OK, see, that is funny...

 

In seconds:

From 19 to 20 seconds I touched the line. At 22 to 23 I touched it again and crossed over. Yes that's bad driving. It wasn't intentional but it happened. I've since taken driving school at Willow Springs to improve upon the weaknesses I had back then and I continue to practice better driving both on the street and the track.

 

1.) correct

2.) correct again

And I edited the two scenes together for the teaser to make it more dramatic. The scenes of the two way lanes was on the way up the mountain as we were getting to Tuna Canyon. As I mentioned to Chow4us, now that I've looked at my own video again, I can see where people are thinking that I'm promoting bad driving. It's not the same reckless driving where I'm passing or using excessive speed, but nonetheless, it highlighted a weakness of trying to shoot a video while driving the canyons. I've talked to other filmmakers who say they won't ever use a camera at the wheel because the risks of showing you touching or crossing the line is just too great. I tend to agree.

 

OK. like I said, I just thought it was still the one way road and wrote it off as such.

I'd say this although it has nothing to do with movie making ... I have been pulled over, once, for touching the double yellow line. 5 AM in a major city after driving 8 hours straight to get to my destination. No one else on the road. He wasn't going to ticket me for touching the yellow but rather thought I may have been drinking. After he talked to me for like 30 seconds, cleary I had not, nor was I speeding, just tired from driving all night (yes, not a good idea) and he just said let your wife drive for awhile or something like that.

Its a matter of "perception". People perceptions are there "reality". You live and learn and clearly stated youve been to class, etc. Sounds OK to me.

 

Unbeleivable . I was there . There was nothing to warrent all this attention. If YOU were there and think something different please speak up. If you weren't there then you are just making bad guesses. At the bottom of that hill , no one had smoking brakes or tires , something which is normal for that streatch of road. We were just documenting a drive on the hills not making a action video. I've done both, I know the differance.

randy
M7 tuning

 

I think the original intent of this thread is exactly what maxmini is getting at, but from the other side. The problem is that most of us were not there. All we have to go by is what we see on the video. So, what responsibility does a videographer (is that the right word) have in making the video represent what really happened?

If the video has been edited to make it look different from reality, is it fair for people to say something like "If you weren't there then you are just making bad guesses." Isn't the intent of the video to lead us to our bad guesses?

 

SNID
But the video was made for entertainment! That's the key issue here.
It's not a documentation of reality and especially not the teaser. I colorized the video, processed it through a film process to enhance the colors, and put on a simulated 16x9 crop to make it look more cinematic. I edited it for maximum impact. The sound was enhanced, filtered, and processed. The scenes were cut to the music. The footage I acquired was nothing extraordinary, but the way I shot it was unique as very few people had done that in the MINI community back when this was first released.

Maxmini
Thank you Maxmini for speaking up.

 

Looks more like a marketing tool

 

Heh, well it kind of worked out that way in the long run, but remember it was made while I was still developing the VacuCams, and it was shot using a bunch of jerry rigged equipment--wireless cameras sitting on cardboard boxes taped to my car, etc...

In fact at the time, there was a number of us on NAM trying to develop a working system, so the video was definitely made before any thoughts of marketing a real consumer friendly system.

 

Now that I understand whats going on, my opinion.

You have complete literary license to embellish your final product anyway you choose. By creating it, its your copyright. If you sell the product (DVD), then appropriate warning should be on it (e.g., some driving may not be legal in all states or whatever, don't try this at home ...). Speed it up, NP. Add some interesting graphics, NP. You are creating the material. To be fair, you got to let the buyers know what they are buying. ... you closed the road ... you sped it up for effect, etc.

Your marketing your product and the buyer should know what they are getting. As long as they know that this isn't necessarily "reality" or reality video, I think its cool.

As to NAM, you follow the rules, Mark owns it, you said you had no issue with that. Looks like all is good to me.

 

Sorry... I guess I keyed in on this sentence in your first post: "To what extent as filmmakers are we permitted to make something more exciting?" while that wasn't the most important one in your mind.

My reading of the thread was like this:

#1: "How exciting can we make a video?"

#2: "Your exciting video is too exciting!"

#3: "Why are you guys complaining about the video being to exciting? You weren't there so you don't know what really happened!"

#4: "Why make a video show things as more exciting than they are then get grumpy when people think the video shows more exciting stuff than it really does? Wasn't that the point?"

Just some misinterpretation. Carry on!

 

I'm a little lost, but I get your point. I think.

I wasn't grumpy, but I did get a little excited when I discovered that my work was being criticized for something it wasn't, and then the next thing I know, NAM is being held responsible for this, then I get notified by NAM that my video has come to the end of its life, all because of a series of posts based on something that wasn't entirely true.

I think enthusiasm and criticism can go hand in hand in anything that we produce, but the problem which many vendors on NAM face is that a single person can start a rumour, and in matter of hours, it suddenly becomes fact and just snowballs.

The fact my video got pulled into the mud as debate flew across about a videographer who documented his illegal and dangerous practices is reason enough to get a little excited IMO.

Did I miss the point again? I think I may still be lost....

 

This is what ends up happening when people think in and deal with absolutes.

To those people I will ask: Have you, at any time in your motoring life, crossed the yellow line, went above the posted limit, neglected to turn your lights on when instructed in two-way traffic or any other transgressions? If so, why are you still out in public creating a menace? TURN YOURSELF IN! After all, you broke the letter of the law, performed a criminal act(s). The law is absolute. Support the Municipality, etc.

From now on, any videos posted on or for sale by NAM should be cinematic masterpieces a la Ken Burns showing magnificent zooms and pans of still pictures of parked cars and whatnot just to be safe. No music, unless you create your own or use royalty-free stuff often heard during corporate presentations of fiscal performance. No sounds clips. After all, your MINI could sound like mine. And so on.

Where does it end?

The responsible part of me says that one should strike a balance between responsible acts and 'no harm, no foul'.

 

Great Bear has spoken. And he is right.

 

No more than I am.

Like I tried to say, I'm just keying in to the fact that there's the reality of what happened while the cameras were rolling, and the perception of what people see on the finished product. Basically everyone will only have the latter to go on, so people making videos need to remember that.

It would suck to have to put those little disclaimers on the bottom of videos, huh?

 

SNID
Well I did consult a lawyer before I made the video for sale and he advised me to put a disclaimer on the video advising people to motor safely, responsibly, and wear their seatbelts. So the video does start with that.

GREATBEAR
Very well said. Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap.

Richard

 

All hail Greatbear!!

 

Damn it, GreatBear. I hope you don't have similar ideas for ****.

 

You all need some valium... :-)

 

Which side of the double yellow is the MINI on??????????????????????



I know NAM has its guidelines, and I respect those. Also I know that the guidelines are as such that there is a lot open to interpretation. And I think the question that the first post proposed, that I haven't seen an direct answer for, is where is the line in the sand?


Does that photo promote speeding? It is a race car.


Does it show the car crossing the yellow line? The yellow is to the drivers right based on that photo.


I don't think there is always a clear distinction of what is done for entertainment and what is docuentary. Do videographers (and photographers) now need to disclose the details of the techniques used (Dave I know you don't always want to share your secrets)?
Do I need to add a disclaimer to MINI photos I posted of MINIs clearly over the double yellow in a parade, and all the killboy and other photos posted of a NAM members at the Dragon on or over the line? Like Greatbear said, where does it end?


I was under the impression that Camera, Photo and Video, was intended for entertainment and the showcase of member's talents, MINI Talk, Road Racing and so on for Documentaries. Is that an incorrect interpertation?

I know more gas on the fire.

 

Thank you Greatbear

 

It's been a while since I've ventured over to the westside mountains but, if I remember Tuna Canyon Road correctly, it's one of those that, at one time, was a two-laner.
Probably after some rainstorm set off landslides it was then turned into a one-way road without anyone bothering to remove signs or yellow lines. I remember there even being a stop sign in the middle of nowhere, which I stopped at, despite it seeming redundant for that road, at that time and considering cross and oncoming traffic was impossible.

I don't know if it's still a one-way with the two-way remnants still there but it was a single-direction road when I drove it with several other MINIacs.

-Juan

 

When it comes to ****, I leave very few lines un-crossed.

 

 

Thanks for the clarification. I haven't been back since I shot that video and that was well over 2 years ago. Hmm or maybe I did go back once more, but it's definitely been over a year since I was last there.

Richard