mini-t,

At my BMW dealer in California (Crevier BMW) I would also have lousy service if I went through the service department. I happened to buy my last three BMWs from the same salesman and everytime I needed service, all I had to do was go through him. He always got me an appointment when I wanted and ALWAYs had a loaner for me. I did not buy my MINI from Creiver but when I lived in Southern California he would take care of me when I needed something at the dealer.

At BMW dealers it seems your salesperson is the one who will make your ownership experience a pleasant one. The Hawaii MINI owners always rave about how great their buying experience was, however, I never hear about the salesperson helping with the "problems" that you all are having. Why is that? Any thoughts?


>>the last time i had to wait for my car at service, i ended up chatting with an older gentleman who waiting for his 5-series bmw. i guess he knew i was pissed about my car and having to wait when they told me it was "ready" (he was told the same thing). after chatting for about 15 minutes, he told me that his service has been below par also. he was supposed to catch a shuttle which never came to pick him up, ended up having to get a cheapy rental after fighting his service advisor to get him a car to get to work, was then late for work, etc...
>>
>>but he noticed that when certain people rolled in with their more expensive BMW's, they got different treatment including someone opening the door, greeting them by name, having a rental car ready, etc, etc.
>>
>>
>>foldinghalo -- you're lucky that you get a call about your service afterwards. i rec'd 1 phone call after my service experience.....and none thereafter, not even after i purchased my car! i was prepped by my MA with all the 5-star answers but never got to share them b/c they didnt call. too bad for my MA.
>>
>>
>>>>We're owners of both BMW's and a MINI and, unfortunatly, the service experience has been just as pathetic w/ the BMW's as the MINI. It's directly related to the quality of management commitment to customer service - I'm convinced they don't care. Their sales are strong and it seems the majority tolerate the treatment. Good to see Mark's help in getting corporate attention focused on this.
>>

 

DaKineMINI --

you're right, the salespeople (and i speak for myself) havent stepped in to make the service experience a pleasant one. my MA was aka but i hardly talked to him about my car and he no longer works at MINI! however, after all the BS i have been through with the service dept, darrel/sales mgr has been very helpful in making sure that the service side takes care of the problems that come up and that things are done correctly (or at least appear to look correct). i guess the sales and service sides are separate entities and they dont want to step on each others toes?

i think many will agree that the sales and service depts are like night and day. it will be interesting to see what happens once the warranties are up -- will everyone sell their cars? take them to independent mechanics? in either case, any and all mechanics that own MINIs should start learning everything about the car b/c they will make a killing in a few years :smile:

just had a thought --- with all things considered, the MINI is the perfect candidate for a lease vehicle. dammit for me.


>>At BMW dealers it seems your salesperson is the one who will make your ownership experience a pleasant one. The Hawaii MINI owners always rave about how great their buying experience was, however, I never hear about the salesperson helping with the "problems" that you all are having. Why is that? Any thoughts?


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Justin,

Trust me - the sales department was the jewel of the entire process as far as we are concerned. Everybody we have dealt with over there in the MINI showroom has been fantastic, yourself included. You guys and gals have always been available when we've had a problem - you've opened your "office" so to speak for movies, get togethers... we couldn't ask for a more positive experience. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that buying a MINI was the *best* car buying experience we've ever had.

Unfotunately, the service after the sale is what has soured the deal. The sales team continue to be great people. Aka and Darrel have done and tried a lot for us - tried to help us get to the bottom of our problem, run back and forth between departments, etc. It's the other half of the game that I feel is playing way below their level. I realize I said some pretty strong things in my earlier message, but as a customer, I felt like MINI was totally dropping the ball. Not you guys specifically, but further up the "food chain" so to speak. That really hurt. MINI of NA basically treated us like a number... just like they said they wouldn't in all their advertising. It just feels like we got nothing but smoke blown up our butt for our troubles.

-A

 

Play to win! Don't mediate, LITIGATE!

 

mini-t (and Latka, Beast, etal),

So as an "outsider" (bought car from mainland and shipped over) I might as well expect the worst without any MA backing right? UGH! :smile:
>>
>>just had a thought --- with all things considered, the MINI is the perfect candidate for a lease vehicle. dammit for me.
>>
>>

 

Beastmaster -- are any of your cars on warranty still at bmw? or do you take your cars to voytek at bme? how has the service been when you brought one of your many bimmers in?

 

Voytek gets my cars for electrical stuff, Motorwerks gets my cars for other repairs.

I did take my cars to BMW once in a while, but my friends that were Service Advisors left the dealership. Steve and Mark provided good service. It's a whole new crew there, but I've found Tony is a good one that follows up.

 

Beast,

I guess I made the right move in selling my 2001 E46 M3 before moving out here. I was suppose to be outside of the infamous "bearing throwing" build (mine was a July build) but you never know and think of the trouble I would have had at the local dealer (when others are having rough times proving they did not abuse their engines elsewhere).

BTW my new neighbor, whose custom home is almost done, came up to me to talk about my tires/wheels and it ends-up being he is a BMWCCA member from Northern California. He's a pilot for Hawaiian. He also has (or was it had) a 2001 M3 (and other BMWs as well). Wait until he finds out about the horror stories about the local BMW dealer!



>>Voytek gets my cars for electrical stuff, Motorwerks gets my cars for other repairs.
>>
>>I did take my cars to BMW once in a while, but my friends that were Service Advisors left the dealership. Steve and Mark provided good service. It's a whole new crew there, but I've found Tony is a good one that follows up.

 

The dealer can do good work, but right now they are undergoing a major changeover in service. I guess that's why my friends that were SAs left the dealership. I guess there were existing problems in service and that fact was exascerbated by the multitude of cars they sold. Things only got worse when the MINI line was added with an additional 800+ cars that need servicing, plus lots of kinks that need to be worked out of the MINI. It seems that we may be at a low point so the optimistic outlook would be things can only get better!

One thing I do hate is the ubiquitous, "Technician could not duplicate problem". And then when you leave the dealership the problem rears its ugly head!

BTW, those surveys from MINI or BMW are not anonymous. Did you know that your comments are kept on computer file and sent to the dealership? The info is complete with the respondent's name.

 

yeah, they say they're anonymous but they aren't....which is why the motoring advisors prep you when you take delivery of a car so they get good marks. i've only had someone call me once and had an online email survey once following a service.

when i bought my first car (a honda civic in 1997), i filled out the written survey, sent it in, and then was chewed out my salesperson for being honest. the survey got back to him and i guess the manager called him in. so i told him he should've told me beforehand and made sure that he covered all the points that were asked in the survey.


>>
>>BTW, those surveys from MINI or BMW are not anonymous. Did you know that your comments are kept on computer file and sent to the dealership? The info is complete with the respondent's name.

 

I thought it was total BS that my MA told me about getting a survey call, and told me what to say. He even showed me what the survey looked like (in report form) when it gets back to him. I feel like honest feedback is essential to quality service. How will MINI know their true service levels, if we are all told what to say? Maybe that's the problem?

Oh well....I didn't get the call. I'm not sure how honest I would have been, anyways.....I didn't want to burn any bridges or tick anyone off.

 

>>I thought it was total BS that my MA told me about getting a survey call, and told me what to say. He even showed me what the survey looked like (in report form) when it gets back to him. I feel like honest feedback is essential to quality service.

In the best of worlds there would be someone doing an exit poll on every person leaving a business but it isn't practical. The reason why they bother to warn you and coach you is that "Some dealers routinely do the same" so to level the playing field each dealership needs to fight back.

>>How will MINI know their true service levels, if we are all told what to say? Maybe that's the problem?

If the service dept does not deliver and the customers are coached, how far off the mark do you think the customers will fill out the forms? You must deliver the goods if you want the surveys to reflect satisfaction. No amount of coaching will correct for poor service.

I own a Honda and that dealership plays this survey game each time I service the car. Does that highly rated service dept do well? Not really, they make errors like anybody else but I try to keep them honest since they are trying for the best survey result. If something is not right then I have the grounds to complain until I am satisfied. This doesn't cut on the mechanical errors but it does make it seem I have a say in the matter.

>>Oh well....I didn't get the call. I'm not sure how honest I would have been, anyways.....I didn't want to burn any bridges or tick anyone off.

I am always surveyed for my Honda servicing work and I have never been surveyed by MINI or my dealership.

 

MINIhune -- i think keikilee was talking about the post-delivery survey and not a coached survey after servicing which certainly doesn't make sense.

>>>>I thought it was total BS that my MA told me about getting a survey call, and told me what to say. He even showed me what the survey looked like (in report form) when it gets back to him. I feel like honest feedback is essential to quality service.

>>In the best of worlds there would be someone doing an exit poll on every person leaving a business but it isn't practical. The reason why they bother to warn you and coach you is that "Some dealers routinely do the same" so to level the playing field each dealership needs to fight back.
>>
>>>>How will MINI know their true service levels, if we are all told what to say? Maybe that's the problem?
>>
>>If the service dept does not deliver and the customers are coached, how far off the mark do you think the customers will fill out the forms? You must deliver the goods if you want the surveys to reflect satisfaction. No amount of coaching will correct for poor service.
>>
>>I own a Honda and that dealership plays this survey game each time I service the car. Does that highly rated service dept do well? Not really, they make errors like anybody else but I try to keep them honest since they are trying for the best survey result. If something is not right then I have the grounds to complain until I am satisfied. This doesn't cut on the mechanical errors but it does make it seem I have a say in the matter.
>>
>>>>Oh well....I didn't get the call. I'm not sure how honest I would have been, anyways.....I didn't want to burn any bridges or tick anyone off.
>>
>>I am always surveyed for my Honda servicing work and I have never been surveyed by MINI or my dealership.
>>


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mini-t....you are correct.

My assumption was that the tele-survey you get after you buy your MINI is to measure the (customer) service levels as performed by the MA. So when I used that term, I didn't mean "service" as in the service department.

I agree that they need to even the playing field, and if coaching is a standard in this industry.....perhaps the questions are pharased incorrectly. MINI can find out accurate levels of service (not servicing) via surveys without coaching. They just need to structure the questions differently. No one ever remembers "did your MA go over how to use the (enter MINI function here)".....why?.....because we are so damn excited to get in and drive away and experience our new cars. All we are thinking about while taking delivery is.....hurry up.....I'll read the manual later.....gotta take my new MINi for a spin.....will my MA stop talking......good lord, when will this be over.....yeah, that's cool, can I get the keys now?

Maybe I'm taking my minor in marketing too far, but I think over-all the questions are lame....they need to ask about the experience and not the specifics.....and we need not be coached, as it only taints the samples and throws off the statistics.

Sorry to go astray....i guess this really bugs me!

 

Sorry I misunderstood.

When I bought my Honda and my MINI in both cases my salesperson went over "everything" while I was taking delivery.

It does take a long time but you can check each function/feature and look for anything that doesn't work or make sense and ask questions. I have observed when AKA was doing the same thing during delivery for a new MINI.

Aftersale, MINIUSA did not reach me.

 

keikilee -- you aren't the only one! i was so irritated that i was coached about the survey and all that....to the point where i was also shown the list of questions, etc. now it would've funny (depending who you are) if i said no and gave low ratings to everything and then waited to get chewed out. unfortunately, i didnt even have the chance to give a rating as i never got the call!!! :smile: i love business and marketing....


>>mini-t....you are correct.
>>
>>My assumption was that the tele-survey you get after you buy your MINI is to measure the (customer) service levels as performed by the MA. So when I used that term, I didn't mean "service" as in the service department.
>>
>>I agree that they need to even the playing field, and if coaching is a standard in this industry.....perhaps the questions are pharased incorrectly. MINI can find out accurate levels of service (not servicing) via surveys without coaching. They just need to structure the questions differently. No one ever remembers "did your MA go over how to use the (enter MINI function here)".....why?.....because we are so damn excited to get in and drive away and experience our new cars. All we are thinking about while taking delivery is.....hurry up.....I'll read the manual later.....gotta take my new MINi for a spin.....will my MA stop talking......good lord, when will this be over.....yeah, that's cool, can I get the keys now?
>>
>>Maybe I'm taking my minor in marketing too far, but I think over-all the questions are lame....they need to ask about the experience and not the specifics.....and we need not be coached, as it only taints the samples and throws off the statistics.
>>
>>Sorry to go astray....i guess this really bugs me!

 

minihune....I do believe that all of the MA's do a very thorough job going through everything.....as a matter of fact, I think it was a 45 minute demo. The problem I see is the survey questions......they don't capture the right data necessary to depict a positive, negative or neutral consumer buying experience.

mini-t.....you love business and marketing???

 

Just to let you all know, I did get the call from MINI of NA. I gave overall high marks, but complained about one of the forms MINI of HI wanted me to sign, waiving my three day right-to-refuse-the-sale period. That "three-days-to-change-your-mind" is mandated by state law, and I'm not sure it's even legal to ask people to waive that right, and I mentioned this when I answered the phone survey. MINI of HI was made aware of my answers and I believe they called me about it, and I ended up discussing it with them at least twice, one of those times with Darrel (sp).

Darrel insisted that they were required by law to provide the waiver-of-your-rights form. I never managed to get across my point that I was objecting to the dealership asking me to waive my rights ... he was acting like the form was informing me of my rights, but it wasn't!!! I said the form looked fishy (it was not an official looking form, just something that had been typed up and photocopied a lot) and I think it made the dealership look bad to ask people to sign it... and I'm not sure if it would hold up in a court of law if someone decided to dispute it.

Strangely enough, a few weeks AFTER all this, I got a letter from the MA who sold me my car, Bill, and in it he flat out told me to answer with all fives when I was called by MINI of NA. The letter had a desperate feel to it, and I found out a while later that Bill had been fired. I'd already gotten the impression that Bill was not liked at MINI of HI (although I thought he was a good MA), and I guess he saw the writing on the wall, and was making a last ditch effort to keep his job.

Well, that's my experience... a little strange, but overall it went okay for me.

MINIangelD

 

I just hope that they can straighten things out over there. My Pop has owned BMWs all his life, and I love everything from old 2800s and 2002s to the newest M3s and Z8s. This whole experience has left such a sour taste in our mouth that I seriously doubt we would even contemplate buying a car which required service at the MINI / BMW Hawaii dealership.

Oh well - enough of all this. The '66 Cooper S is fun, and I'm hoping I can find a good home for the '71.

 

Welcome back, MINIangelD!! Hope that your trip was really great & that Lucy is in top form

 

Thanks erik808 ... I had a good trip, and Lucy is as perky as ever. :smile:

MINIangelD

 

I completely side with Latka on his frustration to have what seems to be a simple but extremely annoying problem fixed correctly the very first time. I think the dealer's service side is an absolute mess they don't seem to know what really goes on in those service bays.

Now, let me plat Devil's advocate here....After 5 or 6 visits, the dealer finally found the problem with he shorted oil light cable. Seems to me electrical gremlins such as this are not very easy to find and locate (Again correct me if I am wrong). Anyway, the service dept finally found the problem and fixed it for good. So the dealer complied with the terms of the vehicle's limited warranty to repair or replace any part of it due to manufacturer error or defects in materials and workmanship. Aside from the incident with the Oil Light, I didn't see about any other serious problems with the car. It seems your MCS otherwise runs reliably day in and day out.

You are furious with the way the dealer handled your repair claim and their inability to pinpoint and track down the problem. Their attitude was nasty to say the least throught the whole process.


The end result is that the car is fixed under the terms of your warranty, but you have bowed to never purchase another mINI or BMW ever again, which is fine. However, I don't see how can you "Lemon' a car that has been repaired properly. Also you can't sue BMW over the repair because there was not a breach of warranty coverage in thier part. While I understand the aggravation and inconvenien in bringign the car in for 6 times in a row, I am sure you never had to pay a penny for the repair attempts.

Now you feel that MINI should compensate for your disgust by giving you a $5K JCW package upgrade for free? that is where I am having a problem with your argument. While I don't disagree with the principle behind your expectation for compensation, I think it is unfair to set a precedent where:

1) Customer car has a problem
2) Customer brings ca in for repair (1 or 10 times)
3) Dealer repairs vehicle under terms of limited warranty contract
4) Customer is unhappy with dealer treatment throught the ordeal, so he requests a $5K frebbie for his car to compensate for the aggravation.

If MINI in the end gives you a free JCW upgrade for your '02 MCS, then they have opened the door to give a free $5K upgrade to every disgruntled MINI owner in the United States. My wife's '02 Cooper CVT had peeling interior door panel trim tubes. We took the car to the dealer and they insisted that instead of replacing the door panel trim, they would have an exterior auto interior company refinished them. It took them 3 to 4 tries to get the driver's side door panel properly matched. this was an aggravation as well. Car spent 2 weeks at the dealership waiting for the driver's door panel to be re-done. Finally they got it right. Yes I was fuming mad.

Should I have requested a free Cooper S upgrade? or a JCW upgrade for my '04 MCS that I was picking up that very same day? As much as I would have liked to get any of these frebbies, it was still not right to ask for them because the dealer never breached the warranty and I never paid a penny for those door panels.

Rest assured that if you get your free JCW package upgrade, I will out a call tomorrow morning to MINIUSA also demanding my free JCW upgrade due to the aggravation to get those door panels in my wife's Cooper correctly done. I have 2 MINIs, both purchased brand new from the same dealer in a 12 month time span. So I guess I have equal or more leverage than you do.


Don't get me wrong. It just makes me a bit mad when people demand exceptional treatment and their cars have been fixed properly under warranty. this is like the McDonald's law suit involving burns from a cup of coffee and a $1 million dollar award. Sometimes we want more than what we really deserve, follow me?

 

Ditto Cooper4us-well said-Sorry you had such a bad time with your dealer.

This is why we have a warranty on our products,unfortunatly sometimes they have to be used.

Blame the dealer not the car.

 

>>Don't get me wrong. It just makes me a bit mad when people demand exceptional treatment and their cars have been fixed properly under warranty. this is like the McDonald's law suit involving burns from a cup of coffee and a $1 million dollar award. Sometimes we want more than what we really deserve, follow me?

I don't think Latka was asking for a "free" JCW kit. I think Latka was just asking for a discount or something to compensate for the amount of time it took them to fix the problem. Personally, I think it's fair to ask for some sort of discount. If you buy a product you expect it to work. In addition, I don't see how this is the same as the McDonald's lawsuit. In that situation the person, supposedly put the coffee on their lap while they were driving. At which point it was reasonable to assume that the coffee could spill and burn them. However, in Latka's instance it's not reasonable to assume that after spending several thousand dollars that they should expect to spend a significant amount of time returning to the dealer to get a "defect" fixed. This was a problem caused by poor craftmanship. Me personally, if someone askes me to be someplace for a significant amount of time, I'd expect them to pay me for my time. I'm sure others will feel differently. But, this is just my opinion...

 

jwhcars - true about blame the dealer, not the car. However, unlike the rest of our counterparts in the mainland US, Hawaii only has one dealer so we do not have other options. Driving to another dealer for warranty or service work is not an option. It's worse for people on the outer islands that own MINIs. There is no dealer support on the outer islands, except for the Maui store, so those owners have to ship their cars in for work. A one way trip via barge can cost the owner $300+.

As for Latka's frustration, I hear him. If I had to bill MoH for my time spent bringing my mother's car in time and time again for repair, it would be rather high as my rate for billable hours is $xxx.

I believe Latka was asking for a discount on the JCW package, maybe at dealer cost, but hopefully not free. If that were true, with my time spent on my 1st MINI and my mom's car, I should get mom's car replaced and an extra MINI to boot!

For an interesting read on another BMW dealership and how they treated one of their clients after crashing HIS M3, read this thread. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49291

Luckily our dealership isn't this bad, but cars have come back damaged, or not repaired correctly. https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...c=17326&48

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