 

A big +1! That's the precise reason I wanted to become (and am) the Performance Driving Coordinator iof PittStop Mini Club - to give members and their guests the opportunity to exercise their cars in a safe(r) place and a more educated way. I only wish we could do MORE! (there's a lot on the agenda, but wait until October we've got something that will ROCK).

I'll leave the legal wrangling to the professionals. There are things club(s) can do that limit their liability in events like this. Club officers should be aware of what these things are, and employ them visibly and publicly. That said, nothing takes away our responsibility to, well, drive responsibly.

Sounds like in the above, the Chrysler driver was driving wrongly and you were the victim - this has nothing to do with this being a Club ride, and everything to do with driving responsibly (the other driver). Was Club driving partially resposible? Were safe following distances and speeds employed, even by the "victim" Mini? All driving situations are different, all have contributing factors, and almost every one can be attributed to someone doing something that causes the event. Example: "bad weather" doesn't cause accidents, it's failure to drive appropriately (or to NOT drive) in bad weather that does.

I'll admit to driving in a sporting manner, and that some roads are Much Fun, but pushing anything approaching the limits of a Mini on a public road is inappropriate at best, can be downright idiotic (or fatal) at worst.

 

Well said.

I get my speed fixes on the track. I may drive in the more spirited crowd on the club drives, but I know that I am well within the limits of me and my car, which can only be learned on the track.

 

Mikey, there were two major incidents on the Dragon, which were not related to any organized runs, but rather occurred to individual MINIs that were just driving on their own. I don't know about the 3 other incidents, but I've been to every Dragon since 2003, and while there have been some accidents involving MINIs, there have been no serious injuries.

I don't like to motor with more than 4-5 other MINIs because of the behavior you described in the Santa Monica Mountains run. Just isn't fun to feel pushed or like you must play catch-up when large groups inevitably get scattered.

I like the camaraderie and seeing folks have fun, but fast driving belongs on the track.

 

I was on that run and didn't really notice that people were pushing the limits. In fact I had my arm out the window most of the time because I was bored. I ended the run early because my girlfriend and I were getting car sick from the slow pace, sharp corners and lack of food. The run did have some fun parts and I enjoyed meeting everyone and seeing 30 mini's with H.I.D.'s crusing down PCH. but 108miles is way too long for me.
I felt bad for the father and son that crashed but I'm very happy they were ok. I was two cars behind him when his car understeered on a sharp right hand uphill turn. His car went straight, off the road and came to rest on a gaurd rail. I did notice the guy was going quickly, but had stock tires, and suspenion. I would have found the run real hard if I was running stock, like he did.

 

Selection of tires and suspension all play a huge roll in situations like that. He probably was going a tad too fast, but we've all been there. It's unfortunate and lets leave it at that. The run as a whole was fun, and you can choose to attend or stick behind. I enjoy pushing my car, and aside for a few minutes here and there, I don't feel that the run went out of control at any time.

All of these events are drive at your own pace. If you feel the need to drive beyond your limits, blaming the club for your accident is just silly. Drive at 80%. I'm 20, i've never been to the track, and I obviously have limited driving experiance. Do I push myself sometimes? Of course... but I don't do anything stupid, and I use my head while i'm driving and make sure I don't put myself, or anyone else into a situation that's excessivly dangerous.

There are people on this board that think going 80 on the freeway is dangerous, there are also people on this board that would happily do 180 on the same road without batting an eye. Drive however YOU feel comfortable.

I wasn't there for 2/3's of the run because I stopped to help the person that hit the rail and stayed there with another driver until the tow truck came to make sure both him and his son got off on their way.

If you felt group 1 (The group was called the hair on fire group, did you really think we'd be going 15 MPH through the canyons?) was going too fast, go to group 2!

 

Years ago, a friend of mine was head of SAJO (Sacramento Area Jensen Owners), and during a club outing into the Sierra Foothills, a motor home cut the apex on a curve, and slammed head on into a Jensen-Healey driven by a pair of members, killing them both.

Running a tour is like running a convoy. You MUST lead the tour at the level of the slowest drivers, otherwise it gets all strung out, and some folks get antsy about catching up.

In my MG club days, we had a couple almost buy it. He let her drive his MGB, which she was unfamiliar with. She got a couple wheels on the dirt shoulder, over corrected, skidded, flipped a few times, and came to rest across a barbed wire fence. Luckily he had a roll bar installed. Both were in hospital for awhile, but lived.

They're out there, and probably, they're in here too. Eyes open people.

 

For many MINI owners, driving is always done very safely and within bounds of speed limits and local laws. Respect is paid to adverse weather conditions as appropriate.

For other drivers that enjoy spirited driving in stock or modified MINIs, their best bet is to sign up and attend various driving schools to develop or advance their driving skills under all driving conditions and on any road surface. Accidents and mishaps can still occur but it's alot safer for both MINI and persons in the car as well as for other drivers on the road.

I can honestly say that when I first bought my MINI I thought I knew how to drive pretty good. But after many driving school events, many track days/lapping sessions, and three years of autocross that I am much much better at street driving.

It also takes more skill to drive a stock MINI at it's limit than with a modified MINI with performance non runflat tires.

Be safe out there.

 

I have driven on 2 runs and was in the pokey group both times. Once by accident I ended up in a middle group and just pulled over to let everyone pass me. Then I got lost. I find runs more stressful than fun. What I enjoy are the get togethers before and after and the convey part prior to the twisties. The spirited runs exceed my comfort level. I have mild ADD and the amount of concentration required on a twisty run was enough to give me a headache. When people schedule convoys, I'll participate. Twisty runs are too much for me. If someone else wants to blast through the twisties, I wish them well.

 

I agree that a driver can set his or her own pace and should only do so within one's own abilities - on a track! After all, if a person wants to push the envelope a little too far and kill himself, so be it - natural selection and all. But unfortunately we are talking about runs on open roads that we share with pedestrians, bicyclists, and other motorists. Putting others at risk is pure stupidity. There is no safe way to go 80 on a 15 MPH bend, regardless of how skilled you may be. PERIOD.

 

rustyboy155, how old did you say you were? Been pretty funny if the guy and his son lost it in an area without a guard rail. And yes, people were going through the corners a little faster than 15MPH. You wanna take on the responsibility of someone having an accident? Get some broad coverage insurance! The SM Mtns, are not the place to press your luck or max out your cerebral capabilities or your mini. Majority of corners are without guard rails. Nuff said, the guy and his son were lucky, if he had been in more control it would not have happened! And if he lost it on a corner without a guard rail, different story. You by yourself, take it as fast as you want, on a cruise, you back off.

 

Agree with your comments, especially about the guard rails. On The Dragon, there are few guard rails, but it's in a forest and several times the trees have actually saved drivers from tumbling too far down the mountain (the bikers haven't been so lucky), and kept folks from landing in the river. The terrain in the SM Mountains is really different and the roads are shared with bicyclists, motorcyclists, and casual, slower-driving, enjoying-the-beauty Sunday drivers. It's really not anyone's private track...

 

And the guard rail could just as easily have been a kid on a bike!

 

Hi Clover,How are you??
Here's a is a list of things she discribed to me about during and after the " Dragon Run".
Her friend from Texas dumped her Cabrio on it's side. Luckily not too much damage to her MINI,but she had some scratches.
One MINI spun and rolled..they had to goe to the hospital..That one was bad.
A MINI from QUEENS went off the road on the inside and up a bolder.It took out the radiator.They were able to patch it up so he could drive home.
One MINI hit a deer on the way to the Midnight Run.
Oh,and a Atlanta man hit a large GROUND HOG on his way home. It took out his AeroKit bumper.
Those were the highlights of the MINI damage.There may have been a few more.She said..

So that's what I've heard. Crashes can happen any place at any time...

So some have said have replied that a driving school is good to take.In which I agree,But does not take away the factor of not getting into a crash. I done Spring Mountain in NV. 3 times. Willow Springs big and Streets 4 times. Button Willow once. And Laguna Seca once.

My point is bad things can still happen,even if one has the learned skills from a school.

BE SAFE IN ALL YOU DRIVING SITUATIONS...................

 

well i have read everyones posts in this thread up to mine. I will start by saying I was on this run, i was in the "fast group".I also should point out i know these roads vrey well because i'm a local. I have to say i am always saddend by someones loss,club run or not though, accidents always happen, and to not participate in a run because you are worried about it is silly. Don't drive anyware then, take the bus!
On this run as you all know NOW there was an accident. I did not see it but drove by after it had occured. I will not pass any judgement on what went wrong or if it could have been avoided. I will however pass judgement on members who WERE NOT THERE and are bad mouthing the club and the driver involved when they have no firsthand knowledge of the accident. There is one person in this thread in my opinion who really needs to apologize to our club and the driver involved. The reason for this is simple. I shot video that day, this is a small part of that video. This was soon after the start and well before the accident.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrfH7zqQSXI
As you can see the car leaves our lane, crosses the double yellow completely out of camera view then back into our lane. We were traveling at maybe 5mph over the posted speed limit for this corner and there were no cyclists on the road. Absolutely no reason to go over the double yellow. No one was playing catch up, no one was pushing him. This driver is the very same driver who has posted in here claiming he started with the run and left because he desided it was unsafe to participate in. He also states he will not participate in another event till things change. GOOD I DON"T WANT TO SEE YOU DIE IN A HEAD ON COLLISION!!!!
I want to give thanks in here to Rustyboy155. He missed out on the majority of the run because he stuck by his fellow member when they needed him. He may be only 20 but if you read his posts and have met him you would know, he has a good head on his shoulders. I had the pleasure of meeting him on the very last strech of our run and was glad he joined us for lunch. He is an asset to our club and we could all learn something from him.

 

...goodbye...

 

This is on public roads correct?