not more power but dont want to void warranty - North American Motoring

Go Back  North American Motoring > 3rd Generation MINIs > JCW Garage
not more power but dont want to void warranty >

not more power but dont want to void warranty

not more power but dont want to void warranty

  #1  
Old 03-07-2019, 08:52 PM
emans
emans is offline
2nd Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 67
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
not more power but dont want to void warranty

I just got into a 2019 F56JCW . There is definitely a bit more power but I think it really could use more. Seeing that I'm leasing the car, is there anything I can put on that the dealers can't find out about?

also, I used to hear the waste gate "whoosh" on on my old r56 and don't hear that anymore now. anyway to get that back?

Thanks!
 
  #2  
Old 03-08-2019, 03:42 AM
rsinsheimer
rsinsheimer is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Posts: 25
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Anything you do under the hood is a warranty violation.

There are boxes of varying levels of sophistication that can be temporarily installed on your engine that will make a bit more “oomph”.

YMMV, in my opinion they aren’t worth the risk to your lease / warranty.

This is the curse of leasing a car, it’s not really yours,

— Roger
 
  #3  
Old 03-08-2019, 06:16 AM
Mini_Vinnie's Avatar
Mini_Vinnie
Mini_Vinnie is offline
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,375
Thanked 176 Times in 148 Posts
no BOV, you wont hear a whoosh .... thank god
 
  #4  
Old 03-08-2019, 08:54 AM
elsnaibs's Avatar
elsnaibs
elsnaibs is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 127
Thanked 30 Times in 22 Posts
The Dinan Elite can be installed by the dealer and doesn't void the warranty. I don't know if the rules are different for a lease, however.
 
  #5  
Old 03-08-2019, 09:36 AM
rsinsheimer
rsinsheimer is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Posts: 25
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
<<<The Dinan Elite can be installed by the dealer and doesn't void the warranty. I don't know if the rules are different for a lease, however.>>>

Assuming your MINI dealer is a Dinan dealer. Mine is not.
 
  #6  
Old 03-08-2019, 09:48 AM
DneprDave's Avatar
DneprDave
DneprDave is offline
6th Gear
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 3,193
Thanked 48 Times in 44 Posts
Originally Posted by rsinsheimer View Post
Anything you do under the hood is a warranty violation.


That's not true. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, prohibits manufacturers from denying or voiding a warranty for using aftermarket parts on your car.

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011...ermarket-parts
 
  #7  
Old 03-08-2019, 09:54 AM
elsnaibs's Avatar
elsnaibs
elsnaibs is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 127
Thanked 30 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
That's not true. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, prohibits manufacturers from denying or voiding a warranty for using aftermarket parts on your car.

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011...ermarket-parts
\Yup, I have a bunch of stuff done under the hood on my 2017, no issues with service and warranty work at the dealership.
 
  #8  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:02 AM
rsinsheimer
rsinsheimer is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Posts: 25
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
<<<That's not true. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, prohibits manufacturers from denying or voiding a warranty for using aftermarket parts on your car. >>>

That's very nice in theory. Having been there, done that, the reality is that being in the middle between Dinan and MINI is a very, very unpleasant place to be. Neither one wants to give an inch, and you really don't want to take either of them to court.

-- Roger
 
  #9  
Old 03-08-2019, 10:11 AM
RLM
RLM is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 60
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by DneprDave View Post
That's not true. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, prohibits manufacturers from denying or voiding a warranty for using aftermarket parts on your car.

https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2011...ermarket-parts

"The dealer/vehicle manufacturer has the right to deny a warranty repair but they must demonstrate that the aftermarket part caused the problem" This is straight from that link. Lets say your car develops a problem with the turbo, MINI has the right to void warranty on that part if you have a mod that increases boost. same with damage to internal engine components in the case of boost mods. what they cant do, is void overall vehicle warranty and not replace a wheel bearing due to a boost mod which is what they used to try and do.

Also a point of clarification, the DINAN modules DO VOID MINI WARRANTY (if they can say that the mod could have caused the damage, see above). DINAN however, will then take care of you after MINI officially denies the warranty request (assuming you get the elite and not the sport). This is something unique to DINAN and why many people choose to go the route of DINAN elite.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to RLM For This Useful Post:
pjsjr13 (03-08-2019)
  #10  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:16 PM
KYDan's Avatar
KYDan
KYDan is offline
4th Gear
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Frankfort Kentucky USA
Posts: 429
Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts
I have had the NM module on my JCW since early 2016. It is a plug and play that takes 15 minutes to install or remove. It does leave a footprint, but it is really hard to prove anything was there. It gave me and extra 30 horsepower and corresponding torque. It made a very impressive difference and my dealer knows I have it and never mentioned it. I forgot and left on one visit. My JCW now has 44,000 miles on it and I have had zero issues with it. I installed the JCW PRO exhaust and with it and the module 269 horsepower and 285 foot pounds of torque. A proper little beastie and the sound is much better as well. This is on the low setting running 93 octane Shell. I have run it with TORCO to boost it to 100 octane with it on the high setting and there is a difference, but based on the butt dyno it is not that much more noticeable.
 
  #11  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:27 PM
rsinsheimer
rsinsheimer is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ventura County, California
Posts: 25
Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts
"The dealer/vehicle manufacturer has the right to deny a warranty repair but they must demonstrate that the aftermarket part caused the problem" This is straight from that link. Lets say your car develops a problem with the turbo, MINI has the right to void warranty on that part if you have a mod that increases boost. same with damage to internal engine components in the case of boost mods. what they cant do, is void overall vehicle warranty and not replace a wheel bearing due to a boost mod which is what they used to try and do.

Also a point of clarification, the DINAN modules DO VOID MINI WARRANTY (if they can say that the mod could have caused the damage, see above). DINAN however, will then take care of you after MINI officially denies the warranty request (assuming you get the elite and not the sport). This is something unique to DINAN and why many people choose to go the route of DINAN elite.


That works exactly up to the point where Dinan says they're not responsible and MINI says they're not responsible. Which is exactly where I am right now.

When everything goes fine with your performance-boosting feature, whatever that might be, which happens 99+% of the time, you get the benefit of a somewhat more spritely MINI -- and more power (hah!) to you. I'm one of the unlucky few who is stuck in the valley between the two companies, neither of which is giving an inch. Meanwhile (and this has been going on for months, with countless visits to my dealer (which is not an Dinan shop) and Dinan's local rep') everyone has been very civil and no one is taking ownership of the Check Engine Light on my dash.

To be clear, Dinan insists the fault was caused by MINI, MINI says the fault was caused by the Dinan Elite.

So yes, ideally, it will be a cut and dried situation and the "ownership" of the issue will be clear. That is not always the case.

So, my warning, such as it is, is that when things don't go as you might expect with your mod don't think that citing the relevant law will make anyone budge. They know it's not enough money for you to hire a lawyer, but it's enough to be a huge pain in the rear (and wallet). And MINI has the extra hammer (at least in my case) of saying that if you force them to fix it they'll void your engine warranty because you made an unauthorized modification to the engine. And, yes, they do flag VINs for this sort of thing.

<<<The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, prohibits manufacturers from denying or voiding a warranty for using aftermarket parts on your car.>>>

I think this is a yes and no situation. If you modify the engine outside of the configuration that it left that factory (obviously that's subject to interpretation) then all bets are off.

To use an example not relevant to my case, let's say you put a huge turbo on your engine and push the effective compression ratio to 20:1 and the bottom end of the engine explodes under the load. You can't just say "I didn't touch the crank, you fix it under warranty." That's not going to fly and you know it.

-- Roger
 

Last edited by rsinsheimer; 03-08-2019 at 04:24 PM.
  #12  
Old 03-08-2019, 01:43 PM
RLM
RLM is offline
2nd Gear
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 60
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Out of curiosity, what code is your car throwing, or did physical damage occur to your engine?
 
  #13  
Old 03-08-2019, 04:19 PM
dpcompt's Avatar
dpcompt
dpcompt is offline
5th Gear
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 664
Thanked 15 Times in 13 Posts
Niello will no longer install the Dinan products. I called them and the serivice advisor told me the bad news.
 
  #14  
Old 03-08-2019, 06:31 PM
cmt52663
cmt52663 is offline
6th Gear
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,390
Thanked 40 Times in 33 Posts
We've drifted a bit from the point though, have we not? A lease involves a contract, and that may have terms that are quite apart from warranty or Magnuson Moss.

Check the fine print oh wise OP.

FYI I do run the Dinan Elite - dealer installed. But I bought the car, didn't lease it.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
  #15  
Old 03-08-2019, 07:15 PM
peterpan101's Avatar
peterpan101
peterpan101 is offline
3rd Gear
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 214
Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts
I had a Dinan sport and aftermarket exhaust on my Clubman that was a lease. Dealer knew and was fine with it. Put back to stock and turned in last week and no problems (even got a refund check!) As stated, as long as nothing goes wrong you're good, but that goes for any new car bought or leased.
 
  #16  
Old 03-09-2019, 03:53 AM
El-Grunto's Avatar
El-Grunto
El-Grunto is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by RLM View Post
Out of curiosity, what code is your car throwing, or did physical damage occur to your engine?
I'm curious about that too. My car threw out a P12A9 a few days ago which is for possible high boost pressure after having the Elite for 3k miles. I contacted Dinan and they told be to install the bypass, clear the fault code, and to drive it 100 miles and get back to them. I did that and told them the CEL hadn't come back. They asked for a copy of the invoice after which receiving they'd ship a new module. It's been pretty easy going for me so far. Granted, this isn't a blown motor so I don't have Dinan and Mini fighting with each other over who's fault it is. But Dinan took responsibility for the CEL as soon as I confirmed it was gone after driving with the bypass on for a while.
 
  #17  
Old 03-09-2019, 05:05 AM
663
663 is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 46
Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
My experience has been the dealer will deny warranty coverage at the drop of a hat while laughing. My local dealer has a service manager who is not available to customers, under any circumstances, and “advisors” who are under 30 and know nothing about cars. Curiously, the service department advertises they work on any car by any manufacturer. In my view, about 10% of their techs are competent to work on Minis. The business is run by a wealthy Millennial and the business model revolves around sales and leasing. Service and warranty issues are barely a blip on the radar. Caveat emptor. Know what you are getting into and how a local dealer operates.
 
  #18  
Old 03-09-2019, 01:53 PM
2017All4's Avatar
2017All4
2017All4 is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: California Native still livin' in LaLa Land
Posts: 1,495
Thanked 136 Times in 128 Posts
Originally Posted by rsinsheimer View Post
Anything you do under the hood is a warranty violation.
— Roger
Maybe. But not necessarily.
The common wisdom is definitely "buyer beware." Any mods not done by the dealer should be assumed to be at buyer's risk. Lease or purchase is not really material during the warranty period.

HOWEVER, the burden is on the dealer to determine exactly how a mod caused a problem. They cannot lawfully unilaterally deny warranty coverage without explaining exactly why. Gotta determine cause and effect.

Where is gets sticky is when the dealer says, "your tuner box caused the turbo to fail." Then you've got to say "prove it," and be willing, at your or Dinan's or NM's or Race Chip's or JB's expense, to prove that the box didn't cause the turbo to fail.

In these uncommon cases where Dinan or some other mod maker says it's MINI's issue and MINI says it's Dinan's issue, there comes a point where each side needs to validate their respective positions. If Dinan says it's not their issue, it seems to me they have some burden of proof -- they have to answer to MINI's assertion that it's a Dinan problem. Dinan can't simply say, "It's not our issue." They've got to say WHY it's a MINI issue or they need to pony up, when faced with MINI's claim that it's a Dinan issue.

These nightmares do pop up and it amazes many of us that both MINI and Dinan would create bad will when these situations present opportunities to create good will. But it does happen and people need to understand the risks assumed when modding ANY part of their MINI.

The name of the game is to get in the conversation with the right person who is in a position to solve the problem. I assume everyone, including the owner of the dealership or the head of Dinan, is available to speak with me if others have not been able to resolve my concern. In a case where a dealership service manager is "unavailable," I'd be on the phone to MINI USA asking to be put in contact with a regional MINI rep to help me resolve a service issue at a dealership where the dealership management refused to speak with me.

I'd always be polite, but I wouldn't go away. And I'd be honest -- if I'd been abusing my MINI, I'd cop to it. But if I was just motoring along with my Dinan box and something went wonky that shouldn't have gone wonky, I would expect to get satisfaction under somebody's warranty umbrella. With the caveat that, when I plugged in my Dinan, I was assuming risk.
 
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to 2017All4 For This Useful Post:
pjsjr13 (03-09-2019), rsinsheimer (03-10-2019)
  #19  
Old 03-12-2019, 04:46 PM
emans
emans is offline
2nd Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 67
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
thanks for all the answers, I think I'll just stick to stock then. It's a big risk that I don't want to deal with just for a little more power.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to emans For This Useful Post:
dpcompt (03-12-2019)
  #20  
Old 03-13-2019, 09:35 AM
2017All4's Avatar
2017All4
2017All4 is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: California Native still livin' in LaLa Land
Posts: 1,495
Thanked 136 Times in 128 Posts
Originally Posted by emans View Post
thanks for all the answers, I think I'll just stick to stock then. It's a big risk that I don't want to deal with just for a little more power.
Life is all about managing risk. You are wise to reflect upon this.

FWIW, the JCW engines are tuned to put out way less than the ones they're bolting into everyday mom-and-pop BMW SUV's. Other than the occasional weird drivability issues that have cropped up with a few tuner box users, many have enjoyed the extra performance without issue. And, in some instances, the issues reported turned out to be bad sensors that had nothing to do with the plug-in box.

If you want a little extra kick, and you're planning on turning in your car at lease-end while it's still well in warranty, before you walk away from the thrill of that extra kick, maybe give Dinan a call and clarify with them exactly how they deal with any issues if a car with a Dinan Elite plug-in acts up. Evaluate the vibe you get from Dinan.

My MINI is leased. I've had the low-end Dinan Sport Tuner in for over 2 years -- had the car in for scheduled service twice with the box right there for the technicians to see. No issues, except that the techs want to drive the car to see for themselves what the Dinan difference really is. And there is a difference, especially between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM.
 
  #21  
Old 03-13-2019, 11:48 PM
emans
emans is offline
2nd Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 67
Thanks: 0
Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by 2017All4 View Post
Life is all about managing risk. You are wise to reflect upon this.

FWIW, the JCW engines are tuned to put out way less than the ones they're bolting into everyday mom-and-pop BMW SUV's. Other than the occasional weird drivability issues that have cropped up with a few tuner box users, many have enjoyed the extra performance without issue. And, in some instances, the issues reported turned out to be bad sensors that had nothing to do with the plug-in box.

If you want a little extra kick, and you're planning on turning in your car at lease-end while it's still well in warranty, before you walk away from the thrill of that extra kick, maybe give Dinan a call and clarify with them exactly how they deal with any issues if a car with a Dinan Elite plug-in acts up. Evaluate the vibe you get from Dinan.

My MINI is leased. I've had the low-end Dinan Sport Tuner in for over 2 years -- had the car in for scheduled service twice with the box right there for the technicians to see. No issues, except that the techs want to drive the car to see for themselves what the Dinan difference really is. And there is a difference, especially between 2,000 and 3,000 RPM.
I hear you and you're right. But I've had dealers void my warrantee over an exhaust in the past. It's not legal but it is. I wanted to see if that was something I could put on the car that left no trace. But I guess in these modern times, everything leave a trace.
 
The Following User Says Thank You to emans For This Useful Post:
2017All4 (03-14-2019)
  #22  
Old 03-14-2019, 07:26 AM
2017All4's Avatar
2017All4
2017All4 is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: California Native still livin' in LaLa Land
Posts: 1,495
Thanked 136 Times in 128 Posts
Originally Posted by emans View Post
I hear you and you're right. But I've had dealers void my warrantee over an exhaust in the past. It's not legal but it is. I wanted to see if that was something I could put on the car that left no trace. But I guess in these modern times, everything leave a trace.
Everything leaves a trace. In the case of plug in boxes, it takes a lot of deep reading of the car's computer to find that trace, but, yes, Big Brother sees all if he wants to look hard enough.

Enjoy your great car, and thanks for starting this useful thread. Always good to revisit these questions. Cheers!
 
  #23  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:38 AM
TheBigNewt
TheBigNewt is offline
OVERDRIVE
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,146
Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
I'd leave it stock if it's a lease especially. Plus, there is more than one thread dissing the Dinan box even when the dealer installed it. The thing sort of disabled some guy's car, and the dealer told the guy he had to deal with Dinan to get the $400 back and they told him to shove it. It was WAY more trouble than it was worth. I had a tune put on my JCW and it's more powerful but to be honest I don't use it that much. The JCW is plenty fast as it is IMO.
 
  #24  
Old 03-17-2019, 11:11 PM
El-Grunto's Avatar
El-Grunto
El-Grunto is offline
1st Gear
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 31
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Originally Posted by TheBigNewt View Post
I'd leave it stock if it's a lease especially. Plus, there is more than one thread dissing the Dinan box even when the dealer installed it. The thing sort of disabled some guy's car, and the dealer told the guy he had to deal with Dinan to get the $400 back and they told him to shove it. It was WAY more trouble than it was worth. I had a tune put on my JCW and it's more powerful but to be honest I don't use it that much. The JCW is plenty fast as it is IMO.
On the other hand Dinan was very helpful when I had issues with their Elite on my S. It's all anecdotal but it goes both ways.
 
  #25  
Old 03-18-2019, 03:51 PM
TheBigNewt
TheBigNewt is offline
OVERDRIVE
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,146
Thanks: 0
Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts
Originally Posted by El-Grunto View Post
On the other hand Dinan was very helpful when I had issues with their Elite on my S. It's all anecdotal but it goes both ways.
The thing is that both you and that guy "had issues" with it. He said his car would hardly run and he took it to his dealer like 3 times before anyone disconnected the Dinan (which I think is the first thing I'd do, it's easy). That fixed the car.

 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: not more power but dont want to void warranty


Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: