I just finished installing the HFS-4 and now I'm trying to get some reasonable fuel trim numbers. Howerton sent the standard Mini jet sizes of .6, .7, & .8, with the corresponding restrictors. After some arm-twisting, I was able to calculate the recommended jet size of .8mm. Never could find the fuel injector capacity ratings - needed for the jet size calculation, so used Howerton's alternate method - (HP * 1.5) instead of FI capacity. After lots of trial and error with adjustments, the best STFT I can get is .88 --- about the same as yours.

Will you share with us the jet size you use, or plan to use for the 20% reading?

 

Sorry for the delay. I think I have a .9mm in there now. In the midrange I sometimes see .77 but at high rpm usually in the upper 80's or low 90's. Next step is the 1.0mm. Also these readings are with 100% meth. What are you using?


Thanks

Ray

 

Hi Ray, I'm starting out with a 50 / 50 mix. My goal is just to provide "cooling & cleaning" to the combustion chamber. Since I've done nothing to the lower engine parts, I believe I'm already pushing the HP limits. Currently working with Alta's Jeff P, via email, to get a WMI AP map. After that's installed, I'm off to his dyno and see about upping the R56 boost limits from 20PSI to something unreal for non JCW engines --- TBD. Had it up to 23+ for a trial run - just to ensure it can be done. SCARRY!

I'll probably save the larger jet size install until after my boost limits are established. Jeff P suggested a .9mm, and Jeff H warns that exceeding .8mm opens up the "scattered engine" possibility --- for me. I tend to go with the Jeff most familiar with my build, driving habits, etc --- Jeff P.

Best of luck with your project. Hope to see your dyno chart soon.

 

Chili, Im in for $5. I just dont see a MINI engine turning 9K, NASCAR engines are custom built from the ground up and they routinely blow up and also get rebuilt every 400 - 600 miles (the checkered flag just dropped). Sorry to be a naggy nellie but my GP engine has forged rods and a nodular iron crank and windage tray for oil control from the factory, and they spun it at 7K for warranty purposes. I bumped up to 7400 and hit that at least 4 to 5 times a year at 185K on the clock, but 9 is mmmmmmm well, maybe once ........... I know mine would do 9 if I had the rev limiter disabled, and then it would fit loosely in a 5 gallon pail. Minus the block, that is .........

 

mrrjm,

I really think what you doing here will put into perspective the ability and quantify the limits of many systems out there and how they work with eachother or don't, for instance I believe with all you have spent on turbo mods, the GPop unit you get back and running will become the most powerful and linear where as it will be much more seamless than the Alta or Garrett units you have used, what stinks is the costs and trial and error you've tested. I also like the statement you've made about the Water/Meth Unit your running and how its as best a cure for the direct injected engine to keep the topside of intake valves clean and flowing their best, while providing an environment to keep optimum boost retard at bay with chemical intercooling as well as alcohol providing octane boost itself with added fuel trim.

Truly enjoy reading your posts and wish you well in your beast, may many unsuspecting rivals fall prey to the animal you have built, may we all learn a little from every builder even if we don't spend a small fortune... the Mini is just a great platform, I only wish the engine was more user friendly and better supported. An aftermarket billet or just aluminum Cylinder Head with Cam's would yield some great numbers at the same boost levels, with improved airflow at low lift's without sacraficing air velocity.... please keep the updates coming

 

MRRJM, after re-reading my earlier post, thats not really the tone I intended. I do stand with my question on 9K but the rest is quite impresive, you deserve kudos for your progress so far, so ........ Kudos. I'm guessing when complete you will prob have the fastest Cooper in the US, or if not Im sure it'd have to be close. I will be watching your progress with great interest as well.

 

Update again. I'm now running the 1.0 injector. No more "super knock" code. I'm going to try to bump the boost just a bit. We have a small crowd going to the drag strip on July 28th. Last time I ran a 13.8 @ 105mph. I'm hoping to be in the low 13's this time around. I think I'm about maxed out with this g-pop turbo. Next step will be the GT28. Which I do have. And I'm going to install the valve springs that Jeff P has. They are good for 9000 rpm. BUT...I don't ever expect to turn that RPM. Maybe 7500-8000 with the GT28 if I can get it tuned right. And if there is any power at that RPM. Many things to consider though. Poorly designed cyl head/timing chain setup & the vacuum pump + High pressure fuel pump are driven off the camshafts. I don't know if they will hold up at that rpm.

"Oldbrokenwind" I talked to both Jeff P and Jeff H there isn't a problem with running and injector over .8mm. The issue is that if your "tune" in heavily dependent on the water injection and there is a failure, and the failsafe isn't set correctly, then you have the scattered engine possibility. In my case the "failsafe" does work!! I suggest going conservative with your tune. This engine is "very" expensive to repair. If you loose a piston it will cost $5-7k unless you can do the work yourself.

If anyone has any questions at all please ask. I know just about anything you need to know as far as the engine, clutch, trans, WM injection, etc.

Ray

 

Ray, curious about a few things
-- what tire are you running since at the track traction is different than on a good street and loss of traction can lead to wheel hop and that damages parts and driveline severely over time?
-- have you flow tested a stock head and if so how much improvement have you seen without needing too aggressive cam lifts, I have not seen much info for improved heads and I'm sure you have searched far and wide?
-- do you have a stock ET/mph for you car in similar conditions?
-- has anyone fitted a real standalone engine management system,many cars such as the Grand National run much better when a standalone takes over control allowing much better performance over the stock setup, I have seen many cars upgrade everything and cheap out on the most important part only to be frustrated and experts at changing head gaskets and not getting the ET or mph desired.

-- how hot was it on this day at the track, could it be on a cooler day you could gain some MPH and ET?
-- another thought, have you added any coatings inside the engine?

Thanks, I'm actually looking to get ahold of a used JCW Head and see what can be done with it. Nothing like hands on testing!!

 

Just get a MCS head, they are the same! I have been saying this for over 3 years now, and still this myth continues.

The factory stock cylinder head is already hugely impressive, it takes real skilled ability to enhance it beyond it's already impressive characteristics.

 

I know you're intentions are good and exciting, you seem willing to push the boundaries, but, before I ask some opening questions, these are questions you should already know the answers to, as they require pre engine build mathematical calculations, and not unknown guessing, expensive trial and error!

Q1: for the ability to turn 7500-8000 RPM what have you done in terms of reciprocating mass inertia balance ? And more importantly, how are you going to control the fuelling/injection time window, with the stock camshafts and timing ? Have you a revised camshaft and timing profile ?

Q2: As you think the stock cylinder head is such a poor design, how do you intend to improve it's characteristics ? And based on what figures ?

I have many more questions for you, but that will do for now, it's all about evolutionary steps, not revolutionary strides!

 

 

I'd take any R56 head to test with, what do you feel would help this head, is it the exhaust side limiting getting all the benefit out of available boost?

Has anyone made a billet head for the Mini?

Just enjoying the tar out of this fun little car, maybe someone just need to add a 2 nd engine in the back and make a dual AWD, just a thought for a purpose built ride! The Blown Hemi has been done so it may be fun with twin engines...

 

And just what are you going to test ?

How would you improve it for daily or dedicated track use ?

Why do you feel there is a limiting factor for building boost ?

Have you seen the ports, throats, valve size and pent roof chamber on this cylinder head ?

Nobody has or will CNC a billet cylinder head.

A knowledgeable understanding of gas flow and thermodynamics will be a step in helping you or anybody understand the complexity of altering and cylinder head in order to gain, it is very very easy to loose any potential gain, from the incorrect removal from any hand or machining of the Aluminum, once the Aluminum material is gone, you can very quickly turn the cylinder head into a sizeable chunk of scrap!

Remember Bigger is not always best!

 

They made a Twini Mini back in 1963!

http://mk1-performance-conversions.c...pics_twini.htm

Dave

 

Yea looking back at this discussion just shows how tenacious it is. I can respect the curiosity and great attitude to blaze a new trail in the R56 world. I think if I were to spend as much time and money, ummm..... ESPECIALLY MONEY, trying to make the Prince engine a high-revving high-horsepower beast I'd be looking at buying a different car entirely. It's cool to be radical but I think I've learned the past couple of years where the fine line that divides practical fun with a endless money pit. An unbelievable amount of fun can be had on the track with good tires, suspension, brakes, and a couple of engine mods with the R56 MCS. I wish the best of luck to the original poster but have a big feeling this is going to be a big disappointment for how much will be invested and what will be gotten out of it.

 

I'm in the process of installing a .9mm jet. Had some contaminated methanol that took out the FAV. Returned it and the small jets / restrictors for exchange. Jeff H was gracious enough to exchange all for the .9 & 1.0mm jets, and there was also his warning about scattered engine possibilities. Now I gotta worry about not flushing out all the contamination.

Another concern is the fail-safe --- my GT28RS is using a manual boost controller and an external BOV, neither of which is compatible with the HFS4, without another piece of hardware. Still need to research this one. Should still have time, as I'm not yet tuned for the WMI system. And, a 50 - 50 mix shouldn't be considered "heavily dependent". I'll be interested in reading how you connect the fail-safe to your Garrett, if you care to share that info.

On to the data logging for Jeff P ---

 

Hi everyone. Sorry for the slow responses. Been really busy this summer. I haven't considered reciprocating mass inertia balance, cams, fuel injection etc because my intention at the moment is not to turn those high rpms. When I'm ready I will ask for help.

As far as the poor design cylinder head I was referring to the timing chain. They seem to stretch at a fairly low mileage. Mine had considerable stretch after 30k miles. Oil changes were done ever 5k.

Since others are asking about the cylinder head. We measured 142cfm on the intake side before port & polish. Afterwards the 165-168cfm. So I think that's about a 15% improvement.

This Saturday is the Drag Strip I'll let everyone know how it goes. After this I think I'm going to start with the GT28 turbo. I may have questions if that is ok

Ray

 

Well saturday was a good day. I beat this guy 5 times. It's a 2012 challenger with a 396 Hemi 6 speed. No problem with the 2012 Nissan 370Z. Took him 6 times.

 

What was your time? Were you running 1/4 or 1/8 mile? Trap Speed?

 

1/4. 13.5@108. Had a lot of launch problems.

 

Damn! What were your 60 ft times like?

Cheers,

Charlie

 

Got slips?

 

Best 60' was 2.1 sec. I made 4 data logs. I'm only getting 15 psi in first gear. Not 28+ like in 3rd-4th. After a 2nd gear burn out the tires would hook but eng eng kept bogging down to 1500. It's was over a hour
Between runs so it was hard to get any kind on consistency. Plus the outside temps were pretty high. 90's. This thing is easily a 12 sec car if I can get the boost up in first gear. I raced a Vette that ran a 12.6. He jumped me big time off the line. I almost caught him be the end of the quarter. I'm on my mobile. I can post slips, more pics, my half a partial video too.

Ray

 

Let me describe my GT28RS installation experience for you - a 2007 hatchback ---
*First of all the turbo to manifold bolt pattern doesn’t match. You need an adapter.
*This adapter causes the top oil line (maybe water, I forget) to be too short.
*Oil return line orientation is critical, to prevent contact with the turbo body, melting, and leaking.
*GT28RS is designed for a 3” exhaust - another adapter, unless included in a kit.
*Air inlet is also 3” dia - about twice the OEM size.
*Air outlet is facing the rear, not the side --- another hose coupling.
*Heat shields won’t fit any more, without serious bending / cutting. I removed all mine.
*GT28RS BOV is external so the ECU wants to be connected to either the OEM BOV (removed from the turbo body) or a 12 ohm resistor (which worked for me). I didn’t want to destroy the usefulness of an OEM turbo. Then, where to tie back the OEM BOV connector / harness, with its new 12 ohm resistor?
*You need to decide on BOV placement - before or after WMI jet. And, will the BOV allow WM into the turbo air inlet, if mounted after the WM jet? Assuming you choose to use a closed BOV system, which is most recommended!
*GT28RS Wastegate is activated with a POSITIVE pressure. Mine was preset to 12psi. OEM uses a vacuum. You’ll need a boost controller, one that’s compatible with the WMI fail-safe, then find a place to mount and connect it. Don’t forget to terminate the unused vacuum line.
*If you want to close the hood, material needs to be removed from the hood structure - to allow for a larger turbo body and possibly a relocated O2 sensor, depending on the chosen downpipe. Remove enough to allow for engine torque at high accel. My lower engine mount bushing inserts didn’t help - there’s still a lot of engine movement / lifting in front.
*Then there’s a new dyno tune required to make this new turbo work properly. If you have a light flywheel, there’s a loss of inertia at low rpm’s (low boost) that destroys launch. A new launch speed of 5500rpm in the AP helped for me, but I’m still a novice driver. Typical launch from Alta’s AP is 3500.
*Turbo-Kits was my supplier and MOST of the parts were included - nothing for air inlet, and one elbow / coupling short for air outlet. Downpipe was catless and designed for the GT28RS, but didn’t bolt to the engine as designed. Had to do some exhaust pipe rework to fit the Alta 3” system.
*Most of the grief was finding hose couplings for routing air in and out of the turbo. Tee fittings for the BOV and OCC were especially tough to find. Still want to replace vinyl tees with metal - cleaner looking. That’s what “work-in-progress” is all about!

Ray, you probably already know most of this. I’m just hoping to discourage others from going this route unless they’re ready for a serious time and money investment.

BTW, I’m hoping you keep us informed on progress, results, etc. Looking good so far.

 

Based on my calculations you are making about ~270WHP with all the work you have put into the car. No offense, I think someone could pull similar numbers with a bolt on K04 hybrid/WM/Tune without a problem. As JCWs can make up to 250WHP/310WTQ from my experience.

Lots of money, but i am still looking for someone to provide worthy results.