Then there clearly is no demand for the car. It's simple economics my friend. Supply and demand. If there is a demand for something that is in short supply you will pay more. The only limitations are VW not letting dealers sell for more than MSRP or a possibly a friend deal.

 

Seriously?

 

I mean no disrespect but that comment is one of the most uninformed, ludicrous comments I have ever heard on NAM.

 

Yeah but it's still much more rare car than the .:R. I think the JCW is technically a "limited production" car though.

And just because the crank numbers are a lot higher on the .:R doesn't mean the whp is that much better, especially including weight. There's a 20-25% drivetrain loss in an AWD car, while 10-15% in a FWD car. So actual whp is about 205 for the .:R, and ~187 for the JCW.

JCW = 14.2 lbs/whp
.:R = 15.9 lbs/whp

I really don't think the .:R is going to much quicker out of the box, if at all. Off the line, maybe.

 

Not to mention, the .:R is a pig. it weighs more than my 04 Passat Variant did, and that was twice the size.

 

If initial numbers are correct, we're talking about a 700 pound difference between the R and the JCW. Pretty huge difference...

 

I agree, the R is very heavy for the size of the car, so that should have been one of the cons. Their at no cars that come to mind that have 4 seats with the power and come close to weighing as little as the JCW.

 

I agree with you to a certain point, the JCW I ordered was bought below MSRP. Some dealers just want to sell cars, service is the bread and butter for most of them. On the other hand, I had a dealer tell me I would never get below MSRP on ordering a 2012 JCW.
I am going today to go talk to a local VW dealer that I don't know and see what they will quote on the R. Will be interesting to see where they are starting.

 

Or with a power at the ground ratio that's as good. Strictly by the numbers a 335 is almost as good as an M3...until you run the power through the gears ratios. Same thing here. The JCWs really are hard to beat without spending supercar money.

 

I was having the same debate about 6 months ago. However, the timing wasn't right for me and I needed to make a car move. So, the decision was easier. I bought a used 2009 JCW with 16K on it.

Like others I have had many cars...most of them within the VW/Audi Family (Corrado, MKIII Gti Vr6, 2001 Audi S4, MkIV Jetta Gli, MK5 Jetta, 2002 Audi TT). I have also driven multiple times the MK6 Gti and the old MkV R32 and MkIV R32.

My take away is this. The Golf R will be very nice. It will feel quiet and easy driving at speed on the highway. Around town it will have that german taught feel to it while being pretty compliant still. All VW's tend to feel a bit isolated from the road while still transmitting information. However, it is not as connected as some people would like.

It will also be a fantastic year rounder with decent tires if you live in a snow area.

The Mini JCW is a frenetic little car. It feels like a darty go cart ALL the time. In fact, it reminded me of a MK2 VW GTI vr6 conversion which are absolute hoots to drive. This makes the JCW very fun all the time.....complete with all the idiosyncracies you either love or hate of front wheel drive cars. I think it was that motor trend article that said "the JCW exhibits all the best and worst things about front drivers at the same time. It is easy to see why some people fall in love with their personalities." I think that's pretty accurate. The con side for the JCW is exactly that. It is a noisy little car demanding of your attention. You WILL be actively driving it all the time and you will feel the road...both good and bad things.

As far as modding goes. The Golf R tuning community is much larger. The motor is 2.0L. Our Mini's are 1.6's. There is a different feel to them.

In the end it will come down to what you are going to do with the car and what type of drive you desire. They are both very fun enthuisiast cars.

Good Luck....

 

Very well put, and thank you for your thoughts.

 

Even though it's not on my radar for purchase right now, I've been watching the R saga actively via the most active VW forum in the world (cough cough Vortex), and a couple things said here just aren't correct.
Weirdly, VW execs from the very start said there would be 5000 for the US, but apparently none of the official press releases specifically say that, but that is how many MKIV and MKV R32's there were respectively. Almost all people who have ordered an R have committed to MSRP or some discount, there have been only a handful of reports of dealers demanding MSRP+.
Both MKIV (2004) and MKV (2008) R32's were not fast sellers, in fact they lingered on dealer lots for over a year before being sold out. Buzz is that VW is hoping to turn that around with the R but they've been getting their fair share of grief too for prolonging the wait since announcement and general lack of information, i.e. price was just announced a week ago. MKIV R32's have developed an almost cult-like following since then, they still do maintain really high resale for what's now a 7 year old car. The MKV's, not so much. Most blame their heft, their DSG-only, and general lackadaisical feel of them.
The R has been out in the rest of the world for over a year. It's got a better power to weight ratio than the previous R32's and gets much better gas mileage while being faster to boot. And ECU cracking is in full swing in VAG circles, I can think of APR, GIAC, Revo, MTM, just to name a few. For a specific example, APR bought their own US model TT-RS just a month ago and have already tuned it and built an exhaust for it. Not yet for sale but will be shortly.
The thing that endears me to my JCW is its lightweight "flingability." I'm sure the R will have a more solid feel to it and Haldex cars tend to feel more neutral than pure FWD cars. It will be more civilized feeling than the MINI and a bit more practical as far as roominess, etc. The OP is the one that has to decide which of these things is most important to him.

 

I believe it's a well informed comment, as I have owned $35k cars, and well, the MINI doesn't even compare. Its a toy, and was priced as such at one time. Now, BMW is selling them for $35k, and there's more issues with these cars than you can shake a stick at. And, the customer service appears to suck. Just read the forums, I'm not making this stuff up! And I also stated this was my opinion between the 2 cars, so lets stay on track...

 

Nah I think your comment to 95% of the good folks on this forum is worthless to them and will be viewed as such.

Good day sir!

 

Hope this is not to far off track but isn't there a new VW Bug R planned with 265HP. I would think it might be lighter in weight and cost less. A 265HP turbo bug with a little aftermarket tune might be worth consideration. I have only seen the new bug in adds but it looks like a little Porsche has rubbed off on it.

 

[QUOTE=mini4tide;3378659]I believe it's a well informed comment, as I have owned $35k cars, and well, the MINI doesn't even compare. Its a toy, and was priced as such at one time. QUOTE]

Don't really care what you've owned but with stupid comments like the above and the preceeding, you don't do yourself any favors if you want to be taken seriously. Now its a toy, are you serious?

 

Look, I didn't mean to upset anyone, or disrespect anyone. I was just stating my opinion. Sorry if I was out of line. I thought this was a forum for opinions, And I gave it. I think it was misunderstood, so I digress.

 

Out with the bad ...in with the good :-)

 

I came from an Mk IV R32 (REVO Tuned) to my 2011 JCW.
There was some trepidation no doubt when I made the decision.
Loved the R32 - it was a blast to drive and all wheel drive can make even me look like a hero on the twisties or an autocross track.
The R32 was my 5th VoA Product so you can see I was (and am) a VW fan-boy.
The R was not coming when I ordered my 2011 JCW last December.
quality sound really hit it on the head in post 15. The VW salesman (Bought three cars from him) warned me that the R32 would not much fun unless you were at 9/10ths or better and suggested I keep my 20th Anniversary GTI (APR Tuned).
He likened the R32 to a turbo 911 and the GTI to a regular 911. You could use more of the GTI on a day-in, day-out basis. He was correct.
While shopping for the MINI, I went to a monthly meet of the local Mini/MINI club. A couple of the folks in the Club expressed that I might be disappointed moving from an R32 to a MINI.
I think that the MINI does 95% of what I need on a daily basis.
It is smaller than my R32 (won’t hold my mountain bile in the back, etc) but capacity is rarely an issue.
I can have more fun in the MINI at lower speeds than I could in the R32, have better insurance rates, and get better mileage.

 

NA will NEVER see the Beetle R.

 

If you say so, but what make you think that?

BTW the 2012 turbo beetle engine that puts out 200 HP and 207ft/lbs can be modified with a APR turbo kit and tune to produce 322HP and 380FT/lbs for a kit cost of aprox $2500. I think a Beetle R with 265HP and just a tune get you to the same place. I just pull the APR numbers off the APR site but it is the info for the VW 2.0 turbo used in various VW models if I understand correctly. IMO a 322HP 380ft/lbs Beetle with a weight of aprox 3000 lbs might be fun.

 

Thank you AAONMS...It is good to hear about your perspective with the R32 vs the JCW. I appreciate your comments.
What gets me sometimes, is I think back to my APR tuned 2001 Audi S4, and would like to get back to those days. When you look at the Golf R on paper it is very close to the stock spec of the S4 minus about 300lbs.

 

Every car forum will show you the bad things that happen but you rarely hear from the majority that have no issues. I'll go ahead and speak up to say that my $30k 2010 Clubman S feels quite solid in every department, has many options like Nav/Harmon Kardon/sunroof/heated seats, mirrors, windshield washer nozzles. No part of it feels any cheaper than a brand new 3 series and it's never even crossed my mind that I paid anything for a name.

To the OP, what originally sold you on the Mini over the Golf R? I like VW (we own a GLI) but I think if my goal was hp in the high 200s and AWD in a heavier car for it's size then I would have gone to Subaru.

 

To be honest I didn't pay much attention to the R since when I was looking at the JCW their was not an official release date on the R. I wanted a "fun" car to drive again after having a Touareg for so long. Out of the last 6 cars I have had they have all been either BMW,VW, or Audi. I have been very happy with build quality and service with each. I am not interested in just HP numbers. Plus I like the exclusive aspect of the JCW and the R for that matter. Subaru just doesn't do anything for me as far as the design of the exterior and interior, I don't care how much HP they have.

 

Not turbo Beetle, Beetle R. VW won't dilute the GTI sales like that. It's why we won't get the Scirocco or Scirocco R.